I'm curious and like to understand why people and animals do what they do so please allow me to ask some questions.

How many of you guys feel the need to shoot video of yourselves explaining what you do, why you do it, and how you do it, and then post it on youtube?

If you are one of those who do, why do you do it?

Do you think this might come back to hurt you or your business somehow, or worse yet, have an adverse effect on the industry as a whole?

I inquired about this once before over on the general trapping forum and recieved some very harsh feedback, but in light of some recent events where youtube videos and videos that have been posted on here have been used by antis against individuals, and trappers in general, I just thought I would inquire about the professionals points of view on this topic. So don't be shy or reserved, just let her rip and let the chips fall where they may!!!

K9 - I'd say that your question is a good one and obviously there are folks on both sides of this fence and some that don't care either way.
Professionally a video can be a great way to market your services and since youtube is tied in to google, those using marketing online can
benefit greatly.

But,

Everyone disagrees on what is professional and what should be shown and what shouldn't. Taking the recent example where the individual
was trying to show something positive and ended up with a war in NV. In the end would this have been better to not have posted?

There are a whole group of folks who don't want to think about how videos, photos and other things that can be mass produced and shipped
onto AR sites and other sites to put down these activities. Many of those feel it is their right to put whatever they want out there and too bad
if it hurts someones feelings or if it causes and uproar.

Then there is the group trying to use youtube to show the aspects of wildlife damage to a home or commercial structure etc... and some of those
hit the mark while others lend to the unprofessional look so many would like to see fade away.

Since we all carry different opinions of course it will never stop but I would agree with your leanings that folks should consider what they post and how it
may affect their livelihood, legislation and public opinion.

It is easy to say who cares, I'm going to post what I want, however as the saying goes,

"discretion is the better part of valor"

good topic, sure you'll get some positive and negative on this subject.

justin

OMG, K10 man, not only did you get your 9 back but I actually increased your rating! I think that this may be one of the most important questions that has been recently asked. Were it not for a task force of intelligent people around me, I would be one of the people you are referring to.

As someone who was born in the 1940's, I am so far separated from today's culture that many things I see are nearly unbelievable.
Be that as it may, I am smart enough to let those in my family of the female persuasion and those who are graduates of a higher institution, decide what is important in advertising, personal appearances, and any other media out-takes.

Let's put is this way; since the majority of our phone calls originate from the fairer sex, why would we ever have anything on the internet or anywhere else, that would be so problematic for someone, that they wouldn't call? I really don't care that the majority may not agree with you, that fact is, that you are absolutely correct. The general public has no interset where their hamburger came from: and if they did, McDonalds would only be selling salads!

They show up great in a google search, only reason to do it on the nwco side. Why fur trappers do it, I have no clue.

The anti has there Owen YouTube video and they make me sick , watching how people in china treat animals is hard to watch . The one on the fox farm when it's harvest time is really bad , the reason I make YouTube video for one it's fun, two when people ask for a reference I just send them to youtube and chances are there's a video they can relate to . I have a stack of how to trap videos and DVD that anybody can buy . So if someone wish is to see how trapping is done they could just buy one . I really can't see how showing people how animals damage houses could start some movement against wildlife control . If anything it should do the oposite . The anti is coming at us no matter what ,that's what they do for a living . We can't hide from it so why even try . I for one am proud of what I do . People tell me all the time that I'm a life saver . I'm also done being worried about the anti trappers . Outlaw trapping that's fine I'll just make more trapping . Wildlife.control will always be here .you cant pass some law telling animals to stop damage homes ect

I can understand and pretty much agree with both sides of the issue. How's that for decisive! lol

I've never had a hobby or business where I was ashamed of what I was doing and trapping is no different. Why not let folks see what it is all about. I think part of the reason a lot of people are against trapping is that they have become squeamish from lack of exposure. Books, magazines and videos can help mitigate some of that.

