What's the best way to store green pelts untill the fur buyer buys them?

I would just put them in a bag in the freezer fur out
But don't stack em on top of each other at one
Time or they won't freeze fast enough!

Try posting this on trapper talk you will
Get more feedback!

+2

You can suck the air out with a vac I'm told . Haven't tryed that but sounds good

After back-clicking three times and finding that I was really on the ADC forum: what the heck do green pelts have to do with ADC work? ( Oh Yeah, I forgot: all our pelts are green )

I sell the pelts if it's season and there prime . Getting paid on the same animal twice is very nice .

If they're in season and they're prime, you're going to skin and stretch them. They won't be green. I've got to admit that there

was a time when I thought double dipping was terrific. Now I use my time in the skinning room to catch more animals and I make

three or four times more money. I don't know of a single trapper or ADC guy that thinks skinning is more fun than catching.

I can't afford the fines or loss of licenses.

How do the legalities work in MI? I can not imagine having the desire or time for skinning. Just not something of any interest...

I like putting fur up almost as much as fur trappin
Itself! Nothing like the smell of drying fur and a cold
Beer slipping out of greasy coon hands listening
To some hank jr

Good question Dave. I know as long as you're in season ( and you have to have a Wisconsin trapper's license to do ADC work ) you

can skin and sell anything that's legal. I also know that a lot of states don't see it that way.

MI has some convoluted language...just have not taken the time to trace it out. Anyone care to post an intrepretation?

Kasey, you said "almost". You'll get over that "wonderful" smell as you get older. ( Maybe not the beer though )

Paul....your still pretty sharp...for living near a bunch of breweries.

A fur trapper will always be a fur trapper. Just because I am a NWCO hundredair, does not mean you little dirt people are out of my loop.

Cannot help myself. Please don't rat me out to the man. But, I just have to skin that XXXXXXXXXXL silver boar coon whacked in the attic. His tanned pelt looks no different than a creamy December.

Funny you should bring that up. My grandson and I were talking and I told him I hadn't had a beer in 33 years. Since he looked at me like I was lying, I told him to ask his grandma. Beer and I had always got along way too well. And the cost back then was less than you pay for water now.

LIVE ANIMALS AND SALE OF ANIMALS
The statewide wildlife regulations clearly prohibit any person from removing game or protected animals alive from the wild.
Exceptions include: 1) a licensed wildlife rehabilitator may hold wild animals specifically for rehabilitation and release, and
2) a person issued a Wildlife Damage and Nuisance Control Permit may hold an animal in captivity for no more than 24
hours specifically for release or disposal. Under the authority of a physician's request for legitimate public health concerns,
or Department request, captured animals may be temporarily held for a longer period of time. The sale of wild animals, dead
or alive, and their parts is also strictly regulated in Michigan. Except for the specific provisions applying to live trapped feral
14 IC2004-3 (Rev. 10/12/2011)
pigeons and dead animals taken during the open season by a person licensed under the hunting and trapping laws to take that
game in areas closed to hunting and trapping, no animals or their parts may be bought, sold, given away or bartered by a
permittee. In addition, these animals, whether dead or alive, cannot be retained by a permittee and converted for their
personal use.


Source: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/IC...it_368507_7.pdf

I have been getting more and more into ADC over the years and I love it! Other than beaver trapping, ADC work is COMPLETELY different than fur trapping.I try to keep the two separate.I do fur trapping for fun in my free time,I still love trapping and skinning fishers,mink,rats,coon and well, I love beaver trapping but skinning them,not so much!(but it still gets done)If an animal can be used it will.

OhMyGosh, "can't be converted for personal use." Pesky will starve!

N.y. allows it during the open season and you have to hold a rec trappers license also.NWCOs here must have furbearers trapping license or a furbearers trappering training cert. to be able to use any footholds or body grippers over 4.75".
I love trapping for fur.To be able to get out in the wild and catch species that are not the norm in NWCO work.Not to mention that in my area relocation is not allowed or is very restrictive.Most animals trapped here get euthanasized.I would rather use the season to utilize the animals.Being we have 100 coons per sq. mile I offer my first time paying customers free trapping of furbearing species during the open season .I am guilty of doing a favor or two for the unfortunate who can not afford my services in exchange for permission to trap during the season.
I can't say though that I like skinning more then trapping ,but I do take pride in putting up my fur.

