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Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? #1108377
01/08/09 09:47 PM
01/08/09 09:47 PM
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Nightwish Offline OP
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Ok guys...no fouling this one up. How about an intelligent conversation about lures and baits...

I think baits are often overused and unecessary for fox...coyotes I cannot say. I am guessing if its cold enough, lure and bit would be a good idea for yotes.

Lure makers, can one get away with just a good lure down the hole in the cold...or do we need more?

I am also partial to the idea that when its cold...the breed is on and thats a plus for lures...

GO! cool

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: Nightwish] #1108464
01/08/09 10:10 PM
01/08/09 10:10 PM
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Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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I use only lure at sets, never have used any bait in addition to the lure in nearly 30 years. I've trapped with just bait, trapped with just lure and trapped with bait and lure in combination. I can't speak for all lures as I don't know thier formulation but with Lenon lures no bait is needed in addition to the lure to make it more effective. The only reason I ever used chunk baits was when trapping the hot Summer months for bounty as ants, grasshoppers and locusts would eat up a gob of lure much quicker than a cube of bait. I use lures appropriately for the type of set being made. At hole sets I use a food based lure with gland, passion and curiosity ingredients added as the idea of a hole set is to fool the animal into thinking something edible was buried there. At scent post, flat sets and blind scent sets or any set without a hole I use a urine/gland/passion/curiosity lure with no food/hunger element in the formulation. Although they always work for the most part at any type set, a food lure would not be natural smeared on a scent post for example and a urine gland would not be complete for a hole set without the food element included. With all due respect to some of the premiere lure makers, this idea that every set needs a lure and a bait is an idea hoisted off on trappers for years by by the late E. J. Dailey and O. L. Butcher. That idea was probably wise considering the types of lures they formulated for the most part which were urine gland lures with no other callings added in the formulation. My Dad developed lures for his own long bounty lines for convenience, no sloppy jugs of bait to haul around potentially contaminating his traps and equipment, just a nice neat paste lure to apply to a set with no drip or slop. Asa

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #1108611
01/08/09 10:45 PM
01/08/09 10:45 PM
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Nightwish Offline OP
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Very interesting. My thinking is that with the right set, a good lure or urine can trigger them to either dig or simply try to inestigate...which can only yieled a connection.

Sheep wool or a grass wad down the hole can act as an attractor...when lure is also used. People think I'm crzy but I use one ply of unscented toilet paper jammed down the hole...they have to get that out...and its all over.

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: Nightwish] #1108617
01/08/09 10:49 PM
01/08/09 10:49 PM
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south east pa
lennitrapper Offline
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this year i only used lure till over half way thru than used some Bait that Bill Morgan gave me and did very well. i have never used lure and bait together. I always use Bills Pro Squeeze on my sets. Past years i used Cheese curls in my holes with pee and gland all season. The year i did that i caught 36 in like 2 weeks with 18 traps. So its not conclusive info but it is some info. I think The urine aand smell had alot to do with those 36 fox plus the cheesy smell in teh hole.


red fox trapper wannabe.

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"What was your bait?? Cobra?" white 17
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: lennitrapper] #1108626
01/08/09 10:53 PM
01/08/09 10:53 PM
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south east pa
lennitrapper Offline
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BTW before anyone says anything. I am not an expert just a kid who likes to trap fox.


red fox trapper wannabe.

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"What was your bait?? Cobra?" white 17
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: lennitrapper] #1108634
01/08/09 10:55 PM
01/08/09 10:55 PM
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Nightwish Offline OP
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Len, what's Bills pro-squeeze smell like?

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: Nightwish] #1108645
01/08/09 10:57 PM
01/08/09 10:57 PM
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south east pa
lennitrapper Offline
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I dont know exactly. it smells alot like pee but something is added to change it slightly. I know one part of the process but i am sworn to secrecy(sp?)


red fox trapper wannabe.

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"What was your bait?? Cobra?" white 17
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: lennitrapper] #1108712
01/08/09 11:16 PM
01/08/09 11:16 PM
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Nightwish Offline OP
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My jub of bladder peee is still near 1 gal. I take out about 1 pint every 2-3 days...and replace it with fresh bladder pee right away. Nothing like the adult fox urine right from the source...

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: Nightwish] #1108817
01/08/09 11:57 PM
01/08/09 11:57 PM
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cndgmn Offline
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An extra step,thats what it usually all comes down to.How a person gets a canine to make an extra step.

Sometimes I'm on the trapline and have a Shakesperian moment--hark what light through yonder window breaks!

An excellent lure is good,an excellent bait is good.If you have the right combination it can't be beat and you will get the maximum number of steps out of any canine willing to commit.

This being said,I use mainly just lure for practical reasons but know otherwise.




Last edited by cndgmn; 01/08/09 11:59 PM. Reason: not self proclaimed expert
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: cndgmn] #1108831
01/09/09 12:00 AM
01/09/09 12:00 AM
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south east pa
lennitrapper Offline
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i only want the canine to take one step, normally thats it. i can count the number of misses from mis steps on my fingers from this year.


red fox trapper wannabe.

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"What was your bait?? Cobra?" white 17
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: lennitrapper] #1108876
01/09/09 12:15 AM
01/09/09 12:15 AM
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cndgmn Offline
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Lenni,you're a much luckier man than me.I hope you're doing some snow trapping and not relying on prints in the dirt.