On the other hand, calling attention to activities that are sure to upset a rather large percentage of people could be detrimental. Heck, the NH F&G website doesn't even list trapping. They list hunting and fishing but no trapping. Why? Because they feel not drawing attention is beneficial to the continuation of the sport. We are just north of and a large portion of the population is from Massachusetts after all.

So whichever side you're on, I understand and support you.

To each their own.

Show the damage, techniques, and people. Just as you wouldn't post a video of your brother behind bars...don't photograph a critter in the same situation.

Thanks for the input guys. So far it has been great, but now I have been led to inquire about other issues that are directly related to these videos.

I understand the marketing aspects and how valuable these videos can be at increasing a customer base. But to do it correctly shouldn't the poster make sure that the video is projecting a professional image to the potential customers or curious viewers? So what in your estimation constitutes projecting a professional image to the public at large, or more so to the potential customer? While I believe you guys will come up with several things that project a professional image, what do you feel are the top four - from most important to least important? Is it phone manners? Personal appearance? Speech? Vehicle appearance? The appearance of your equipment? How you interact with the customer? Is it how you manage your time and conduct your activities while on the job? Etc? The other concern I have is how much should we show and tell the public? Especially in light of the fact that you could be training your competition.

I think it was Peskycritter that mentioned it was fun to shoot and post the videos. For those of you who feel that way about it, why is it so much fun? Me, I avoid cameras and having my photo taken at every opportunity - thus my photo album is really, really thin. It is a psychological thing with me, so I wonder if it is a psychological thing with those who think it is fun, or do they just feel the need to show everybody what they do and tell them why they do it? This is where we break away from the professional marketing aspects of using videos to increase business and delve into the underlying reasons of why an individual does what he or she may do. Do you think shooting and posting these videos for some are actually a way of reaching out for acceptance, a way of achieving a sense of personal fame, or just a way of gaining self importance? Is this getting a little too deep or what?

Here is my opinion, since I am sure many of you are trying to figure out if I am trying to stir the pot or not. I am not. I am very concerned about incidents that have just recently been taking place as mentioned previously. I am opposed to the vast majority of videos being posted on youtube and other places. Just look at some of the things guys have said on this site and some of the pictures that have been posted. I have really cringed at some of them. And what about the really good well thought out videos and how they have been used out of context to hurt individuals and the trapping industry. It can happen to the best of people with the best of intentions. Some of these people posting on youtube don't have any common sense based on what they have said and shown. Some just don't have enough experience trapping, doing nwco work, or dealing with the antis to know what to avoid showing or talking about. I am not concerned about the antis coming after us as much as I am how they will use these videos and commentaries to persuade the 98% of the general public that are sitting on the fence trying to decide if they are pro trapping and wildlife management or against it. That is the real threat in my opinion.

Now, let her rip again. I am interested in your perspectives. One last question. How many of you attended any of the Animal Damage Control Workshops that were held down in Lexington, KY back in the early 90's? There is a good story there about perspectives and projecting professional images.

Edited to respond to DaveK. Dave, that is one of the problems I see, they do show the animal in the trap. And we all know how emotional people can become over an animal that is PERCIEVED to be in distress.

Some "how to" on cage trapping as educational material for states that have lost the right,,,

Product marketing,,,,,,,,,,
And
Shameless Self promotion,,,,,,,,,



Isn't this what our industry wants???? The end of fur trapping?......

K9, I have a partial list of the Lexington attendees and unless there are some lurkers, Steve Vantassel would be the only one that shows up on here once in a while.

I understand your concern. The Sierra Club ( Not one on my favorites anyhow ) has just come out against Conibears, footholds, and I guess trapping in general.

I've spent many enjoyable years fur trapping and I would hate to think that I ever had any part of ending it.