I'm a fur trapper and proud to say so that's what this site is all about . Fur trappers that do ADC work as well . Michigan you can sell your catch if it's trapping season . I eat beaver because I love that sweet taste . I make some killer stew I tell ya . I even can it and take out fur trapping for lunch . If you don't wish to skin beaver and sell its fur and castors and eat its meat I don't have a problem with that but come on a fur trapping site and nock on me because I do . Where trappers that love to live of the land . Grow gardens . Make are bait . We live forit it's not something you out grow its something your willing to die doing . It not just catching fur it's a life style . You don't get that I truly feel sorry for you .

Well actually this is the ADC forum and it's about people that make their living by doing a lot of things; animal removal being a part of it. But if you want to talk fur trapping, there is a forum on here just for that. Don't feel sorry for me Pesky, I'm having the time of my life.

No Paul it's right at the top of the page No anti trappers . Look up . Yes a little higher on the right

Ryan - the interesting thing is that I have an interest in the outdoors and can appreciate your passion for fur trapping. Although, I do not have an interest in harvesting fur, I can imagine that it is similar to the joy of fishing. I have learned that you have raised pheasants....well, I have done that too. Also, I have raised blue scale quail, california valley, hungarian partridge...whoopie.

The point is that the law is written in a way that is different than your interpretation. I do not believe that you will take the effort to search out the answer, so I provided it. I am sure that you could get a letter of interpretation from the DNR, if the law is not clear for your particular situation.

Other threads, you indicate that is is acceptable to whack woodpeckers without a permit. My fear, is that you will spread this disregard or misinformation to others. Why do you think that you are you above the law?

If I am a anti-trapper....have me booted! I have better things to do with my time.

I see what your saying Dave and your right where not aloud to harvest fur under the control permit . That is wrote in to protect from people gaining a permit just to take animals out of season or in areas not open to trapping or hunting . you can still harvest animals under reg trapping or hunting lic if the area is open to that and the animal is in season . Just because a animal is causing damage doesn't mean the animal needs to go to waist if it's covered under reg rules . That's where the all reg trapping rules must be followed part comes in .

How do you get paid twice for an animal taken under the regular trapping laws without converting from your ADC permit to a regular fur harvests license?

I can see Ryan with a fur harvester license going into the woods to trap beaver.

But then, we have Ryan from Pesky Critter Removal getting called by the public, providing advice, driving a commercially marked vehicle, trapping, collecting money, paying taxes, reporting captures to the DNR every permit renewal year. How does he get to skin animals taken under that permit...and get paid twice?

I think it's A little unclear because it says game
In areas not allowed for trapping and hunting! So
If the person with the permit is in the country he could
Possibly retain the animal?

"Except for the specific provisions applying to live trapped feral pigeons and dead animals taken during the open season by a person licensed under the hunting and trapping laws to take that game in areas closed to hunting and trapping no animals or their parts may be bought, sold, given away or bartered by a
permittee"

It reads that a licensed hunter/trapper can take a dead animal during the hunting/trapping season on a property that is closed to hunting/trapping. The language explicitly states that a ADC operator can not convert an animal for personal use (that is a different permit...than the fur harvester license). Also, the language, in this sentence, does not say that a licensed hunter/trapper can take a live animal...or kill an animal on lands that are closed to hunting. Perhaps, that is stated elsewhere??

Let me think of of instances there this seems to apply (feel free to add more):
You find a deer that has been hit by a car in a residential zone - a licensed hunter can take it.

BUT a ADC permit is required to provide the service to people! A fur harvester license does not!!!! And, you can not convert from one to the other........

Gentlemen,

The animals we capture are a renewabale natural resource. I believe it is our responsibility to utilize this resource if there is a legal opportunity to do so, even if we have already been paid for it once.

Back when muskrat prices were very low, I took the 'rats I captured, from an international bank facility, and had them made into earmuffs. I gave these as gifts to my bigger clients. You talk about good will!!! They all loved them.

During this time my wife and I also had a comforter made for our bed!!! My wife got a let out muskrat jacket, my mother has one now too, we just got one for my mother in law. My kids all have teddy bears made from beaver and muskrat. The teddy bears make great gifts too.

