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Guiding canine sets #8286756
12/17/24 07:51 PM
12/17/24 07:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 166
Pennsylvania
J
JesseA Offline OP
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JesseA  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
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Pennsylvania
Was curious how hard everyone else guides on their canine sets, more specifically flat sets and such. Finally got some sets out the last couple days and have already missed several canines, seems they're stepping everywhere but on the pan, have not connected yet. Was running into the same issue last season. Obviously I know that misses are going to happen, it's part of the game, but I feel my visit to catch ratio is way down. So, how hard does everyone else guide their sets? Pictures would be awesome if you have them. Ive always been under the impression that too much guiding can really spook coyotes, so I've always tried to keep sets more open, but wondering if that is doing more harm than good

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8286779
12/17/24 08:01 PM
12/17/24 08:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 45,473
Northern Maine
Bruce T Online content
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Bruce T  Online Content
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Northern Maine
A pebble here and there or small clump of dirt.Helps if your trap bed right where the trap is is slightly lower then the surrounding area.


#1 goal=Trap a wolverine
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8286786
12/17/24 08:08 PM
12/17/24 08:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,787
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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SNIPERBBB  Offline
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Rodney,Ohio
In sod ground I try to place sets so I can use the big grass clumps as natural guides. If I put anything there to guide the foot, I prefer to use either droppings or something that's gonna hurt if they step on it

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8286790
12/17/24 08:11 PM
12/17/24 08:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,799
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
I don't do much guiding, maybe a pine cone or a single small stick or stone if I think it is necessary. But if there is guiding already there naturally, I like to dig my trap bed where there is already a rock, root, etc. naturally there as guiding, without placing anything myself. I do a lot of trapping in the snow, and you just can't guide much there, you just need to do your best to place the trap where they are going to put their foot. And yeah, I like to have the pan be the low spot, as long as that is where they are going to want to step anyways. Of course you have to watch that, so that water doesn't puddle there and freeze a plate over your trap.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8286800
12/17/24 08:22 PM
12/17/24 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,641
SD
Boone Liane Offline
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Boone Liane  Offline
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Guide them as much as they’ll let you.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8286932
12/17/24 10:19 PM
12/17/24 10:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,970
West Central MN
20scout Offline
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20scout  Offline
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West Central MN
Try a step down set. Some guys hate'm but they have their place.


Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8286985
12/18/24 01:53 AM
12/18/24 01:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,298
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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The Beav  Offline
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Wisconsin
I do some face guiding. Where a critters nose goes so dose Its feet


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: Bruce T] #8287018
12/18/24 05:41 AM
12/18/24 05:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 166
Pennsylvania
J
JesseA Offline OP
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JesseA  Offline OP
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Bruce T
A pebble here and there or small clump of dirt.Helps if your trap bed right where the trap is is slightly lower then the surrounding area.

That is one thing I have not been doing. I've been keeping them as level as possible to prevent water puddling, but keeping the pan lower definitely sounds like it's worth a try

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287078
12/18/24 07:35 AM
12/18/24 07:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,856
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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Shakeyjake  Offline
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Manitoba
John Heart was brought in to put on a wolf trapping workshop here. It’s geared more towards summer predation trapping, but he blocks heavily. He kept saying “I know all you coyote trappers are cringing right now”…lol


Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287115
12/18/24 08:18 AM
12/18/24 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,310
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
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Y

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Posts: 11,310
Marion Kansas
Picking a spot with natural guiding is a great start.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: Shakeyjake] #8287159
12/18/24 09:12 AM
12/18/24 09:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,799
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
Originally Posted by Shakeyjake
John Heart was brought in to put on a wolf trapping workshop here. It’s geared more towards summer predation trapping, but he blocks heavily. He kept saying “I know all you coyote trappers are cringing right now”…lol

That's a common theme from a lot of good wolf trappers, you can guide wolves much more heavily than coyotes. I've heard plenty of them say that. I didn't used to use any guiding, I've gotten to using some light guiding but still can't get myself to block in a wolf set like some do.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287300
12/18/24 12:29 PM
12/18/24 12:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 442
Alaska
A
AK Timber Tramp Offline
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AK Timber Tramp  Offline
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Alaska
I don't do much guiding, if I do I try to keep everything as natural as possible

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287339
12/18/24 01:28 PM
12/18/24 01:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,617
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
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Coldspring Texas
…. Offset to where you see the majority of the tracks on your misses


