Michigan has a lot of great things . Are fresh water fishing is most likely better than all the other states combined . So many lakes and rivers to chose from . Great natural runs of salmon and steelhead . Natural reproduction now . Hunting trapping just comes along with all that great water we have . Are walleye fishing rocks . Inland lakes even get stocked yearly again now . The state goes from riches farm land to the great north woods . We have huge areas of state land and national forest that just blankets the state . Open to hunting trapping camping or what ever else your in to . Commercial forest lands are open to the public . Are fishing hunting and specily trapping laws are very liberal compared to other states as well . I love this state you bet . No better place if you like the outdoors that's forsure . Do we need garbage shipped in from Canada and a new bridge to bring it no way . Should we be having un checked garbage trucks rolling into this country in this day and age no way . Will this state rock again in its industry might sure it will . This water is the key to shipping around the world . People in this state are workers they just need the work . There are still good things going here like mining . Copper , iron , silver, peat moss is mined like no other state . Farming has really turned on . Are farmers are still getting a crop this year and I would expect that to sell at top dollar for the ones that didn't sell it last year . Are smaller manufacturing company's that export are doing really well right now . Then the tech, robotic stuff leads the world in this state .Michigan is a very powerful state because of its work force and natural resources . This state will be the state to lead this country out but it surly hasn't happened yet and won't till they get the fuel price down bottom line . Or we could just switch are cars to natural gas . USA has the largest reserve of fuel right at are feet that burns clean . This whole solar ,wind thing is cool and can be used but it's just a front to rap you of every thing you own . Natural gas could send them problem country back to the stone age . Remove there value and there's no reason there are problem again . I hope everybody plans to vote

looks like was just forced to sit through an obama rally already!

michael

Are the rest of you as surprised as I am? When Pesky is watching television and skinning at the same time in his living room, the TV set is obviously turned to Fox News. Pesky does know a thing or two about how this nation operates. Good for you, Pesky!

I don't skin animals in my living room Paul not sure where your getting that . I guess your upset you haven't caught a raging coon or something . Maybe bump up the geritol and go outside and set some traps . Summers ending soon get some sun

Paul, I don't like educated raccoons. I also believe it is good for the overall health of the raccoon and skunk populations to put the deep sleep on all nusiance raccoon and skunks that I catch. Therefore maintaining a healthy carrying capacity for wildlife. Dumping nusiance animals off into an unfamiliar area doesn't seem that humane to me. Kinda like dropping someone from New York City off into the middle of Yellowstone National Forest. The survival rate is actually quite low according to some studies. I do think that it is much easier to release the animal somewhere else. But, I have to wonder is it the best and most professional way? I do lose a few jobs each year from being honest about the final disposition of captured wildlife. I also don't believe a customer who is calling me for help and advice should dictate to me how the job is to be handled.

Ponyboy - My business model and wildlife ethics don't have me relocating for many of the same reasons you list. I just wanted to support your viewpoint as it isn't one shared often. Recently I had a great discussion with a wildlife educator here in NM who shares that sentiment that we are allowing people to believe that the best comes from relocation of the problem. Rather than facing any actual truths we keep dumping animals in parks, greenspaces and other open areas without any sort of backing whatsoever.

In my state raccoon relocation is currently mandatory, so I only take exclusion work where it can be done without needing to trap. I have passed up jobs as you mention for the same reason. Even our state folks are starting to question this policy as again, there isn't any science behind taking them elsewhere and where they end up or how they end up and how quickly. The scant reports out of the midwest from years back aren't enough basis frankly to say either way, but the piles of relocation, translocation and reintroduction science say that they likely suffer and die or try to migrate back and die, either way....dead!

We also fail to realize most of the time that while we travel by bus, train, boat and car and spread our own germs (flu and otherwise) far and wide, animals of the size and stature we are discussing here, don't migrate long distances (more than 30 miles) and tend to not disperse that far either. This means that driving a truck full of critters a distance that will make sure they don't get back to the catch site, is actually putting them beyond their natural dispersal range and therefore creating an "unnatural" disease vectoring and biological mixing vessel.

I didn't start my business to just be a business man, I started it to manage wildlife the way I have learned and believe they should be. I follow ethics I can go to sleep with every night and those that I can look folks in the face and say this is how it is.

I don't look poorly upon folks who relocate because they desire the jobs, or because they follow state or other laws, but I won't do it until science tells me they live. I'm working on a collaboration right now to put my money where my mouth is and get some collars on in a well designed statistically significant project.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your reasons for doing what you do and I applaud your stance! If something can be excluded I do so, if it must be removed for me it should be lethally and with the homeowner understanding why.

Justin

?