Last year prices were up so I processed and sold the furs from the animals we caught during season. Got about $3000. I dont know about you, but thats not peanuts for something I would normally have to send to the dump. I can skin about 10 raccoon an hour. It takes me about 6-10 minutes to flesh a coon and put it on a wood board properly. At $20 per coon (I averaged $20.25 this year) thats about $100 per hour in wages. I certainly think that is worth it. I averaged $11.35 on rats. I can skin and put up about 15 rats an hour. Thats over $165 per hour.

I intend to do an article for WCT on this particular subject. I wonder if "Tertiary Income" is something the WCO community would be interested in? Any thoughts?

Once again, I believe we have a respnsibility to utilize our resources in an effective and efficient manner whenever possible.

Dirk - I agree with that thought. Perhaps, the language in the law needs to be changed. However, one can not pick and choose when to comply! For example, perhaps, I think that the speed limit on expressways should be 80 MPH...can I just drive that fast?

The rules are very hard to under stand sometimes . I have checked these rules and made sure it was legal . A deer needs.a permit from the police if you plan to keep it . Just to remove and dump the reg damage permit is needed . NRC mandates are where the real rules are found . The posted rules are just a gen over look and have a disclaimer saying this . I have no reason or wish to go against these NRC mandates . I know the COs in my area very well as they know me well . I have talked to them about the rules and sometimes they will have there lawyer do reaserch for me on these laws if they don't know the answer . Small game lic and fur trappers lic needed year around to do damage control under damage permit . Deer lic not need to remove and dump dead deer found in people's yards . I have had the COs check with there lawyer on these rules .

Fortunately or unfortunately, it really doesn't matter how Dave or Pesky interpret the law. It's how the local game warden interprets it. And if your CO's are anything like mine, every one of them has a slightly different take on the law.

I'd say, just do what you think is right until told differently by the game warden.

btw, I think Dave is wasting his time running a wco company. He should have been a corporate lawyer.

Thanks, SGS. I think you need to be well rounded to run a WCO company. However, if you want to harvest fur....get a fur harvesters liscense!

Pesky - the damage permit is all that is required to perform the actions authorized under the permit.

There's a fur buyer right up the road from you in otisville . J&m furs . You could save them up and they take the whole to , no need to skin just freez to you get a few then go get some gas money .
4.3 Buying and selling.
Sec. 4.3 A person may buy, offer to buy, sell, offer to sell, or exchange for anything of value animals or parts of animals only as provided in this section:
(1) The fur, hide, pelt, plumage, or skin of game, lawfully taken during the open season or raised under the authority of a permit to hold wildlife in captivity, may be sold or offered for sale by the person licensed to take the game or the person permitted to hold wildlife in captivity.
(2) The carcass and parts thereof, of fur-bearing animals lawfully taken during their open season or lawfully imported from another state, territory, or country, may be bought or sold.

Let's explain it another way...

Your quote above would work, if I were personally trapping using a fur harvesters license.

However, we perform ADC work under the general permit. The permit is required to do the ADC work on behalf of another individual (your customer). The permit does not allow me to convert the critters to personal use and sell the fur.

The fur harvester's license allows one to trap for themselves personally. Similarly, you can not harvest a deer and use your mother's tag.

Does this make sense?

Yes it does Dave that protects from people getting a permit to just take animals out of season . Same goes for people getting a permit so they don't need to buy a small game or fur trappers or fur harvesters lic . Guy shoots a rabbit DNR walks up lets see your small game lic guy hands him his free damage control permit and points to a tree , that rabbit was about to cause damage I don't need a small game lic . Oh ok the DNR officer said I didn't notice the rabbit about to attack that tree .

