Thank you Sshaffer, the woodman is exactly what I was looking for with a price that is reasonable

Now all I have to do is wait! Just ordered a woodman arms patriot G3 in .40 cal. 20 weeks back ordered, next year I should have one heckuva gun for muzzle loading season.

this is worth the watch

they break then down into 3 tiers
traditional flint and side lock percussion cap

Modern inline most commonly 209 ignition

then High performance , which tends to use a partial case that holds a large rifle primer and you use a we

the high performance are getting to be almost a cartridge rifle in accuracy and ignition and cleaning as many use the smokless powder or blackhorn 209

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYjqUhvPoYY

Love my nitrofire/firestick.Very accurate.Easy to clean.Awsesome muzzleloader.

Before I ordered I talked to Mark at woodman arms, he said the g3 .40 cal will push a 250 grain bullet 2900 fps and be capable to 300-400 yards. He also said he could build a custom gun off a Remington 700 that would do double that but I did not want the extra weight and bulk that would come with that.

The load mark shoots from his .40 cal is 80 grains of varget (smokeless powder) a veggie wad and 250 grain Parker match bullet which he said is "devasting on deer"

Cva accura v2. Mineis about 15 years old. The stock was so sticky when I took it out of the safe this year it would stick to your hand. Called cva. They said yes there was a problem with some and sent me a new stock. Great, accurate rifles and good customer service

I really wanted smokeless, being able to leave a gun loaded all season and not foul up and being able to shoot multiple times with no fouling is a major advantage. I've heard of guys shooting 250 shots over multiple years with no problems

I'm glad you found what you wanted

glad to hear you found what you wanted

I am still using holy black FFFg
and full bore lead conics I don't need the range I seldom can see over 125 yards

We own some land in the Praries of MN and are in a slug gun or muzzleloader only zone, this gun should be capable of 300 yards consistently and I can use it for about a month a year.

that is the stupidity of the slug only garbage , we have found enough ways around it through technology

I am running sabot slugs in a 20ga with a scope and get out to that 125 fine
I ran a muzzle loader at point to do the same
and I run a 300 blackout pistol at times as WI is shotgun or pistol but not Pistol caliber carbine which is dumb but it is an old law , that is held onto on a township by township basis.
technically the entire state is rifle now but townships can say no rifles but then it is just the old shotgun and pistol or muzzle loader.
pistols keep people under 18 from hunting with them and muzzle loaders keep you to one round per barrel.
so in a way it keeps people from loading up a 300winmag semi auto and mag dumping at deer , not like those are that common either.

they found reports of stray rounds and property damage went down significantly when Green County went rifle , the sheriff was concerned at first then found , when people can actually hit the deer at 130-175 yards with the first round they didn't dump the magazine of slugs trying to lob them in.
that rifles were given the respect that people didn't give shotgun slugs.

a 12ga slug is still moving at 400 yards when you aim 4 feet over a deer's back you just only have a degree of idea where it is going , people think once they can't control it to keep it on a target it must be falling into the dirt, that isn't actually the case they are still trucking , just not hitting where you wanted