I recently purchased some berkshire stakes and pre-cut cable. The cable came with annealed nuts instead of double ferrules. I've only used the double ferrules for my cable stakes, has anyone had any bad experiences with the annealed nuts? are they just as good as the double ferrules?

Just looking for some input.

Thanks
Matt

The nut actually hold better IMO. Try a couple and see for yourself. The aluminum will hold well enough but the nuts hold even better.

~ADC~

I figured you would have some experience with them, I was looking for you to post, LOL, It was just one of those things i needed to hear from someone with some experience with them.

Thanks ADC, much appriciated.

Matt

i think the nuts hold better cause they have threads on them and grip the cable better .

I'm guessing that annealed nuts don't quite meet OSHA guidelines for such things...or that they have not been tested. But I think that is a different ballgame as you are looking at cable much bigger than skinny little snaring cable. Imagine trying to pound a steel nut onto 3/8" cable? And if it was doubled up how big of a nut would that have to be?

But back on topic I haven't experienced anything bad with annealed nuts or double ferrules. The nuts do seem like they would hold better as they are bulkier. If you're crimper is set up correctly I doubt you would ever see a difference in performance for trapping purposes.

Clark

Thanks for the replies.........I believe I'll give 'em a try and see what happens

Thanks Again

When a climber falls, he can generate huge forces.
Much higher than any almost any animal can make, just by pulling.

When your life is on the line, equipment can have as high as a 3500 pound tensile strength. (*But some sketchy little pieces might only rate to 500 or so, so you do every thing you can not to fall on them).

It's not exact math, but you generate about one times your body weight in force, for every foot you fall. Up to about 85 feet, then it starts to level off as you reach terminal velocity.

Falling just a couple body lengths, I could snap the loop off a 3/32 snare cable like a shoelace.

We did some testing of hammered ferrules, and swedged ferrules, on 3/8th cable, with loops, circles, and "dead" ends. (*At a major climbing gear company's high tech "torture chamber")
The swedged ferrules had nearly 20% more strength than the hammered ferrules.
All of which far exceeded the amount of force my body could generate or handle.

In trapping, even the hammered ferrules and nuts, should be more than sufficient.

Fish,

I read that the threads inside the nut can be detrimental. Some people advocate running a drill, or a round file through, to take the "bite" out of it.
They can cut into some strands of the cable, weakening it at the point to which most of the forces are transfered.

Krusty

P.S. If I'd known about using machine nuts back then, we would have tested them too.
If I had to use the 200 ton press to get 'em flat, I woulda!

We had a saying at the lab, "One good test, is worth a thousand theories."

serious question:

what is an annealed nut? what is the difference when you go to buy them? how do you know?

I like the nuts better than the ferrels because they are much smaller in size and do not stand out as much.

I've been looking for that bit of information for several years. Thanks Krusty.

Don - Are you hammering the double ferrules on or using a swager? Using a swager they come out smaller than when you started which is the big reason I switched over ferrules and paid for a swager. Just to have that smaller profile on my snares.

Clark

Annealed nuts have been heated and cooled to remove the temper and make them softer. It also softens the threads inside the nut so it does not cut into the cable breaking strands but rather just grabs on.

Guys hammer on a ferral and hammer on a nut on the other end. Pull it til something gives and see where the weak point is. My guess is the ferral will slip or the cable will break before the nut slips. Take some pictures and see.

~ADC~

edit: forgot to say tropyhunter, you can either buy annealed from a trapping supply place or make your own. Lynx Cat can tell you how to make them.

My tests were actually higher than that, but there are so many variables to see a consistency, the testing procedures themselves would have to be scientific in nature. There are 2 kinds of double ferrule design. One has 2 individual holes connected with a marginal space between them. There is also a design that has one oblong hole that is big enough for 2 strands to be side by side. They tested differently. The tests also varied on what manufacturer's ferrules you used. Some aluminum was harder while some stock had thicker walls. You also have different crimper variances and this can sway results dramatically. How one crimps the ferrule makes a big difference too.(2 crimps? 3? 4?) You also have cable that is more greasy that others. This makes a difference on single stops.

I've found aluminum double ferrules crimped full to hold up enough to where the cable has broke before the ferrule slipped off, which was hardly ever.

Where snare men should consider using nuts to secure cable is when 1x19 cable is used. It's design being smooth is one reason why aluminum swaged doesn't hold well, but also there's no area for the aluminum to compress into. With 7x7 cable there are voids in which the soft metal can fill. This is why aluminum holds up so much more using 7x7. The striations of the 1x19 are so minuscule, the aluminum doesn't get a bite. No bite, no strength.

I've tested over a 100 swages, so I do have some data that I rely on. If you use the common size annealed nuts that are for sale commercially by trapping supply businesses, they'll suit most your needs using 7x7 when making snares, looped ends and disposable anchor contacts(loops)... and hold up to any coyote that you catch.(variances include how you make them, how much cable you allow to stick out and how much smashing you do)

If you have many cable connection jobs to do, swaging is much faster than hammer smashing... and that too depends on the swager and how efficient you are at using it. For the most part, nuts have their purpose and since a coyote won't fail either the nut or ferrule when done properly, it comes down to personal preference, money and time.

Snareman

aluminum or copper ferrules ARE NOT rated for lifting.

I remember seeing a post on how to make the annealled nuts, it had pics and descriptions on thow to strip the nuts, start some charcoal in a hole and put the wire of nuts in, cover wil coal and dirt. dig it up the next day and the nuts are annealed! It was a good post but I can't remember were I saw it! I will keep looking!

Hey Konan it probably went the way of the Lynx/Cat Trapper.. Just a thought....

seached it, and two other forums! I know I printed it off and took it home. I keep much of the things I think I will find useful in a binder for future reference in case of a crash!

If I find it I will try to post a link on here, but that likely will not be until Monday night

Nuts Vs Alum ferules
This was copied from his the page above.

A word or two about building a good strong snare using steel nuts.

• I would like to start by mentioning the following. Here in Alaska we spend a considerable amount of time trapping and snaring wolves, wolverine and otter. These three animals are probably the toughest, most aggressive animals ever held in a set. The wolf, wolverine and otter will all do major damage to your set in attempt to free themselves. That is why our sets have to be built tough and built to kill quickly! Fact:
Hammered on steel nuts provide a much stronger hold than hammered on aluminum button stops. In fact, hammered on steel nuts proved even better than crimped on aluminum stops!
Note: See details below for "crimped systems". Also see page on "Using Swaggers".

I think that ultimately it depends on the individuals preference in making their own snare or cable stake. I'm sure bobcatmatt has figured this out by now...so to carry this further off-topic I have to say this:

I personally use double ferrules when the situation is necessary. I have avoided the hammered on nuts as they are a pain to assemble and look huge on a snare. Properly crimped I have never had a double ferrule fail on me. Nor have I ever had an annealed nut fail on me. In fact, I don't think there is a furbearer that would ever test the strength of either in a snare.

For me, the double ferrules hold very well and they look professional and clean. They are smaller when crimped on a snare and help my snares maintain a low profile when they are hung.

Clark

Clark, I am using a swedger.