Number17 asked...
Asa, just wondering....do you know how to use the "quote" feature to answer someone's specific question. I have noticed that you do alot of extra re-typing rather than using this tool. Just trying to help you out as you do me.

I don't re-type anything, just use the right click copy and paste method but no, I don't know how to use the quote feature. Thanks for asking, I'm interested! Asa

Buzzard:
Thanks for the reply and you bring up a GOOD point. Once one adds Dobbin's solution to some meat cubes or makes a batch of the Nelson formula baits for examples that are so widly used then it is no longer a BAIT but is now a LURE. A true bait would be simply a chunk of meat, fish or fruit with no other ingredients added. I should have differentiated that in my earlier postings. In effect, my whole line of Super All Call and Super Range All Call lures are actually combination bait/lures, that is why no additional bait makes them any more effective. Asa

Slim,You've got a real way with words.You also write some of the wisest statements I've ever read.Can I call you Ol'Signature A Minute??

Buzz,nice double.Its interesting to know what a half crazy person does,the results are quite interesting.I may have to try my own experiments a little further next year,its winding down quickly this year.

Ace,as always you give plenty of food for thought.

TTT

If the spoonful of bait or chunk of beaver meat is hidden in a dirthole how does the critter know what he is getting until he actually digs it out? And by that time if the trap hasnt fired its not gonna. Most canines are caught out of curiosity, very few are hungry. I have tried house cat meat and dont care for the fuss and mess. My favorite go to fox lures are Fox Hollow's Voo Doo and Blackie's Blend TKO. Bait solutions are nothing more than lures. Not saying other methods dont work, just what works for me. Mike

Actually, I think the K-9's nose is keen enough that it can tell what smell is coming from that hole before he ever gets it in his mouth.
I mean...If you got your beaver chunk meat in an empty CLEAN peanut butter jar. That K=9 KNOWS that in this hole is Beaver meat, Peanut butter, That the Peanut butter is JIFFY and that it was Jiffy Crunchy not Creamy!
JMO

University experiments concluded that if there is many ingredients in a lure than a canine and many other animals are capable of standing back and separating and analyzing each individual odor without even having to come close. No wonder that perhaps the number one cause of set avoidance, walk-bys, failure to work the set, etc may be overusage of attractors. Asa

so actually, fox pee isn't a cover scent?? If the study is right, the K9s smell the pee and the human scent?

Also something I have noticed this year, Some give advice on using a skunk type lure up high and down wind from the set with a bait/lure in the hole. Most of the time I use this is with a dirt hole set, and on every miss I have had, the fox after a short visit would go to the other lure, marking the area most of the time. If I use the lure in the hole, it's a fox still at the hole waiting for me.

Good point KYCountry, I don't personally believe in or use attractors, including urine, any place except right at the set placed where the animal has to pass over the trap to get at them. Asa

Man, this thread has done pretty well...

I just use lure at my fox sets...two, one at each set...6-8 feet apart. I will use bait to HOLD THEM there if/when it gets real cold. My bait of choice?

JW Crawford's bacon grease from the fry pan

If using dirtholes, I think it will only take ONE step and even bladder peee can trigger that. One step on the pattern...and why?

So, the fox can stick his head in the hole...like they LOVE to do.

Imagine if the baldder pee you used had enough glycerine in it to keep the hole from freezing? That hole would then act like a chimney...carryng the odors out.

Ever see a cartoon with the mad scientist perculating some concoction and the steam/odor/vapors are coming out and floating on the floor?

Thats what a dirt hole does...

Good posts guys..and thanks to Mr. Buzzard for not defiling this thread. I owe you a beer...LOL...

Asa, I also occasionally place Skunk essence "up and behind" my sets. I believe it helps get a "passer by's" attention in cold or windy weather. The reason I don't use it at the hole is, I have noticed, In my area..That I get more Grinners if the skunk is in the hole. Does that make any sense?

I should probably re-word my last post. What I meant was the canine cant tell the difference between what is lure and what is bait. My opinion is the best attractor for canines is a gland based, food/curiosity type lure. And to answer Buzzies insult, Im no Brownie but can hold my own. Mike

Yes bic, that makes sense and using plain skunk musk as the call probably doesn't distract from the set like a multi-ingredient call lure may do.

Mike wrote...My opinion is the best attractor for canines is a gland based, food/curiosity type lure.

I agree Mike, its all it takes to do the job. Asa

How do you know they stick their whole head in the hole?,did you sit at a set and watch them?,oh ya,thats right,you saw it on a vidio I posted.

No Phil..I knew a guy who had 2 fox in an enclosure. They were his pets. He did extensive testing on lures and dirtholes with them...traps and all. At least 50% of the time they stuck their whole head in the hole when investigating. There's other things they did that i cant say...

Every magician has his secrets...

Buzzy, i think I like you....Rings of Saturn is one of my screen names...

Phil, your thoughts on baits, lures and urines?

Seriously..Hey Phil, I'm sure you have something to offer to this thread. I know you wouldn't give up too much info, but how about a morsel or two?

here is where i differ greatly from you guys. I have a few lures that i got ( John they are from bill, only me and him have these two) And i wont use these lure above 40 degrees. once it gets around freezin i break these lures out. However i do put a diffrent smell in each hole an dmy double sets are normally no more than 10 feet away

If you trap long enough I think that you will find what works for you. It can be very different than what someone else has used for success.

I trapped in the northern states for many years and used bait or lure down a hole and a dab of skunk nearby as a call. Any critter with a nose may smell the skunk and then find it's way to the hole. Using skunk essence in the hole didn't mean I was going to catch more nontarget animals. Your going to get them! The reason behind my reasoning was that the skunk essence out of the hole seemed to carry in the air currents farther than when it was down the hole. When I made lures and baits back then I never put skunk essence in the formula.

I now make many of my lures with skunk essence in them because most trappers don't want to carry a bottle of skunk with them. I do still carry a bottle of skunk essence with me even if I have lures with skunk in them. I trap for fun now and don't trap hard like I used to, as I don't have time anymore.

I will make sets that are out of the way and not where placement of sets should be. When doing this type of trapping you better have a good call agent that might bring them off the beaten path and that's also why I carry a bottle of skunk essence with me.
When I really want to be sure I'm gonna have the best chance to catch somthing I'll trap location. Animals are like people, some like stuff that smells alot and the next animal that smells the same scent might back off and avoid the set.

There are times when lures and baits work better in one area than in another area. I can only try to get you to test different ways of using scents and lures and find out what works best for you. At the same time never quit testing to see if something else might work better for you. After awhile you'll have a pretty good idea of what works for you when you really want to hammer the fur. I always put a few sets out for testing and put other sets out that I knew had the best chance to catch my target animal.

Heck, I forgot what the question was now! LOL

How big yall makin your holes? mine are only the diam. of a quarter or half dollar

You must have bee watching to many Tom Miranda videos! LOL
Dirt holes can be any size, but I like mine big enough to look like a critter bigger than a mouse lives in it. I'd say that as many traps as phil runs he doesn't have time to make big holes. That fox is gonna put his nose in the hole no matter how big it is. A smaller hole just means more diggin for the fox! LOL

i have never seen a Mirranda movie. Thats just how i make my sets. i used to dig holes when i ran 12 traps in 4 hours but this season i ran an ave of 25 in 2-3 hours so it was Pop&Go i dont really see how the huge hole will affect the outcome that much/ seems like a waste of a minute or 2 multiplied 30 times your lookin at an hour saved