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287353
12/18/24 01:52 PM
12/18/24 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,310
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
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Marion Kansas
I also think doing a good job of blending your trap bed in helps

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: Shakeyjake] #8287400
12/18/24 03:07 PM
12/18/24 03:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,273
Northern Mn
rick olson Offline
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rick olson  Offline
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Northern Mn
I know John Hart real well,you can guide coyotes do it naturally,John has caught 100's of mature big male coyotes while trapping wolves.Some might refuse blocked in sets if so change it,blending is very important in coyote trapping up here.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: Yes sir] #8287446
12/18/24 04:35 PM
12/18/24 04:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 45,473
Northern Maine
Bruce T Online content
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Bruce T  Online Content
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Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Yes sir
I also think doing a good job of blending your trap bed in helps

and making your trap bed as small as possible


#1 goal=Trap a wolverine
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287461
12/18/24 05:00 PM
12/18/24 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,298
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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The Beav  Offline
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Wisconsin
I would rather have a 2or 3-foot sized trap bed. I don't like small unblended trap beds I don't what to pinpoint that trap.
And large trap beds have lots of eye appeal.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287525
12/18/24 06:23 PM
12/18/24 06:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 166
Pennsylvania
J
JesseA Offline OP
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JesseA  Offline OP
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Pennsylvania
So on my flat sets I do always try to blend and make as small of a trap bed as possible, and they are bedded solid as I can get them in peat moss. Gonna try what some of you suggested and do some subtle guiding with either small dirt clods or very small sticks and see how that works

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: The Beav] #8287588
12/18/24 07:58 PM
12/18/24 07:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,641
SD
Boone Liane Offline
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Boone Liane  Offline
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Originally Posted by The Beav
I would rather have a 2or 3-foot sized trap bed. I don't like small unblended trap beds I don't what to pinpoint that trap.
And large trap beds have lots of eye appeal.



Eye appeal isn’t always a good thing.

Sometimes, it’s the LAST thing you want.






Small trap beds are nice when the grounds real hard too.

Last edited by Boone Liane; 12/18/24 07:59 PM.
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: 20scout] #8287592
12/18/24 08:02 PM
12/18/24 08:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,641
SD
Boone Liane Offline
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Boone Liane  Offline
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Originally Posted by 20scout
Try a step down set. Some guys hate'm but they have their place.



Micro topography can also be used to get a coyote to not step somewhere.

Not many coyotes here will step down a great deal, especially something like a trench or trenched in dirt hole.

But you can use that to get them to step somewhere else.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287630
12/18/24 08:49 PM
12/18/24 08:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,799
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
I don't want any eye appeal on a flat set. If I can see where the trap is, or even that there is a set there when I'm done, I did something wrong. The only eye appeal I have at a flat set is possibly a turd, a white bone like a T-bone might be okay, but I haven't made a T-bone set in a couple years.

Now on a dirthole, eye appeal and fresh dirt could be a good thing.

By eye appeal I mean anything I do, I do look for a rock, tree, bush, etc. that catches my eye to use for my backing or scent post. I am looking for something that will stand out to a canine as a good spot to mark, but I want it there naturally, I don't place it myself.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: bearcat2] #8287697
12/18/24 11:04 PM
12/18/24 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,410
Custer Co, Idaho
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sneaky Offline
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sneaky  Offline
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Posts: 1,410
Custer Co, Idaho
Originally Posted by bearcat2
I don't want any eye appeal on a flat set. If I can see where the trap is, or even that there is a set there when I'm done, I did something wrong. The only eye appeal I have at a flat set is possibly a turd, a white bone like a T-bone might be okay, but I haven't made a T-bone set in a couple years.

Now on a dirthole, eye appeal and fresh dirt could be a good thing.

By eye appeal I mean anything I do, I do look for a rock, tree, bush, etc. that catches my eye to use for my backing or scent post. I am looking for something that will stand out to a canine as a good spot to mark, but I want it there naturally, I don't place it myself.

Then it snows two feet deep and it doesn't matter anyways lol


Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand
Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287705
12/18/24 11:37 PM
12/18/24 11:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,799
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
Two feet? Piker! I had traps that I dug out last year where the hole digging down to the trap was deeper than I am tall... and those were snow sets, not traps set in dirt.

