Marten thread
#1623140
11/29/09 02:51 PM
11/29/09 02:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,574 Oregon
alaska viking
OP
"Made it two years not being censored"
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OP
"Made it two years not being censored"
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,574
Oregon
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Just saw W17's post regarding marten pops, and agree. Here on the S.E. mainland, marten numbers appear to be down. I suspect that the last three tough winters had something to do with it. Voles have been trending down, though I'm seeing a bit more from them this year, and hope the marten follow suit. I'm letting a portion of my marten line fallow this year, but will set a small area and keep track of pertinent data. Be nice to compare notes with others here.
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: white17]
#1625287
11/30/09 01:42 PM
11/30/09 01:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,574 Oregon
alaska viking
OP
"Made it two years not being censored"
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OP
"Made it two years not being censored"
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,574
Oregon
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Here I believe the vole is the primary food source for marten, though I'm sure they are an opportunist and will eat what they can catch. I'm curious what the main cause of mortality is for voles. I would assume climatic conditions play a big role, particularly for re-production. Also, with the past three years being record and near record snow fall, would that affect availability of voles for marten?
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: piperniner]
#1625336
11/30/09 02:16 PM
11/30/09 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,984 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
"On The Other Hand"
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"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,984
Idaho, Lemhi County
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I'll interject my two-cents worth. For years in Alaska, I monitored small mammal relative abundance based on thousands of trapnights during the late summer with mouse traps (museum specials) in all kinds of habitats. Unlike in northern Europe and Asia where the voles are cyclic (that is, they have predictable 3-year cycles)there did not appear to be predictable cycles in Alaska. Rather, highs and lows were often with a 10-times difference (100 captures one year, 10 the next). I'm of the strong opinion, that early spring thaws (notably when chinooks blow through in February/March) are responsible for loss of vole populations. As suggested by White17, the subnivean (under-snow) tunnels get wet, the voles get wet, and they subsequently die of exposure.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: Gulo]
#1625355
11/30/09 02:26 PM
11/30/09 02:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,574 Oregon
alaska viking
OP
"Made it two years not being censored"
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OP
"Made it two years not being censored"
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,574
Oregon
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That would make sense. I had at least 8 feet of snow pack prior to thaw this past winter, and so would conject that the thaw period was prolonged to the point were the ground was wet for a considerable time. Most of my line courses through a valley system, although it does run from sea level to about 800 ft. I wonder if I might find higher marten numbers up on the higher elevations rather than in the bottoms?
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: takotna]
#1628015
12/01/09 06:33 PM
12/01/09 06:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,984 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
"On The Other Hand"
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"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,984
Idaho, Lemhi County
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White17, takotna, et al..... I find it very interesting that you all are assigning age classes to harvested marten. What are you using as criteria for separating YOY from ADU animals. Tell me you're NOT using the masseter muscle closure method on the sagittal crest. While this works 90+% of the time on males, it's much less precise on females. Please tell me you are using the supra-sesamoid tubercle on the femur. It's 100% for both males and females. Unfortunately, requires that the femur be cleaned, but is a LOT more precise. You can say, "what the heck..." but 90% just don't cut it and even worse, 75% on females is goin' to get you into trouble...
That said, I loudly applaud your efforts to "manage" your lines in a responsible way. Beats the heck out of the management agency (ADF&G in this case) screwing around with season lengths, opening/closing dates, etc. If a trapper wants to manage his line based on year-to-year fluctuations, more power to 'em, and he'll end up with more marten in the long run. If y'all want a real diatribe on marten management, tweak my tailfeathers a bit more and I'll give you what I know after closely following marten populations for a couple decades and necropsying several thousand critters.
Have I bitten off more than I can chew?
Last edited by Gulo; 12/01/09 06:34 PM.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: Gulo]
#1628032
12/01/09 06:38 PM
12/01/09 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,984 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
"On The Other Hand"
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"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,984
Idaho, Lemhi County
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By the way, takotna...
Those male:female ratios look great! Your YOY:ADU ratios, however, look like things might have taken a downturn.
Man! It's really tough being down here in the lowest 48, remembering all the marten work... I guess that's what they call arm-chair, Monday-morning quarterbacking.
Keep it up, takotna...
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: Pittu]
#1628119
12/01/09 07:03 PM
12/01/09 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,991 North Pole Alaska
bearbait
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,991
North Pole Alaska
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I caught 1 marten last year so anyone needing advice please ask away.
Eat, Drink, and don't be a Mary.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: bearbait]
#1628129
12/01/09 07:07 PM
12/01/09 07:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,317 Montana
mtbadger
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,317
Montana
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BB what is the best set and bait/lure for the many marten you have caught...lol
Ordinary men can do extrodinary things....
Always looking for Bridger #3OS and 1.65OS
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: mtbadger]
#1628236
12/01/09 07:32 PM
12/01/09 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,991 North Pole Alaska
bearbait
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,991
North Pole Alaska
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My best marten bait last year was a lynx carcass but unfortunately it resulted in a %100 female catch rate.
Eat, Drink, and don't be a Mary.
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Re: Marten thread
[Re: Gulo]
#1628376
12/01/09 08:20 PM
12/01/09 08:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,755 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,755
McGrath, AK
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White17, takotna, et al..... I find it very interesting that you all are assigning age classes to harvested marten. What are you using as criteria for separating YOY from ADU animals. Tell me you're NOT using the masseter muscle closure method on the sagittal crest. While this works 90+% of the time on males, it's much less precise on females. Please tell me you are using the supra-sesamoid tubercle on the femur. It's 100% for both males and females. Unfortunately, requires that the femur be cleaned, but is a LOT more precise. You can say, "what the heck..." but 90% just don't cut it and even worse, 75% on females is goin' to get you into trouble...
That said, I loudly applaud your efforts to "manage" your lines in a responsible way. Beats the heck out of the management agency (ADF&G in this case) screwing around with season lengths, opening/closing dates, etc. If a trapper wants to manage his line based on year-to-year fluctuations, more power to 'em, and he'll end up with more marten in the long run. If y'all want a real diatribe on marten management, tweak my tailfeathers a bit more and I'll give you what I know after closely following marten populations for a couple decades and necropsying several thousand critters.
Have I bitten off more than I can chew? We are not going to tell you that. How much chew have you bitten? Yep we are using masseter muscle closure method because I don't know of anyone except you and Barb that will remove and clean all those femurs. As I recall I never measured a male femur that was less than 80 mm and never found a female femur that was nearly that long. More like 60+ mm for the girls. What are the criteria by which we can age, based on the tubercle ? Diameter, cross section ?? Or, is it just the presence or absence of the tubercle that determines adult from juvie ? Talk to us bro.
Mean As Nails
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