I'm a fur trapper and proud to say so that's what this site is all about . Fur trappers that do ADC work as well . Michigan you can sell your catch if it's trapping season . I eat beaver because I love that sweet taste . I make some killer stew I tell ya . I even can it and take out fur trapping for lunch . If you don't wish to skin beaver and sell its fur and castors and eat its meat I don't have a problem with that but come on a fur trapping site and nock on me because I do . Where trappers that love to live of the land . Grow gardens . Make are bait . We live forit it's not something you out grow its something your willing to die doing . It not just catching fur it's a life style . You don't get that I truly feel sorry for you .

Well actually this is the ADC forum and it's about people that make their living by doing a lot of things; animal removal being a part of it. But if you want to talk fur trapping, there is a forum on here just for that. Don't feel sorry for me Pesky, I'm having the time of my life.

No Paul it's right at the top of the page No anti trappers . Look up . Yes a little higher on the right

Ryan - the interesting thing is that I have an interest in the outdoors and can appreciate your passion for fur trapping. Although, I do not have an interest in harvesting fur, I can imagine that it is similar to the joy of fishing. I have learned that you have raised pheasants....well, I have done that too. Also, I have raised blue scale quail, california valley, hungarian partridge...whoopie.

The point is that the law is written in a way that is different than your interpretation. I do not believe that you will take the effort to search out the answer, so I provided it. I am sure that you could get a letter of interpretation from the DNR, if the law is not clear for your particular situation.

Other threads, you indicate that is is acceptable to whack woodpeckers without a permit. My fear, is that you will spread this disregard or misinformation to others. Why do you think that you are you above the law?

If I am a anti-trapper....have me booted! I have better things to do with my time.

I see what your saying Dave and your right where not aloud to harvest fur under the control permit . That is wrote in to protect from people gaining a permit just to take animals out of season or in areas not open to trapping or hunting . you can still harvest animals under reg trapping or hunting lic if the area is open to that and the animal is in season . Just because a animal is causing damage doesn't mean the animal needs to go to waist if it's covered under reg rules . That's where the all reg trapping rules must be followed part comes in .

How do you get paid twice for an animal taken under the regular trapping laws without converting from your ADC permit to a regular fur harvests license?

I can see Ryan with a fur harvester license going into the woods to trap beaver.

But then, we have Ryan from Pesky Critter Removal getting called by the public, providing advice, driving a commercially marked vehicle, trapping, collecting money, paying taxes, reporting captures to the DNR every permit renewal year. How does he get to skin animals taken under that permit...and get paid twice?

I think it's A little unclear because it says game
In areas not allowed for trapping and hunting! So
If the person with the permit is in the country he could
Possibly retain the animal?

"Except for the specific provisions applying to live trapped feral pigeons and dead animals taken during the open season by a person licensed under the hunting and trapping laws to take that game in areas closed to hunting and trapping no animals or their parts may be bought, sold, given away or bartered by a
permittee"

It reads that a licensed hunter/trapper can take a dead animal during the hunting/trapping season on a property that is closed to hunting/trapping. The language explicitly states that a ADC operator can not convert an animal for personal use (that is a different permit...than the fur harvester license). Also, the language, in this sentence, does not say that a licensed hunter/trapper can take a live animal...or kill an animal on lands that are closed to hunting. Perhaps, that is stated elsewhere??

Let me think of of instances there this seems to apply (feel free to add more):
You find a deer that has been hit by a car in a residential zone - a licensed hunter can take it.

BUT a ADC permit is required to provide the service to people! A fur harvester license does not!!!! And, you can not convert from one to the other........

Gentlemen,

The animals we capture are a renewabale natural resource. I believe it is our responsibility to utilize this resource if there is a legal opportunity to do so, even if we have already been paid for it once.

Back when muskrat prices were very low, I took the 'rats I captured, from an international bank facility, and had them made into earmuffs. I gave these as gifts to my bigger clients. You talk about good will!!! They all loved them.

During this time my wife and I also had a comforter made for our bed!!! My wife got a let out muskrat jacket, my mother has one now too, we just got one for my mother in law. My kids all have teddy bears made from beaver and muskrat. The teddy bears make great gifts too.

Last year prices were up so I processed and sold the furs from the animals we caught during season. Got about $3000. I dont know about you, but thats not peanuts for something I would normally have to send to the dump. I can skin about 10 raccoon an hour. It takes me about 6-10 minutes to flesh a coon and put it on a wood board properly. At $20 per coon (I averaged $20.25 this year) thats about $100 per hour in wages. I certainly think that is worth it. I averaged $11.35 on rats. I can skin and put up about 15 rats an hour. Thats over $165 per hour.

I intend to do an article for WCT on this particular subject. I wonder if "Tertiary Income" is something the WCO community would be interested in? Any thoughts?

Once again, I believe we have a respnsibility to utilize our resources in an effective and efficient manner whenever possible.

