I just read a post about spring/summer coyote bait and it got me to wondering how many of you guys do some denning in your area? We do some every year and its a little pricey because of all the time and labor involved for my ranchers but it DOES seem to help quite well on the ranches we do it on in holding down the depredation on livestock when the coyotes have a den full of pups to feed.

Bob

i do a bunch of it.I like to locate the den by sirening. then sneek in with the pup squealer and try to call the female out.I have found if I get the female dispatched, the male USUALLY wont move the pups. Then you have some chances to kill the male . Once I do that I got a couple dogs that are great for rounding up whats left.I sure does help save some livestock.

Gt. that's exactly how I do it here! Ehd,I can sure see the advantage in having dogs to expidite the process. I of course don't have dogs so once I have taken care of the adults and found the den (which at times is a process in itself) I then have to litterly dig out the pups.

Bob

Bob , that can be alot of work for sure. good to hear that some ranchers up your way know the value of a good trapper to help them out instead of the weekend warriors that makes the [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] move the pups on ya.

I bet he used the B---- word but only in the nicest sense.

I think where bobs at is alot of rocks and hard digging!!!

I can tell you one thing...

Locating the dens is where summer coyote trapping is at!
You will never catch many coyotes trapping them at all the winter locations you did during fur season!
Try that, you're in for a long wait!

Locate the den and set all the corners and travelways away from the site.
Take the adults FIRST, then move in on the pups, if possible...and it isn't ALWAYS!

Ehd, you obviously know our country up here. It's never fun just a lot of hard work. Plus once you get the hole opened up enough to actually crawl in and get to the pups at times the fleas are so bad they cover you in seconds! Gt, if you've got an easer way to do this, believe me I'am all ears.

Bob

No real good way without some canine help. I have tried to pick up the pups with a live trap. Very limited success.About the fleas reminded of a friend that helped me once. Stuck his head in the den hole and he had a full face beard. His hands looked like hummingbirds wings beating scratching his face.Covered with FLEAS!!

Coyote Denning DVD?

If there is not a DVD available on this subject someone should do one.

o gormans catalog has some ridge runner

I was going to make a denning dvd, and did cover it briefly in my fox dvd. bottom line is I doubt a guy would sell 200copies. 100 to collectors, 100 to serious guys wanting to learn denning. maybe 3-400 max, in time. and that wouldn`t pay the cost to make a dvd, film it , advertise it , get the editing and cases and duplication and shipping. it takes a heck of a common dvd like coon or coyote or bobcat trapping to sell 1,000 copies. just no money it anymore. everybody and his brother making dvd`s now. plus your average trapper is so tight he wouldn`t pay 5 cents to see ann margaret ride a unicycle naked. I`d think with the limited market a good denning dvd showing many many dens, finding techniques, gassing, digging ,trapping , the adults, by horseback, plane or foot or truck, the cost would need to be over $100 each to break even on a 2-400 total copies sold. there would be 1,000s of veiwers, just not 1,000s of payers. so that`s why there are few or none. if o`g has any of any account, I mean more than showing one den some guy lucked into,and blabbing a bit, then he is the only one I know of.

10 cents...no, make it a dollar!

(on the Ann Margaret thing..)

Yes, O'Gorman has one by (the late) Vern Hopkins...

I agree with you on the time and cost vs. return, Bob....

And the shame of it is, there's a lot of valuable information that will die with guys like you.

Man's gotta leave some foot prints though......

i really enjoy den hunting and the chance t get to work my dogs. One thing for sure I have learned is go at it correctly with high hopes but dont get dissappointed if you come up short. There are a bunch of variables that can go the coyotes way. the challange I have out here is the ground is very steep and broke up.reminds me of an old coyote hunter that taught me alot. We sirened up this canyon to hunt .He pointed down in it and said I think i heard them right there. I was too afraid to doubt him ,so away we went.He blew the pupsquealer and the parents came out, which we both killed the male and female. did some poking around and caught some pups. As we were hiking up out of there , he said" im a little deaf and never heard those pups howl". I said "I never heard them either".Well he said it looked like a likley spot...

I den 4-5 western states each spring/early summer. I locate about the same as most of you. Once I've found where I think they are I sneak in dead down wind of them and let the decoy dogs out. I use Mtn. Curs and Drahthaars. The dogs work like wonders and most of the time will have both the male and the female out and engaged. After I dispatch the male and female I use the decoy dogs to back track to the den and send the Jagdterriers in to do what they do. Doesn't always work like it should and at times the dogs, esp. the terriers really take a beating but I love being out and after coyotes in the spring and even if I didn't get paid to do it I would still probably find the time to do some. I do mostly coyote control but get in a few fox dens each season as well. I generally don't use footholds or snares and prefer the run and gun calling/decoy style.

The areas I den used to have a few old timers out denning as well but as the years go by they are getting fewer and fewer. It's a shame as they have loads of working knowledge and if I had problems or questions I knew they would have the answers.

