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Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: danny clifton] #8321831
01/23/25 07:10 PM
01/23/25 07:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
Idaho
B
bearcat2 Offline
trapper
bearcat2  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
Idaho
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Dead horse dead deer sure get ate faster than dead beef most of the time. Carcass piles of coyotes get multiple bald eagles but not much else. O'Gorman wrote coyotes like to visit dead relatives and sets made on likely travel routes are good. Not been my experience. Not as many on a dead horse or deer say. Not even close. Beavers are good. Everything shows up to eat a beaver pile. Coons, a few birds same with skunks and possums. Most baits are spiced up with other stuff. Straight bobcat carcass seems to attract mostly birds but spiced up seems to be a trapper preferred bait. Even for cats though I think bobcats are not cannibals'. Have had lions kill a trapped bobcat a couple times and both times some was ate. Had a coyote ate one time. May have been other coyotes (Wayne Derrick thought so and it very well could be) I suspect it was a lion. Collared lion wandered into west KS some years ago and one of the biologists that was monitoring it said it ate a lot of coyotes.

Predators most undeniably have preferred prey species. Availability and health of the predator also come into play. Have not had a big rabbit population here in awhile but bobcats seem to do fine killing packrats.

I know I am rambling but not all meat bases IMO are equal value to a trapper.

I once killed a bobcat that had a Very full belly. So I cut it open to see what it had been eating. It had eaten another bobcat! Including at least part of the head, it had swallowed the mask (face skin) whole and it was still intact in its belly. I seen where a lion killed a coyote a couple years ago, the lion had kittens and I'm not sure if the coyote was after the kittens or just trying to horn in on the kill, but the female ran it down and killed it, but didn't eat any of it.

Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: dill-trapper] #8322225
01/24/25 09:18 AM
01/24/25 09:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,966
SW Pa
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Bob Jameson Offline
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Bob Jameson  Offline
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SW Pa
I always cut open the stomachs of predators to examine the contents. It reveals the facts of their most recent meals and also shows some remains of other prey species that haven't completely digested as of yet such as small bones, hair and skulls from small rodents/packrats.

Pack rats, cottontails and small bird and turkey feathers I have found within the same bobcat stomach contents at times in Kansas.

One interesting fact I learned by doing stomach content analysis is how many had a very full to a gorged stomach. Leading me to the conclusion that most of these predators weren't caught due to being hungry.

I wonder what the reasoning was for this intrepretation.? Opportunity, Greed, Curiosity, all the above ?

Another observation is how large of a mass of meat/hair sticks, small stones and pine needles were found within those swallowed masses of meat.

I have found many bobcats/coyotes stomachs had some extremely large sections of flesh/hair/sticks, stones etc.. Some the size of a soft ball still intact and some 8 -10" long sections of tissue/hair/bone and what ever was stuck to the meat that was native "ground cover material" to the kill site.

This info gave me specfic areas that these predators were hunting and some of their preferred areas to score a kill.

Flesh, hair and bone just bit, ripped and torn from the prey animal and swallowed down very quickly it seems. Not much chewing indicated of the food at all. Just seems they killed the animal, tore it apart as quickly as they could and down the hatch it went.

That would suggest to me their fear or concern that another predator may come along and attempt to steal its kill. So it needed to eat as quickly as possible at least in my evaluation. Maybe others would have another theory.

Larger predators like lions many times prefer to drag their prey off to a more somewhat secluded area for feeding on its kill.

Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: dill-trapper] #8322243
01/24/25 09:31 AM
01/24/25 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,563
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
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williamsburg ks
[Linked Image]

NM not KS

Last edited by danny clifton; 01/24/25 09:32 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: dill-trapper] #8322246
01/24/25 09:34 AM
01/24/25 09:34 AM
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 160
Pennsylvania
R
RegularJoe Offline
trapper
RegularJoe  Offline
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 160
Pennsylvania
I have never opened an empty K9 stomach either, I doubt they ever go hungry here. I would bet mange kills way more than starvation.

Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: dill-trapper] #8322247
01/24/25 09:36 AM
01/24/25 09:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,563
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,563
williamsburg ks
IMO that hurry up before something else comes along is why coyotes in KS are braver than states with lower numbers. Some of course are spooky but going after numbers it does not make sense to take all the care it does in high pressure states with gmen on every corner.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: dill-trapper] #8322253
01/24/25 09:43 AM
01/24/25 09:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,563
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,563
williamsburg ks
RegularJoe, they dont get dental care. Starvation is rarely a problem. Arthritis, and bad teeth are the number one cause of natural death IMO. In winter arthritis can starve one and tooth infection is often fatal if the tooth wont come out. have caught quite a few with hardly any teeth left but they survive.

[Linked Image]
This poor devil stayed alive by burrowing into the hay in a stackyard and eating silage. It was frozen when I found it on a daily check.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: dill-trapper] #8322280
01/24/25 10:22 AM
01/24/25 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 160
Pennsylvania
R
RegularJoe Offline
trapper
RegularJoe  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: May 2022
Posts: 160
Pennsylvania
No dental care? Lol. That is a sad looking dog for sure. Arthritus without a good wood stove to cuddle would kill anybody.

Re: Making lure/bait from muskrat [Re: Bob Jameson] #8322295
01/24/25 10:38 AM
01/24/25 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 954
Georgia
sportsman94 Offline
trapper
sportsman94  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 954
Georgia
Originally Posted by Bob Jameson
I always cut open the stomachs of predators to examine the contents. It reveals the facts of their most recent meals and also shows some remains of other prey species that haven't completely digested as of yet such as small bones, hair and skulls from small rodents/packrats.

Pack rats, cottontails and small bird and turkey feathers I have found within the same bobcat stomach contents at times in Kansas.

One interesting fact I learned by doing stomach content analysis is how many had a very full to a gorged stomach. Leading me to the conclusion that most of these predators weren't caught due to being hungry.

I wonder what the reasoning was for this intrepretation.? Opportunity, Greed, Curiosity, all the above ?

Another observation is how large of a mass of meat/hair sticks, small stones and pine needles were found within those swallowed masses of meat.

I have found many bobcats/coyotes stomachs had some extremely large sections of flesh/hair/sticks, stones etc.. Some the size of a soft ball still intact and some 8 -10" long sections of tissue/hair/bone and what ever was stuck to the meat that was native "ground cover material" to the kill site.

This info gave me specfic areas that these predators were hunting and some of their preferred areas to score a kill.

Flesh, hair and bone just bit, ripped and torn from the prey animal and swallowed down very quickly it seems. Not much chewing indicated of the food at all. Just seems they killed the animal, tore it apart as quickly as they could and down the hatch it went.

That would suggest to me their fear or concern that another predator may come along and attempt to steal its kill. So it needed to eat as quickly as possible at least in my evaluation. Maybe others would have another theory.

Larger predators like lions many times prefer to drag their prey off to a more somewhat secluded area for feeding on its kill.


I dont cut open many bellies, but occasionally I find a big tom cat who is especially round and curiosity gets the best of me. I always assumed the sticks, pine straw, grass, and dirt I found in the bellies was done when they were in the trap. It never occured to me that it could/would be from their last meal. Thanks for posting that insight and getting my gears turning

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