Shooting posting videos are a building block for my kids . Us learning together how to shoot video is fun and productive the way I see it. Who knows what I might inspire in my kids it's also good clean fun that's free . Teaching my kids to have confidence in them selfs is also my job as a dad . If I loose costumers because I specialize in same day animal removal and use aggressive tactics to do so that's fine with me . Some one calls and wants references I just tell them to look on YouTube and call me back it works for me . People also need to know we're hamburger comes from and that there also killing animals when they eat one but they chose to pay someone to kill it for them ,this helps understand what trappers do . They should also know that leather is fur with the hair removed . What I'm hearing from the anti lately is that eating and wearing wild animals is much better than farm raised . This is not 1980s the movement has turned on the farmers . It must be hard to go around all paranoid that there coming to get you because you help people every day that truly need help . I don't get any jobs from posting on YouTube . I haven't Got one single job from posting on YouTube . I haven't lost any ether. My customers will ask for me to email them the video , then I tell them that I'll post it on YouTube there like really ,they thank that's just great because now they can show there friends and feel kinda famous . I would rather leave a house with happy people then people wondering what just happened . People don't go holy smokes there's a bat in my house I better get on YouTube .these tree hugger type customers can hire someone else I don't need there drama

I know one thing. Those that think they are right have some great reasons for believing they are and those that think they are wrong have some reat reasons for thinking that. Either way your never going to please everyone all the time. As for you tube, I can take any video and twist it to a positive or negitive. Just depends I what I want the persn I am twisting the story for, to blieve. I do like Dave's suggestion to show all but the animal in the cage.

One does not know the number of customers lost from a video. But, I am sure it helps the competition...

Anything I can do to help Dave

From the posts so far it appears we have two lines of thought about this phenomenon; those that do it professionally for product marketing and promoting themselves/businesses, and those that apparently do it for self gratification and to fill some need of professional, and/or personal acceptance/recognition. JMO, since I am not a certified psychologist. I guess that answers the "why they do it" question.

I was a little disappointed that nobody answered the question of what constitutes projecting a professional image in these videos. On the job, I would say it would first and foremost be your physical appearance. The customer sees you before they hear you speak. The neighbors will see you and maybe never hear you speak. Your appearance will project to all who see you the level of professionalism that you are striving to attain or are performing at. Edited portion: It is all about perception. At what level of professionalism does your customer percieve you are performing at.

I remember back in the mid 80's L. Craig O'Gorman started hosting student only conventions. These were very informative seminars focused primarily on professional predator control and featured some very well known speakers from the predator and furbearer management industries. Attendance was by invitation only. The cost to attend was free. But in order to gain entry into the seminars men had to be in a three piece suit and tie, while women had to wear a pants suit or a semi formal dress. Lunches and dinners were catered. And Happy Hour was in a private meeting room. O'Gorman pounded it into the attendees heads that there was a time and a place to look and smell like a trapper (he wasn't considering an urban environment) and there was a time to act and look like a professional business person.

Back in the mid to late 80's when this industry really starting to take off there was only one national organization that dealt exclusively with nuisance and depredating wildlife. That was the National Animal Damage Control Association (NADCA). Their newletter was very informative and filled with some very technical literary pieces. If you ever saw a list of their membership it was filled with primarily government employees - biologists and WS employees - and a handfull of private contractors. This was a professional organization with a professional newsletter. Then in the late 80's or early 90's ADC magazine came on the scene, which was soon getting free market competition from the newly developed Wildlife Control Technology magazine. At about this same time the University of Kentucky - Lexington started hosting a couple of nuisance wildlife management seminars. I don't recall if there was a dress code or not but most of the attendees were dressed either semi formal or, at a minimum, business casual. They had some very informative seminars with numerous speakers from the wildlife management industries and academia. But what I remember the most vividly is that all of the attendees at one of these workshops were asked to complete a seminar questionaire. It was quite detailed in what it was asking. It was asking about your age, your educational level, any training in wildlife management you might have had, etc., etc. When the questionaire was studied and the results written about, with the exception of a national franchise, the majority of private nwcos were portrayed as being mostly uneducated (high school diploma or less), untrained in scientific wildlife management techniques, who are predominately ex fur trappers pretending to be professional wildlife management experts. That was the jist of it as I recall. It was not flattering at all. So if a team of educated professionals can arrive at their conclusion about the private nwcos back then what can the public at large, an anti organization, or a potential competitor learn about you if you are posting a youtube video? How many of you that are posting have ever been formally trained in public relations? I doubt many of the youtube videos posted by fur trappers and adc professionals have ever been formally trained in pr or have even bothered to have a pr professional critique their video prior to posting it and thus have no idea how much damage they are inflicting on themselves and the industries as a whole in my opinion.