Not a problem so far this year, I didn't have two feet anywhere on my line except where I tried to go over the top marten trapping, before this warm front and rain. Was in Lewiston today and it was 59 there! Bet my snow sets will need redone in the morning.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287837
12/19/24 07:56 AM
12/19/24 07:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 588
Communist State Of New York
Archeryguy Offline
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Communist State Of New York
I've guided using deer droppings at flat and blind sets. Pretty natural in these woods.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287950
12/19/24 10:45 AM
12/19/24 10:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 240
South Louisiana
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Trappeur Gunny Offline
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South Louisiana
The older I get the less guiding I use for coyotes. I used to get detailed on guiding, but I started to notice something that changed my mind. If I had to reset and was in a hurry I would bed the trap and get going. I would catch. When I took my time with detailed guiding I would catch.My catch ratio is the same no matter if I guide or not. For me it comes down to making a set that will naturally guide the animal and making a set that the animal wants to work. I look at where I'm at and try to set how I feel the coyote will work the set. If you make a set that has eye appeal to the coyote and use the correct bait/urine/glad/bait for time of year you are setting, I feel you really don't need a lot of guiding as the animal will commit because you are hitting all of the checks in the box. Do I teach guiding, yes! It is another tool a young trapper can use, but in the long run it will not make or break a set.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8287959
12/19/24 11:07 AM
12/19/24 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,310
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Yes sir  Offline
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Marion Kansas
Eye appeal may have its place but around here i think it will scare more coyotes than it will catch in most situations. My opinion is you catch coyotes by their nose not their eyes.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: Trappeur Gunny] #8288021
12/19/24 01:07 PM
12/19/24 01:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 585
GA
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canebrake Offline
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GA
Originally Posted by Trappeur Gunny
The older I get the less guiding I use for coyotes. I used to get detailed on guiding, but I started to notice something that changed my mind. If I had to reset and was in a hurry I would bed the trap and get going. I would catch. When I took my time with detailed guiding I would catch.My catch ratio is the same no matter if I guide or not. For me it comes down to making a set that will naturally guide the animal and making a set that the animal wants to work. I look at where I'm at and try to set how I feel the coyote will work the set. If you make a set that has eye appeal to the coyote and use the correct bait/urine/glad/bait for time of year you are setting, I feel you really don't need a lot of guiding as the animal will commit because you are hitting all of the checks in the box. Do I teach guiding, yes! It is another tool a young trapper can use, but in the long run it will not make or break a set.

I agree. Sometimes I use a small dirt clod or something where I don't want the coyote to step or I might put a long weed stem to the side where I don't want him to work it from. But if he's interested, he's going to work the set anyway. I haven't seen where subtle guiding makes much of a difference.

I've seen some trappers make coyote sets that resemble bobcat sets with all the unnatural guiding and blocking. Not my thing.

Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: JesseA] #8288967
12/20/24 05:59 PM
12/20/24 05:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,503
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline
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TEJAS  Offline
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South Texas Brush Country


Originally Posted by JesseA
Seems they're stepping everywhere but on the pan, have not connected yet. Was running into the same issue last season.

Pictures would be awesome if you have them.


Without seeing your sets it’s hard to offer good advice that might help you with your problem Jesse.

Guiding is a poor substitute for well blended sets and good pan placement.

There is quite a difference between multiple misses and outright avoidance.

It’s possible the set pattern is standing out, or your pan placement needs a little adjustment.

Posting up photos of your sets might help us steer you in the right direction.

Good Luck in the coming days!



Re: Guiding canine sets [Re: TEJAS] #8289055
12/20/24 07:45 PM
12/20/24 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 166
Pennsylvania
J
JesseA Offline OP
trapper
JesseA  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 166
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by TEJAS


Originally Posted by JesseA
Seems they're stepping everywhere but on the pan, have not connected yet. Was running into the same issue last season.

Pictures would be awesome if you have them.


Without seeing your sets it’s hard to offer good advice that might help you with your problem Jesse.

Guiding is a poor substitute for well blended sets and good pan placement.

There is quite a difference between multiple misses and outright avoidance.

It’s possible the set pattern is standing out, or your pan placement needs a little adjustment.

Posting up photos of your sets might help us steer you in the right direction.

Good Luck in the coming days!



I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow of sets if I remember and post them.

I don't believe it to flat out avoidance, but it may very well be pan placement, as the is something I have always struggled with since I've moved away from leggetts step down dirthole and started running more flat sets.

I can say on several sets, they worked the sets pretty hard, dug out the bait and lure, tracks all over the pattern, just didn't hit the pan, and this was not a one off instance, this has happened fairly regularly the last 2 years.

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