These home owners can be really something with damage control. Let animals linger . There should rule books sold with each trap or a sign or something . In Michigan if your live trapping animals in your yard there are rules as there should . Yes I harvest but I don't mistreat . Live trapping animals with seasons you need a fur trappers lic . The animals with no season you need a small game . Your name must be etched in metal with address or drives lic number . Shooting animals with season you need a fur harvesters lic . This is the most mis understanded DNR rule and that comes right from the lips of the head DNR guy . There's also a 24 check law and there's no point in going on about that we all know what's up with that . This rules are posted in all different mis print ways . You read it one way you don't even need a permit to do damage control for coons . There's even a rule that a fur buyer can't trap beaver . So if your a fur buyer you can buy them but can't trap or do damage control for beaver . I know Dave you don't agree so let's just agree we don't agree . I dont wish to argue with you and I'm sorry if I stepped over the line on that one job and haven't ran into that problem again and if I do I'll make sure I don't cross the line . I have tried send as many jobs your as I can for clean outs . We should be going fishing together not arguing over some coon pelt it's just stupid . I handle that first problem When are paths crossed very well I thought . I placed a call to you and gave info and also pointed out that it wasn't you that hadn't done the work to the customer . I never bid the house . Didn't even try to move forward after finding out it that you had been to the house . I just walked off and hope you did end up getting the exclusion job . I wouldn't have moved forward on the one job if I hadn't been refured by the lady's best friend . I see your guys on the road I'm friendly to them . If I seen one with a flat tire or something I would surely offer to help out .

This conversation has everything to do with ethics and learning a little more about the laws that affect us. The best way to learn is to take the time to investigate. I am not trying to prove you wrong....only to help you understand....and learn myself. I want you to be a sucessful and strong ADC operator. I want a strong industry. There is plenty of business out there....

And please, bid against me! It will make my team stronger. I just ask that you maintain a level of professioanlism. And no...we did not bid on the exclusion that you discussed either.

Also, we will no longer accept cleanout jobs where we did not do the exclusion. Send them elsewhere....

I understand your thinking on the cleanouts, Dave. Very professional! We do the same.

I think that this section might confuse people into thinking that a harvesters license is required. I will quote the section...then put it into trapperman language.

2) Permittees may, upon verifying the complaint of any person suffering damage or nuisance, effect control measures at any time of year within cities, villages, or townships closed to hunting or prohibiting the discharge of firearms.

In other areas of the state, permittees may, upon verifying the complaint of any person suffering damage or nuisance, effect control measures from April 1 to September 30. Notwithstanding the other provision of this subsection, permittees may, upon verifying a complaint of damage or nuisance, effect control measures at any time of year within the curtilage of the complainant.

For the purposes of this subsection, “curtilage” means the dwelling house, associated buildings, and associated yard used for domestic purposes. Control measures in areas and at times not otherwise provided by this subsection shall only be initiated on those complaints referred to the permittee by a wildlife biologist or conservation officer.


If you break it down, it is saying that you need the permit to provide ADC work. However, the permit does not allow you to control wildlife in areas away from a house in areas open to hunting, during the season. This is to prevent the ADC operator from hunting with a permit. Now, an ADC permit holder could control wildlife in the back 40 acres during the off season in areas normally open to hunting. However, the wildlife could not be harvested for fur. Now, a licensed fur harvester could trap these same wildlife, and harvest the fur during the season. However, it could not be to control wildlife on someons behalf. To contol wildlife for the public....you need the permit...and the captures can not be transferred for personal use. Boy, does this sound circular?

No, a small game or fur harvesters license does not help a ADC operator. It helps the trapper/ hunter that is recreating during the season.

Maybe someone that has been around a bit longer can explain how this language got into the regulations: "In addition, these animals, whether dead or alive, cannot be retained by a permittee and converted for their personal use".

I can not think of anything logical other than a group participated in the formation of the regulations... and they did not want ADC operators flooding the market with pelts! LOL

Here is the thought process, that I am following for Michigan. Let me know if I am way off base....

Ohio DNR made this simple for us.

Meat eating animals captured out of season, euthanized or released on site.

Those who posses fur bearers linc. may sell animals fur or parts during open fur season.

Not quite but close enough:
(E) Persons possessing a nuisance wild animal trapping permit may charge a fee for removal of nuisance wild animals. It shall be unlawful for any nuisance wild animal trapper to sell any wild animals that he/she traps. Except, the nuisance wild animal trapper may sell the carcass of raccoon, opossum, beaver, and muskrat at any time. Hides of furbearers acquired during the open season under the nuisance wild animal trapping permit may be sold only during open season for furbearing animals.

It is interesting how different the language reads from the intrepretation. People need to really look at it closely. Anyone wish to post other state regs on this topic?