Tim

I never knew German wirehairs were used for 'yotes. Who do the terriers take a beating from?

The terriers take a beating from adults that are down the den and refuse to come out. Every once in a while you will get a dry female that is with the mated couple. Kind of like a nanny. An adult coyote in the hole can be trouble for the terrier. I also have them out at "Whoa" while the decoy dogs are working and they occasionally lock up with a wounded coyote.

The Germans developed the DD's to deal with fur and varmits and it's still part of the testing program in Germany today. They work very well and are great decoy dogs. My female is a little too hard for general fur season hunting and only decoys in the late fur season and denning but my male who is now 14 is a heck of an all around fur dog. Over the years they have hunted fur way more than feather. They also will back trail and trail drags as well as most of the curs I've owned.

Here's some pics of my DD and GWP.

Mixed species ND hunt. We called/decoyed coyotes, hunted birds, and hunted old houses and haybarns with the terriers for coon.


My oldest male, 14 Yo., He's very obiedient and knows when to be aggressive with fur and when not.


My female, a GWP, with a late season decoyed coyote. She loves retrieving fur.

Tim

Thanks for the reply and especially the pictures. I don't remember learning being this much fun in school!

about 90% of the time I know where the den is, or very close, before the truck door is ever shut. it`s a sixth sense after awhile. I`ve about 2,000 lifetime dens under my belt now, mixed red fox/coyote. many a time had rancher tell me they are in this pasture somewhere ( could be 1-50,000 acres). next day he says he followed my tracks in the grass thru the gate, meander briefly and drive mile or two directly to the den. he says how did you know it was there? lol, well, I know stuff like that. it`s like when larry bird would make the fall away jumper as some huge gorilla knocked him over. everyone says luck shot! nope, he has neen practicing that shot since he was 8 years old. he planned on making it. fwiw, I`ve never used a dog to find a den in my life. I`m the dog. leaving west here shortly to do the spring fling thing, before it`s too late. and not talking about late in the year either. it`s fall for me already, days getting shorter. no time left to waste or years to skip.

Bob- I know what your saying after seeing so many you just have a gut feeling where they should be.

I was supposed to come out to WY and den with you a few years ago for a auction I won but never made it. Probably would have learned more in a few days then a lifetime of trying on my own. I regret not making it.

Hope your spring denning goes well. I'll be heading west in short order to get after them as well.

Tim

where/when you going? maybe we can still hook up. I`ll be in wyoming again. same o same o. it`s up in the air to leave now and get there too early, and do farm work here later, or do farm work here now and get there a tad too late. done it both ways and figure later is probably better than too early due to potential bad spring weather/storms, and pups too young yet, dens not real obvious early etc etc . no one wants to pay this year, so I`m just on a lark run.

I wish we could do some denning here. I've got a hunch on one from last summer. If anyone is familiar with Atlanta and it's landmarks that patch of woods called a nature preserve at The Fernbank Museum is my guess as to the den location for the yotes I dealt with across the street at the golf course.

th eastern coyotes will use a bulldose pile, broke down old deserted houses or barns, big bale piles, stacks of stumps and even big hollow trees and logs, maybe a huge tile or caved in broken field tile, sometimes just thick overhanging multiflora rose and such. in all my years never found an eastern coyote denning in a hole in the dirt or underground,a cut bank overhang at the most. and never found a western coyote not going in the ground. where is the cut off line? I don`t know, always been all the way east or all the way west, no tweener ground.

I have found most of mine in a hollow root wad, pile of rocks or an old log. Redwood stumps are another popular spot.

I've been itching to get out and head west and have a trip planned to ND starting next week. The dogs get crazy if they don't get hunted and it's getting time to go. I was planning on SE MT and NE WY sometime within the next month or so. If I was to call and ask the ranchers they'd say "NOW" but they don't always consider the best time to get them with dogs. To them the best time to kill a coyote is always "NOW".

Tim

Word!

Tim, and everybody else, if you ever have the opportunity to den or trap with Bob, don't pass it up. Unless you are dead in the head or on an ego trip you will learn more than you imagined. I still vividly remember my denning/trapping trip with Bob and have been trying to get back out with him ever since.

I still remember the sight of pat scampering across a cliff edge hopping from rock to rock with a screaming pup in each hand. we had 6 and I says, well, grab a couple pups and head to the truckwhile get the 2 adults out that was back when we trapped the adults and pups in foot traps. now I trap the adults and use a repeating box trap of my own design in the den to get all the pups in one trip back, to save miles and time. it`s shown in my fox dvd if anyone is interested. it makes trapping pups at the den in foot traps stoneage.

Bob, it's been my experience that coyote pups are a lot easier going and more gentle than fox pups. Is this true or have I just been lucky with the coyotes?

lucky I guess. mine are all nasty. foxes might make more noise screaming and shrieking. the coyotes are whiners.