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satan was known as the great deceiver. he wouldve appeared to eve as a man, not a snake. this theory explains Gods disdain for cain, and why he isnt mentioned in adams lineage. the theory of the 6th day creation explains the existence of civilization on all continents at the same time, explains the source of the different races, explains where cains wife came from, etc. as i said above, this is another theory.
fruit is a term that can refer to most anything. the fruit of my long lines were mink, not apples. the fruits of my shop work is metal products.
He would have appeared as a man? Distain for cain? The 6th day creation theory explains the existence of civilizations (on all continents at the same time ? ETC. Is there any scripture to back any of this other theory. It seems like there's alot of reading between the lines with vivid imagination.
Last edited by Giant Sage; 07/01/2504:41 PM. Reason: Spell
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give some good points of reference IMO on Genesis 3.
I don't know that much of this is something that can be backed by scripture specifically; as I see it as rather a translation thing. The Hebrew Word for Nachash can be a noun, a verb, and an adjective. The root word meaning of Nachash I believe is the issue at hand. I am not saying this is sound doctrine, but I think it is certainly worth considering.
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1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
Some scholars think Naamah was Noah's wife. That would mean we all are related thru Grandma Noah and thus to Cain too.
Of course in those days many didn't think the women had any thing to do with the reproduction of man other than to act as a incubator for mans seed. They couldn't comprehend that a child had traits of both parents.
Yepper Foxpaw. The Book of Jasher clearly says that Noah chose Naamah the daughter of Enoch to be his wife. I give street credit to the Book of Jasher as it is referenced in the Hebrew Bible.
What I still can't get solid in my mind is the lineages of Cain and Seth. The names are nearly identical, so which one are we talking about? I know the answer is there, but I have not taken the time to do a hard dive on it. Nor have a found anyone else that has.
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as i said, AGAIN, another theory. ancient civilizations appeared along similar time lines, all across the planet, according to archaeological dating. (human dispersal by God on the 6th day.) satan taking the form of a man and coming into eve, is no different than his fallen angels mating with mortal women, and creating the nephilim race. God always favored abel over cain. what was His reason. do i have to say it again? a theory, nothing more. if you have a problem with any of this, find out who originated this theory, and take it up with them.
as i said, AGAIN, another theory. ancient civilizations appeared along similar time lines, all across the planet, according to archaeological dating. (human dispersal by God on the 6th day.) satan taking the form of a man and coming into eve, is no different than his fallen angels mating with mortal women, and creating the nephilim race. God always favored abel over cain. what was His reason. do i have to say it again? a theory, nothing more. if you have a problem with any of this, find out who originated this theory, and take it up with them.
It's very obvious why God prefers Abel to Cain. Abel was obedient, Cain was arrogant. They were brothers from the same father. That's what the text clearly says.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
as i said, AGAIN, another theory. ancient civilizations appeared along similar time lines, all across the planet, according to archaeological dating. (human dispersal by God on the 6th day.) satan taking the form of a man and coming into eve, is no different than his fallen angels mating with mortal women, and creating the nephilim race. God always favored abel over cain. what was His reason. do i have to say it again? a theory, nothing more. if you have a problem with any of this, find out who originated this theory, and take it up with them.
I don't have a problem with others theories on scripture. I was just looking for textual support. I do understand there are other ideas as to what the text meaning is. Thanks for your input. As I said before I appreciate hearing other's thoughts.
I did not read the posts but,,,, Christianity and Muslim started with them to….
Yes Vinke, all three of the Abrahamic religions are in agreement when it comes to the creation story. But the path widens pretty fast when philosophy, theary, and interpretation take over. I guess it's just our human nature.
I do sometimes wonder if he was a false teachers sent by the serpent to deceive.
Chancey. Hear is a list of some miracles of Paul. Acts 3: 1-11. 14:8-10. 13:9-11. 16: 16-18 & 25-27 19:11-12. 20:9-9. 28:3-6and 28:8&9. Remember the pharisees acused Jesus's miracles as being the works of saton.
I don't believe the verses in 1 Timothy that you spoke of are not a contradiction. Adam left his father and mother. He become one with Eve. Just like in Ephesians Paul says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church. I believe Adam was willing to lose his life for Eve.
Giant Sage, with respect, I have difficulty comparing the miracles of Paul to the miracles of Jesus Christ. I base all of the Bible and all its books and verses against the Rock Jesus Christ. I read Paul, I study Paul, and there is no doubt there are a lot of good things he preaches. On the other hand, Paul is not necessary for my salvation and if he were never to have existed, it would bear no meaning to me on my understanding of the the Gospel of Christ Jesus or my salvation IMO.
I don't need Paul to explain to me what Jesus preached. I know that this will rub some the wrong way, but it is what I think.