Sorry, whatever a reg is, we don't have them in Wi. ( I guess that means we're unreg. )

If you look rule 4 this is how it was explained to me about needing a reg trappers lic and a small game . Must follow all state laws and having a reg lic is one of the laws. The permits lets us do extra things but not buying a lic is not one of them .

5.52 Nuisance animal control businesses, public nuisance animal control agencies and non-profit nuisance animal control organizations, permit issuance; requirements.
Sec. 5.52. The wildlife permit specialist may issue a permit to a reputable nuisance animal control business, public nuisance animal control agency, or non-profit nuisance animal control organization for the purpose of taking certain animals causing damage to personal or real property. A person issued a permit under this section is subject to all of the following requirements:
(1) Permits shall expire on the third March 31 after the date of issue.
(2) Permittees may, upon verifying the complaint of any person suffering damage or nuisance, effect control measures at any time of year within cities, villages, or townships closed to hunting or prohibiting the discharge of firearms. In other areas of the state, permittees may, upon verifying the complaint of any person suffering damage or nuisance, effect control measures from April 1 to September 30. Notwithstanding the other provision of this subsection, permittees may, upon verifying a complaint of damage or nuisance, effect control measures at any time of year within the curtilage of the complainant. For the purposes of this subsection, “curtilage” means the dwelling house, associated buildings, and associated yard used for domestic purposes. Control measures in areas and at times not otherwise provided by this subsection shall only be initiated on those complaints referred to the permittee by a wildlife biologist or conservation officer.
(3) Permittees shall be authorized to undertake control measures on the premises of the complainant for the control of bats that are not threatened or endangered and the control of coyote, fox, weasels, mink, raccoon, skunk, opossum, woodchuck, badger, muskrat, squirrels, ground squirrels, rabbits, English sparrows, feral pigeons, starlings, and crows. Permittees shall also be authorized to undertake control measures on the premises of the complainant on beaver on private lands in zone 3 during the closed season; however, beaver shall not be live trapped and relocated or translocated without authorization of the wildlife management unit supervisor. Control of damage by other wildlife shall be undertaken only as authorized by a wildlife biologist or conservation officer. Control of damage caused by protected migratory birds shall require a federal permit.
(4) To effect control measures, permittees may use foothold traps, body gripping or conibear type traps, live traps, firearms if possessed and used in compliance with all applicable state, local, and federal firearm laws and colony or multiple-catch traps for species other than muskrat. Colony traps may be used for muskrat if used in compliance with subsection 3.600(5) [see pages 7-8]. To effect control measures, permittees may also use snares if one or more of the following conditions are met:
(a) Year around for permitted species within the curtilage of the complainant.
(b) Year around for permitted species upon the premises of the complainant if completely submerged in underwater sets.
(c) Year around outside the curtilage upon the premises of the complainant in the Lower Peninsula for the control of fox and coyote if the snare meets the requirements of subsection 3.609(2), subdivisions (b) through (j) [see page 8].

Opossum, porcupine, weasel, red squirrel, skunk, ground squirrel, woodchuck, feral swine, feral pigeons, starling and house sparrows may be taken year-round with a valid Michigan hunting license. See the State Park and Recreation Area restrictions on page 17.
NOTE: For nighttime hunting and furbearer hunting/trapping information see pages 2


This is reg state law and these animals you need a small game . The other ones that have no bag limits you need trappers lic . All other problem animals like deer or bobcat you need a special permit

If look at rule 4 it's there again . Dosent say except you don't need a lic . And look a rule 6 if you can't buy a lic ,your permit is no good
. This permit let's us do extra things but not paying for a reg lic isn't one of them
PERMIT CONDITIONS
The applicant/permittee’s signature on a Wildlife Damage and Nuisance Control Application and Permit form (PR 2004) certifies that the applicant/permittee:
1) Has read and understands this Information Circular (IC 9152) and the application/permit form (PR 2004) and agrees to abide by all requirements therein.
2) Understands that questions regarding the rules and regulations governing this permit should be directed to the DNR, Wildlife Division Permit Specialist, PO Box 30444, Lansing, MI 48909-7944, 517-373-9329.
3) Understands that making a false statement on the application/permit form; or failure to comply with the provisions of this permit, is a violation of state law and may result in the revocation of this permit, and criminal penalties.
4) Understands that this permit does not provide any authorization to circumvent any federal, state, local laws, or any other local zoning and ordinances, and that it is the applicant/permittee’s responsibility to know and comply with federal, state, and local laws.
5) Understands that this permit does not provide any authorization to discharge a firearm in a location where the discharging of a firearm is prohibited.
6) Understands that persons under a hunting, trapping, or fur dealers license revocation are ineligible to obtain this permit for the period of their revocation.

