We got everyone in the family to the polls; we all voted and we all lost. This has nothing to do with our business. ( Or yours ) Justin, Dave Kugler, and I would like to apologize to all of you because our states are filled with liberal morons. This will not prevent us from relieving them of as much money as possible in the next four years.

I am going to hazard a guess that the vast majority of you on this site will continue to be successful because you are working for yourselves and all the effort you put into your business will only benefit you. Local government affects you a hundred times more than the Feds. We are a business in our infancy and for every financial set-back, I'm sure there are a hundred ways, yet to be discovered, to increase our earnings.

Politics has no business in our business. We will take money from everyone. ( And especially those we disagree with )

Paul, I'm glad you said what you did, I've seen now several threads and posts about folks thinking this tanks their wildlife related business.

The day I can't go out and make a living doing what I know how to do because of a particular guy in the big white house is a day I'd better
just give up on life.

I understand politics and grew up in a household where my grandfather was a town supervisor for 16 years and the news was on 3 times a day
and the paper was read every day. I heard debates in that house from the time I was old enough to listen and understand words.

Wildlife won't stop being a problem to people, wildlife management is still needed, our services are still needed, the amount of commercial clients
who weigh their problem against their checking account and decide to wait on a bird job or other control might grow but the basic homeowner is
always going to have to decide whether you are worth it or not, and thats where our salesmanship in describing the actual problem and costs to
the owner come into play.

No matter who any of you voted for, our wildlife businesses should continue to be successful if we are driven to make them that way.

Justin

Justin, I agree with just about everything you said except the part about a particular political person being able to stop you from making a living doing a.d.c. work. In my state just such a bill was put on our governors desk and all he had to do was sign it and it would have made it illegal to do any kind of a.d.c. work for profit. The reason the bill was introduced was that the author of the bill felt the the private sector didn't understand how wildlife "works" and only people who work for the state were really qualified to do this type of work. Fortunatly for me and other private a.d.c. guys across the state the governor vetoed the bill. I am actually pretty surprised that he didn't sign it as he is really some kind of goof ball. I'am sorry to say Justin, if you think our livelyhood is based on demand and politics can't come into play "it just ain't so". No matter how driven you are,if they make it against the law to run an a.d.c. business, you are OUT of business.

We can hope that things aren't going to get worse but with ObamaCare and other policies coming down the pike, things can be much more difficult to have a profitable business. If your smart enough, work hard enough and a bit of luck, you can still make it.

Prob trapper, sorry, didn't mean that in the broad sense, you are correct, local politics can flavor your issues, I was mostly referring to the white house itself, but you are absolutely right and I didn't mean to be light about it.

My apologies, I guess in my life I've just learned that politics come down to way too much for the average folks to keep tabs on, everyone wants something for themselves and for their family and in the end for the country.

It is amazing that so many can agree and usually the agreement is based on the major priorities for folks, whether health care, human rights, abortion, ability to own firearms and other hot button topics.

I think the reference in Paul's post above to local govt. being more important is where I hang my hat. I keep tabs on the local doings, the governors issues and everything in between and keep my ear to the ground and know who to email and call if I need to roll a political ball uphill.

I started my company on my own private credit lines that thanks to my wife were as they should be and without any bank loans or family funds. We were lucky to be able to do that, but it would not have been any different with Bush, or Clinton or anyone else. Just sayin I think small businesses constantly are in the focus of debates, yet where is the funding? None until your in business and prove you can earn, then you can have some SBA money!

So again, you are right, my apologies, just referring to giving up on a business or startup because of who just got elected.

Justin

It was my belief according to my business prof that SBA money wasnt something you wanted to brag about, usually(or used to be) reserved for companies that didnt have a business plan that could convince a normal bank to lend you money.

Justin it's pretty obvious that we look at these types of issues pretty much the same way.I also started from scratch,no loans sba or other.What I didn't need at that time was another bll to have to pay.20 yrs. ago when I started this business I never gave it one thought that one day. my own govn.might try to shut me down! After all, building your own successful business is......was the American dream. After last night and what happeded here last week I'am not so sure now. It won't stop me from getting up every morning and going to work but I bet I pay a whole more attention of what the different antis are tryiny to push on my politicins.

I am kind of still shell shocked looking at the reality that there are more people in the wheelbarrow expecting others to carry them. Regardless of who ever won federal taxes were still going up 13% and times were gonna be tougher anyway

Did you get that you need to hand over an extra 13% in 2013 . That $100 service you sold this year should be $113 next year.
But now you have to figure in the new mandated medical tax (inflation yes its coming)So maybe that 100 dollar service is more like $120-125

Back in college I had a economics professor always talking about how the size of the pie never changed just who got their piece of the pie. Last night I seen my piece of my pie just get smaller yours did too and so did that customer's piece of the pie you need to charge extra too.

But its not over.

Well said Robb,

prices effective January 1st 2013 go up 12% on everything.....

You have to be ready to fight new legislation at all times as mole trappers in Washington found out. Bleeding hearts and corrupt politicians (most of them) ready to take your chosen profession away. In another occupation we got a bill passed in Oregon by paying each legislative supporter monies for their campaigns. We hired a lobbyist who knew who to pay off to get the bill passed. These contributions in the 80's were all over $10k. I have a strong hunch when these politicians left office the money went with them.

I know it goes against the grain but watch what new bills are being introduced and get ready to organize your fellow trappers.

I recently talked to my tax man and he said to plan on paying out 35% of my net. A sort time ago I removed my service plan pricing other than my current special. This allows me the flexibility to charge as needed to remain profitable. I feel that I set the priceline in my area and I saw a lot of others come and go when they tried to undercut my pricing by half. A few more have cropped up recently and after looking at their websites and pricing they won't survive. I don't mind competeting with others but I won't lose money doing so. I have weathered two droughts that made others give it up but I have built up a great A+ customer base and feel confident going into 2013.