Dirk - I agree with that thought. Perhaps, the language in the law needs to be changed. However, one can not pick and choose when to comply! For example, perhaps, I think that the speed limit on expressways should be 80 MPH...can I just drive that fast?

The rules are very hard to under stand sometimes . I have checked these rules and made sure it was legal . A deer needs.a permit from the police if you plan to keep it . Just to remove and dump the reg damage permit is needed . NRC mandates are where the real rules are found . The posted rules are just a gen over look and have a disclaimer saying this . I have no reason or wish to go against these NRC mandates . I know the COs in my area very well as they know me well . I have talked to them about the rules and sometimes they will have there lawyer do reaserch for me on these laws if they don't know the answer . Small game lic and fur trappers lic needed year around to do damage control under damage permit . Deer lic not need to remove and dump dead deer found in people's yards . I have had the COs check with there lawyer on these rules .

Fortunately or unfortunately, it really doesn't matter how Dave or Pesky interpret the law. It's how the local game warden interprets it. And if your CO's are anything like mine, every one of them has a slightly different take on the law.

I'd say, just do what you think is right until told differently by the game warden.

btw, I think Dave is wasting his time running a wco company. He should have been a corporate lawyer.

Thanks, SGS. I think you need to be well rounded to run a WCO company. However, if you want to harvest fur....get a fur harvesters liscense!

Pesky - the damage permit is all that is required to perform the actions authorized under the permit.

There's a fur buyer right up the road from you in otisville . J&m furs . You could save them up and they take the whole to , no need to skin just freez to you get a few then go get some gas money .
4.3 Buying and selling.
Sec. 4.3 A person may buy, offer to buy, sell, offer to sell, or exchange for anything of value animals or parts of animals only as provided in this section:
(1) The fur, hide, pelt, plumage, or skin of game, lawfully taken during the open season or raised under the authority of a permit to hold wildlife in captivity, may be sold or offered for sale by the person licensed to take the game or the person permitted to hold wildlife in captivity.
(2) The carcass and parts thereof, of fur-bearing animals lawfully taken during their open season or lawfully imported from another state, territory, or country, may be bought or sold.

Let's explain it another way...

Your quote above would work, if I were personally trapping using a fur harvesters license.

However, we perform ADC work under the general permit. The permit is required to do the ADC work on behalf of another individual (your customer). The permit does not allow me to convert the critters to personal use and sell the fur.

The fur harvester's license allows one to trap for themselves personally. Similarly, you can not harvest a deer and use your mother's tag.

Does this make sense?

Yes it does Dave that protects from people getting a permit to just take animals out of season . Same goes for people getting a permit so they don't need to buy a small game or fur trappers or fur harvesters lic . Guy shoots a rabbit DNR walks up lets see your small game lic guy hands him his free damage control permit and points to a tree , that rabbit was about to cause damage I don't need a small game lic . Oh ok the DNR officer said I didn't notice the rabbit about to attack that tree .

These home owners can be really something with damage control. Let animals linger . There should rule books sold with each trap or a sign or something . In Michigan if your live trapping animals in your yard there are rules as there should . Yes I harvest but I don't mistreat . Live trapping animals with seasons you need a fur trappers lic . The animals with no season you need a small game . Your name must be etched in metal with address or drives lic number . Shooting animals with season you need a fur harvesters lic . This is the most mis understanded DNR rule and that comes right from the lips of the head DNR guy . There's also a 24 check law and there's no point in going on about that we all know what's up with that . This rules are posted in all different mis print ways . You read it one way you don't even need a permit to do damage control for coons . There's even a rule that a fur buyer can't trap beaver . So if your a fur buyer you can buy them but can't trap or do damage control for beaver . I know Dave you don't agree so let's just agree we don't agree . I dont wish to argue with you and I'm sorry if I stepped over the line on that one job and haven't ran into that problem again and if I do I'll make sure I don't cross the line . I have tried send as many jobs your as I can for clean outs . We should be going fishing together not arguing over some coon pelt it's just stupid . I handle that first problem When are paths crossed very well I thought . I placed a call to you and gave info and also pointed out that it wasn't you that hadn't done the work to the customer . I never bid the house . Didn't even try to move forward after finding out it that you had been to the house . I just walked off and hope you did end up getting the exclusion job . I wouldn't have moved forward on the one job if I hadn't been refured by the lady's best friend . I see your guys on the road I'm friendly to them . If I seen one with a flat tire or something I would surely offer to help out .

This conversation has everything to do with ethics and learning a little more about the laws that affect us. The best way to learn is to take the time to investigate. I am not trying to prove you wrong....only to help you understand....and learn myself. I want you to be a sucessful and strong ADC operator. I want a strong industry. There is plenty of business out there....

And please, bid against me! It will make my team stronger. I just ask that you maintain a level of professioanlism. And no...we did not bid on the exclusion that you discussed either.

Also, we will no longer accept cleanout jobs where we did not do the exclusion. Send them elsewhere....

I understand your thinking on the cleanouts, Dave. Very professional! We do the same.