Sometimes I really think that most of you don't get the big picture at all. You sound like some of our techs who have smelled skunk

and can't believe that I would relocate a healthy skunk just because there is a lack of them. Justin, you of all people, should

realize that those of us who relocate are not dooming the animal to predation. That large skunk I released is just as potent in the

west side of our city as he was on the east side. For every raccoon we trap ( well over a thousand ) there are twice as many dead

in the streets. If my relocated raccoon lives, that's fine. And if he doesn't, who cares? If relocating an animal meant any harm to

any human being, believe me, they would all be deader than a doornail. I have killed more animals than probably 98% of you so I

don't have a problem with it. I have rarely killed an animal unnecessarily, so why would I start now?

Paul,

Makes me think about an old friend who was planning to put a
chute in his rig, so as he left the neighborhood, he could drop
the one he just caught at the end of the block!

Future business right?

Problem is you, me, no one I know of can spot disease until it is
in the full blown end stage. This means waves of distemper, rabies
and parasitic diseases can ne spread all over from folks in the
industry and homeowners who DIY thei critter catching.

I prefer exclusion and managing the problems for individual homeowners.
I get why folks trap and relocate but you can't say they live and if they suffer
and die or home back to the catch site, how does this help?


As soon as that animal is moved from the catch site all types of
things happen.

I tell homeowners this... "relocation is for us as humans to sleep better
at night thinking we or our wildlife company did the right thing by releasing
raccoons in the country, when reality is far harsher."

Bear relocation out here runs about 80-90% mortality and is
followed with collars. If we monitored skunk, coon, squirrel and
others you can bet the result is nearly the same.

The other questions that arise are,

How far do you go to relocate various species?

Do you relocate in every season, for example when racccoons are
having litters?

How do you judge what animals are sick, or could be carriers?

Do you know the density of the species on the release site?

Do you cross any biological barriers that limit genetic interbreeding?

Any number of these and more are always part of reintroduction,

yet we know better and can just move and drop with no consequence?

Come on now? Say you don't care, but don't say it is right!

P.S. Are we havin fun yet?

I've been through all the arguments and I can't say that what you put forth isn't valid, in New Mexico, Florida, and perhaps all the southern states. I happen to live about as far north as you can get and not be Canadian.

Do I relocate everything? Of course not. I'm as sensible and compassinate as the next guy.

Do I believe that most of my relcated animals die. Yes I do. Predators need to eat too. And my animals are fresh, not rotting.

So why do I relocate? That's easy. We have had a skunk shortage for fifteen years. If only one out of a hundred skunks that I release, makes it, well at least that's one.

The disease argument holds absolutely no water in Wisconsin. If you can't tell that an animal is obviously sick, you're not looking! Releasing a diseased animal that looks healthy has certainly happened. ( Perhaps many times ) What affect has it had on the overall population of its species and any others in this area?

Well, let's see: after I and probably every other NWCO in Wisconsin has released animals all over the place for the past 24 years, here is what we've got; more animals of every native species including when the Indians were the only ones here! ( Okay, except maybe skunks and they're making a comeback too )

Animals are adapting to city life faster than city people are adapting to suburbia. The number of animals living in city housing far surpasses the numbers that ever lived in the trees.

Here is my favorite fact. The only animal that has a smaller overall population from disease in southeast Wisconsin is the striped skunk. And what was the only animal that was always destroyed? Yep, you guessed it. Didn't save 'em from disease, did it?

Justin, I promise you that if any of your warnings come true in the next 24 years, we will kill everything.

And yes Justin, arguing with someone like you is more fun than a man should be allowed to have. ( I think someone already said that )

Paul, that makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Another aspect to ponder is the other species that are impacted by releasing critters. I was talking to a DNR employee about impacted crayfish populations....the thought was the abundence of raccoons.

Dave, not sure about crayfish here but I know that our immense raccoon population is not impacting the frog population one iota. I have never seen so many croakers in my life.

I should also point out that for every raccoon I catch, I see two lying dead on the road. ( And no, I didn't release any around the highways. They got killed all by themselves )

I was thinking lethal traps was humane for winter squirrels (since we can not leave a sack of acorns with each one).....but now, I feel bad for the hawks. Maybe, mon, we, fri will be relocate days?

Paul and Dave,

Of course I love a good debate especially with folks who can articulate their point of view.
I'm heading for the mountains, get back to you with some other thoughts later.

Stay tuned...

Wink, just one point: relocating introduces an individual into unfamiliar habitat; if it's good habitat, then it's already populated with that species. So we get into carrying capacity, and animals competing for limited resources.
Obviously, with skunks, we have far fewer pred's than, say, squirrels; my point is, everyanimal has to eat and sleep somewhere: carrying capacity of every ecosystem is limited.
That having been said, I release many, many animals.

Nature is more adaptable than what we give her credit.

It's interesting to note that every year millions, if not billions, of young animals relocate themselves into strange areas where they don't know where the food is, don't know where the shelter is, possibly are carrying diseases, etc., and yet this works just fine.

Great point! Migrations....