Vinke, no, I am not trying to get rid of the fur trappers. I am trying to understand why people do what they do, and I am trying to increase the professionalism of both industries.

Peskycritter, I wouldn't think of doing this to a person without asking their permission first so I will ask and let you decide if you want to take part in this or not. You have posted comments numerous times on here as well as having posted numerous youtube videos. You appear to be willing to learn. Would you be open to having some of us on here critique what you have provided us with thus far in an effort to assist you in self improvement? And in return everybody can go back through my postings and critique my writings. We'll have a sort of 360 degree evaluation and see what we can learn about ourselves from the perspectives of others. This is a gutsy move if you take part. You will be opening yourself up to full public scrutiny. I'm game. Are you?

For my part, let her rip people.

This discussion definitely followed what I expected, those that do, keep doing and those that don't, won't likely.

The discussion of what is professional in appearance is another one that can be skewed either way by those in the videos or pics.
We've discussed on here before uniforms or clean appearance versus....well.....not.

The end result of that discussion was those that wear uniforms and clean attire believe it helps present that professional image
while those that don't think it doesn't matter.

Where the rubber hits the road in all of this is that while you may still be employed and getting work, you can never tell whether other folks
aren't calling because of the lack of professional image. This is a fact and can't be refuted.

To each his own I suppose.

Justin

Let the critiques begin. First off no one ( I guess with the exception of you ) ever cared for the NADCA news letter. If you had a Master's degree in forestry or agriculture maybe you could actually understand it. All of us felt that NADCA was of bunch of over-educated snobs that enjoyed looking down on us "little people".

As far as that questionnaire goes, most everyone felt that that whole thing was a set-up between Tom Barnes and Critter Control. All it showed was that if you didn't belong to a franchise, you were an ADC moron. I have no idea if any of this was true and I really didn't care. We knew all the CC people from the wildlife cruises and two of them that had taught at Lexington were good friends. I learned a lot from our relationships with Critter Control.

Since the meeting was the first of its kind, I really don't know how they could expect us all to act professional. We came there to learn professionalism, not to pick on people that we felt were inferior. That meeting showed a lot of people that we needed more education and was the start of a lot of seminars all over the nation.

Talking about this is good, and hopefully everyone can grow from the discussion. The business is diverse and there is room for all levels of professionalism. Everyone is going to operate differently - and that is where there is opportunity for both sides. As long as someone runs an honest business that honors the customer and follows the regs...go for it.

I have observed photos of bats with their teeth exposed and wings spread. Holding a bat by the wing tips is akin to holding a person by the finger tips. I think that it is poor taste at the least. Why not support the body and spread one wing? Has anyone thought about it from that standpoint?

DaveK,

I saw on a research site, two folks go at, profanity and all about that topic. The guy attacked stated he had worked with thousands of bats in field research and that the species he was working with it was a proper hold, the other person stated the injuries they had seen in the same type of work due to these holds.

you bring up a good point that is also controversial, I see guys crushing snakes with tongs, holding bats and blowing in their faces to get them to grimace and bare their teeth, same with coyote, raccoon and others, its another topic where people don't seem to think how the laymen or "customer" sees those things, forget the antis and how they feel, just step back and think how does joe schmo or his wife or kids feel emotionally when they are presented with picture or video with no other education on the subject.

Good point on the bats!

Justin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pgdOdarD_I&feature=youtube_gdata_player pesky critter shoots political correct YouTube video seems kinda boring