Rule 6 explanes how you can sell fur and not just waist that animal

(5) Permittees may sell live nuisance feral pigeons live trapped during legitimate nuisance control operations.
(6) A dead animal taken by means other than pesticides during the open season for that animal may be disposed in any manner provided by section 4.3 [see page 8] of this order if the person disposing of the animal is licensed to take the animal under part 435, hunting and fishing licensing, of the natural resources and environmental protection act, Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994.

This sec 4.3 from rule 6 above . No its not written simple .

4.3 Buying and selling (excerpt)
Sec. 4.3. A person may buy, offer to buy, sell, offer to sell, or exchange for anything of value animals or parts of animals only as provided in this section:
(1) The fur, hide, pelt, plumage, or skin of game, lawfully taken during the open season or raised under the authority of a permit to hold wildlife in captivity, may be sold or offered for sale by the person licensed to take the game or the person permitted to hold wildlife in captivity.
(2) The carcass and parts thereof, of fur-bearing animals lawfully taken during their open season or lawfully imported from another state, territory, or country, may be bought or sold.
(3) The antlers of deer, elk, and moose and the skull of black bear lawfully taken may be bought or sold. The teeth, claws, flesh, bones, or internal organs of game, other than those species listed in subsection (2), shall not be bought or sold.

Thats kinda wierd I never noticed if you have a captivity permit you can sell the captive animals fur . So I guess there is a way to save up raccoon till there prime as long as you follow your captivity permit . Not that I wish to go there . Just didn't think that was possable .

Look up the definition of the word "revocation" that is used in rule 6 twice. It will change your whole thought process.

This is how I read it: If you were busted under a different DNR law, and we took your license away, then we won't let you obtain a permit to operate a wildlife business. But, if this has not occurred, then we sure appreciate the support if you purchase all these other licenses too!

When I get a second, I would be happy to call to see if I can get clarification for you. As I understand it, there are two points of confusion. First, the thought is that ADC pelts can be sold. Second, that another license (small game / fur harvester) is required in addition to the permit. Maybe, I can get a written answer to post.

My thought, is that that a fur takers license allows one to trap and sell fur. But it does not allow one to trap on behalf of another person. The ADC Permit allows one to trap on behalf of another person, but does not allow you to sell the fur. If you trap under the ADC permit, you follow those rules. If you trap under the fur takers lisc, you follow those rules.. You can not mix and match.

(2) A property owner or their designee may take raccoon all year on property owned by the person when raccoons are doing or are about to do damage to the person's property. A person taking a raccoon under the authority of this subsection shall be considered a permittee as defined by section 5.50 of this order. A written permit is not required, and the person shall be authorized to take raccoon all year by otherwise lawful hunting and trapping methods. Notwithstanding the other provisions of this order, a person taking raccoon under the authority of this subsection may take raccoon at night from July 15 to September 14

Beaver pelts taken on a permit may be kept or sold through may 15th if the permit writer checks the appropriate box on the beaver permit.

For a moment, I thought you found a loophole. That language says that a landowner or guest would not need a written permit...and would be considered a permittee. However, a permittee is not allowed to sell the fur. This section basically states that anyone can take raccoon that are about to do damage using lawful trapping/ hunting methods. It does not benefit you and I...we already have a permit.

Don't you wish that the State used liscensee instead of permittee?

This is a good show to watch . Dean molnar the chef of the DNR was on it and talking all about the animal damage lic needed . Claimed its the most mis understood law they have . If you go to the bottom of the page there's a link and says watch past episodes .then go back up and watch ask the DNR . I can't get to work on my iPad it's the wrong format or something . But it was the last show so this must be it . www.wcmu.org/tv/askthe.html