Last edited by cndgmn; 01/09/09 12:15 AM.
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bait??? [Re: cndgmn] #1108887
01/09/09 12:18 AM
01/09/09 12:18 AM
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lennitrapper Offline
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i use all peat and every set is smooth as a babys behind when i am done. if i fox steps on that pattern i know. when i said one step i ment one step on my pattern, i want his first as his last, one step to sniff and BAM.

on a side note to Bill, John the bait he gave me was a ground up meat based bait. i had one fox actualy digging while in the trap. i slowly approched the fox and saw him digging with his un caught front foot at what was the dirt hole.


red fox trapper wannabe.

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"What was your bait?? Cobra?" white 17
Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: lennitrapper] #1109449
01/09/09 08:32 AM
01/09/09 08:32 AM
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Mike367 Offline
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I feel anymore than 1 type of lure or bait at a set is a waist of money. I use lure only, dip a twig or weed in, throw in hole making sure the lure is as far back in the hole as I can get it and beat feet. No need for a splash of urine, a dribble of gland lure, a hunk of bait and a grass plug fouling up a dirt hole.

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: Mike367] #1109495
01/09/09 09:04 AM
01/09/09 09:04 AM
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Northern Indiana
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I have used just lure for the past 20+ years for all my canine trapping. And over the years I have tried many different makers to come up with what I now use as my go to lures. The only time I use bait is at water sets for the coon or prebaiting sets before season.Trapping is a game where you need to be constantly looking to throw a curve at them. This next season I'm looking to try out a couple of baits that I see other have good success with such as Hiawatha Valley and Powder River. Never stop learning and never stop looking. And good luck trapping.

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: wileytrapper] #1109515
01/09/09 09:21 AM
01/09/09 09:21 AM
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Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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Mike367 wrote...I feel anymore than 1 type of lure or bait at a set is a waist of money. I use lure only, dip a twig or weed in, throw in hole making sure the lure is as far back in the hole as I can get it and beat feet. No need for a splash of urine, a dribble of gland lure, a hunk of bait and a grass plug fouling up a dirt hole.

You took the words right out of my thoughts Mike!
Sometimes if a set hasn't produced in some time or after a significant rain fall I will give set backing a squirt of urine to refreshen the set. I use a good pump bottle so I can stand back and off to the side of a set a few feet so I don't have to track right up to the set. Asa

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: Asa Lenon] #1109660
01/09/09 11:03 AM
01/09/09 11:03 AM
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cndgmn Offline
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Quote:
i use all peat and every set is smooth as a babys behind when i am done. if i fox steps on that pattern i know. when i said one step i ment one step on my pattern, i want his first as his last, one step to sniff and BAM.


Me too,unfortunately its not a perferct world and the animals don't always cooperate.I mentioned snow because its not just the misses in the pattern that matter,sometimes it can take something extra to get them to step on the pattern.It also doesn't matter where you bed your trap you WILL have misses regardless of where you place it.I've set traps center-tight,offsetright-right back a little center,back a little offset,etc etc,etc.In all of these scenarios I had misses.Its something that experience teaches and sometimes experience is self evident.

Anyone that doubts the effectiveness of a good bait in certain situations needs to experiment a little more.If you've got canines that are being standoffish or passing by sets get yourself a roadkilled feral cat,chunk it up,taint it for a couple days,then stuff that down your hole.It can be odd how areas that were "trapped out" suddenly come to life.

Then theres the location aspect to the whole canine trapping thing.I've worked on telephone poles from Se Pa down into Maryland.I recall driving back to the motel one evening and I saw a man walking out his long driveway with a pair of foxes hunting in the fields on both sides of him.I also saw numerous other fox darting about.This leads me to believe the area is literally crawling with fox and 100-600 fox from that area doesn't make much of an impression on me.The same goes for coyote or what have you,in some locations its easy to rack up numbers of any given animal.

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: cndgmn] #1109730
01/09/09 11:45 AM
01/09/09 11:45 AM
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nyfox Offline
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We have found that lures are all you really need to trap fox and urine is helpful ,BUT have found that coyotes didnt work the sets as much untill we started to use bait ,so with that said we started to use it on some sets with bait in the hole and fox gland lure around the lip or in the hole and found that it started to catch both fox and coyote consistantly.Their is no wrong or right way ,it is what works .

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: cndgmn] #1109734
01/09/09 11:49 AM
01/09/09 11:49 AM
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Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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cndgmn wrote...Anyone that doubts the effectiveness of a good bait in certain situations needs to experiment a little more

With all due respect, I trapped with and without bait and used chunk bait for 25 years during the bounty trapping era and I could never see one increase or decrease in set acceptance or avoidance whether or not the bait was used in addition to one of my lures. Asa

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: Asa Lenon] #1109749
01/09/09 12:01 PM
01/09/09 12:01 PM
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ASA ,what are your thoughts with what i mentioned above ?

Re: Lure makers and K9 experts.....Lure and/or bai [Re: Asa Lenon] #1109750
01/09/09 12:01 PM
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cndgmn Offline
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Ace,I'm sorry but I've got to respectfully disagree with you on this one.I have no doubt you've learned from experience as have I.To be fair you've probably tried several more lures(experimental or otherwise)than me.At this point in the game I'm sticking with my beliefs until proven otherwise.I have never used your lures and may have to put in an order for next year.You know,leave no stone unturned.

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