There is not a doubt in my mind that Adam was willing to lose his life for Eve. He loved her dearly and was his wife and companion. However, Adam was a direct creation of God, like the Angels. Eve, was similar to this, but not exactly. You and I, and all the prophets, and Moses, and Paul are not direct creations from God. We are descendants of Adam. I think there is a difference.
I cannot square the Timothy issue and what Genesis says. I think there is a contradiction. Timothy clearly states that Eve was the one that was deceived and not Adam. Genesis clearly says that when Eve took the "fruit" her husband Adam was with her. So we have to consider these possibilities....
1. Either Adam the husband watched and allowed his wife to destroy all of humanity through sin and allowed it. Or.....
2. Adam was naive and did not understand what was happening.
Some folks suggest that Adam was unaware of what Eve was doing, so he was the innocent one. Timothy suggests this. I find that incredibly difficult to believe as Adam was with her and he was a direct creation of God. He was probably far far far more intelligent than any of us, and in my opinion both of them were deceived.
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Adam very well may have wached his wife Eve take the fruit. Adam was also created in the image of God. Why do you suppose God did not stop Eve from talking the fruit.
I take it as it was written. She was deceived along with her busband..
God gave the rules in Eden, and expected them to follow; same as us now. I see it as a loving Father, giving rules and guidance, but not watching every move even though God knew, and it was necessary for the salvation of both me and you.
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Chancey, I'm not sure if you understood my question. It is about free will. If we didn't have free will, God would never allow us to sin. I can think of numerous times that I've suggested to my wife that somthing she was doing was not right. And vice versa and we both have done it anyway. We both are understand that God gives us freewill. And if we don't do the same we are going against God's nature. Jesus became sin for us. This doesn't mean he ever sinned. When Eve transgressed she was the only world he had besides God. Can you imagine how Jesus feels when we sin and we have proclaimed him our lord. He still loves us and is standing in the gap. And he died for us. He understands our battle of the flesh.
giant sage,,,i understand your interest in this topic, and i share your interest, but this theory isnt mine. its been around for thousands of years. i haven't said anything about my own beliefs, as my relationship with God is between me and Him.
rex,,,i have no idea about your question, but theyd have to be either male, or able to take the form they want at any particular time, as the scripture states plainly that they did indeed come into the daughters of man. mary was impregnated by a spirit, and the daughters of man were bred by fallen angels. its not that far of a leap to think satan appeared as a man when he met eve.
lots of theories and questions we'll never solve, but maybe we'll have a chance to ask questions ourselves, of God, when our times come.
100% see your point and agree. Freewill is absolutely necessary for a loving God; their can be no other way unless dictatorship. I see it as a Father and child relationship. Of course I can beat my little girl into obedience, but that doesn't work down the road, and there is no relationship or love there.. The question is. How can a Just God reconcile the sin of man? The only answer is through Christ Jesus.
I can't imagine how Jesus or God feels about reckless mankind. I myself am a wreck if I am truthful about my nature. Every time I think I fix or have one of my sins under control, then God shows me another problem I have, and it ticks me off cause I really don't want to deal with that issue at the moment. I am a pathetic Christian at best. I'm likely in the bunch that Jesus will spew out of His mouth.
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giant sage,,,i understand your interest in this topic, and i share your interest, but this theory isnt mine. its been around for thousands of years. i haven't said anything about my own beliefs, as my relationship with God is between me and Him.
rex,,,i have no idea about your question, but theyd have to be either male, or able to take the form they want at any particular time, as the scripture states plainly that they did indeed come into the daughters of man. mary was impregnated by a spirit, and the daughters of man were bred by fallen angels. its not that far of a leap to think satan appeared as a man when he met eve.
lots of theories and questions we'll never solve, but maybe we'll have a chance to ask questions ourselves, of God, when our times come.
Thanks Fossil2. I appreciate your posts.
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Re: Cain and Abel
[Re: rex123]
#8429400 07/02/2512:12 AM07/02/2512:12 AM
if angels are neither male nor female hoe did they sleep with women and produce giants
This is a new concept for me. I have always read that all angels are males. At least that is what the Holy Bible, the NKJV, The Septuagint, Book of Jasher, the Torah, and even the Islamic Quran speak of. Never have I seen a reference of angels not being male in Christian doctrine.
On the other hand, there is plenty of this in the Talmud and Zohar, so I am not sure what you are referring to.
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Chancey, Eve was taken= created from Adam. She was bone of his bone and flesh of his fresh. Just like we are members of the body of Christ. Wich by the way was tought to the corinthians by Paul bering fruit. As he taught the Armour of God to the Ephesians and the fruit s of the spirit to the galatians. You shall know them by there fruits. Paul also brought the gospel of the kingdom to the Gentiles. With Jesus thoroughly prophesied would happen. And was also prophesied in the old testament.