On a final note just remember this - regardless of your opinion of the President HE IS NOW YOUR PRESIDENT and there is nothing you can do to change that. We are blessed with the right to vote and we all voted as our hearts and minds felt we should and no one is stupid or wrong with their choice. Instead of griping and moaning some should start using that energy to overcome their perceptions of the approaching problems their business will face in the future. If you have the idea that your business may not survive then NOW is the time to challenge yourself to turn things around. Here's wishing everyone the best in 2013!

Paul,

There's no need for you to take the burden of apologizing for all up your way. Fact is, my wife's folks are up there. They live near Black River Falls over on the west side above La Cross. From what I understand, even AFTER all my coaching and campaigning, they STILL voted for ole Elephant Ears.

I apologize to YOU Sir.... I should have done more than I did to try to persuade them back to the side of justice and right. I have failed you.

There are "givers" and "getter's". The real problem starts when the "givers" get tired of giving and then the "getter's" become takers. And that seems to be where we are at. What Obama and the Libs seem not to realize, as stated in earlier posts, is that we all have been accustomed to a standard of living for our labors and our choices are to work harder to stay at the same level or to raise prices to stay at that level. I can tell you I ain't going up the ladder more to pay for some slackers Obama phone.

A business doesn't pay taxes. Taxes are a cost of doing business that are figured into cost passed along to customer just as fuel costs or any other cost to do business. It is such a simple concept I don't understand how they miss it...unless they are not missing it and that is scary...because that path does lead to socialism.

The idea crossed my mind, after what Robb and Bud said to wait until the Federal tax increase comes through, then send a letter to all of our customers connecting our increase to what's happening in Washington. Some people need a constant reminder of the fact that tax increases in this economy are insane! Cut Spending!

Why wait? Get a jump on it now.

Amen....

Just watch millions over the next 90-180 days go from being the employed to becoming the unemployed.

There is no incentive for business innovation. No reason or reward to even take the risk of growing any US business today.

OBAMA REELECTION TRIGGERS MASSIVE LAYOFFS ACROSS AMERICA

http://nation.foxnews.com/2012-president...-across-america


Are Americans prepared for the mass price increases for products and services while taxes are going to increase for EVERYONE?

What's the incentive for building a business under these circumstances?

What does Obama Care mean to business owners?

Any company that has 50 or more full time employees must provide insurance to its employees or pay a $2,000 fine for each uncovered employee.

Consider a company that has 45 employees and wants to grow. They know that once they hit that magic number of 50, they MUST provide health coverage for all full time employees (if they aren't already).

To pay for this mandated insurance, they will either have to use profits (assuming they're profitable), reduce some employees down to part time, or raise the prices of their products and services.

What's the incentive for building a business under these circumstances?

Are these companies going to be able to remain competitive while raising prices or will they be forced out of business?

Are Americans prepared for the mass price increases for products and services while taxes are going to increase for EVERYONE?

Don't forget that now 30 hours a week is now considered full time under the new law.

1099 everyone. No employees now, just independent contractors.
I suspect if companies can get away with it they will.

You know guys, it's not that I don't believe everything that you've posted. It's just that while all this sobbing and hand-wringing is going on, many more Americans will add their name to the list of multi-millionaires. Now I certainly don't expect any of you to be one of them, but I also expect you to innovative enough to not only survive, but prosper.

Think of it this way; Would you rather be a wildlife controller, where nearly everyone loved you, or would you rather be president of the United States, where you knew that you where hated enough to have a large group of bodyguards trying to keep you alive?

We will thrive, despite him.

.....but you will be penalized for doing well. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/29/Seven-new-taxes

That's assuming that they know what I'm doing....

I like your line of thinking Muddawg. Don't any of you think for a minute that Obama is going to get enough money from the rich to pay for all of his votes. There have never been enough wealthy people to do that and there never will be. That one leaves two people left: you and me!

I studied up on obamacare.

If your employees make an average salary less than $50,000, then you can get a tax CREDIT for the business of 50% of the premiums starting in 2014. This pretty well guarentees that many people will have salaries capped at this rate or less. A businessman can make out well.

However, I like the idea that my employees have unlimited upside potential and that both smart and hard work are rewarded. I believe that this creates a culture of exceptional employees. Creating the culture, is the primary role of a leader.

Remember, there are two ways to make money. Make more....or spend less. Capping salaries and increasing taxes is a receipe for a lower standard of living.

Dave, I've been doing some research too and I've found the following several times...

"Everyone must purchase some sort of health insurance by 2014. At companies with fewer than 50 workers, that responsibility falls on the employees themselves."

So, if the above is true, it looks like the healthcare bill wont be affecting too many WCO's.

Yup....you will not be required to offer it...if you have under 50 employees.

However, they will need to obtain insurance. It may very well be less expensive to offer through the business....taking into account the tax credit. So...there may be incentive for a small business to offer it.

I currently offer health insurance. Employees pay the premiums (including myself). I am going to keep it that way, and forgo the tax credit. The primary reason.....I do not want to destroy the culture.

Since we already pay for our employees health insurance ( Don't get excited, it has a high deductible ) you would think that we would be delighted that Obamacare is going to give us a tax credit. Unfortunately I know how government works. If we get a $500 tax credit, our federal taxes will go up $1000.

The person in the white house does not run you business, but he has an effect on your profit margin.

I love the high deductible plan....coupled with a hsa. Smart move, Paul....

That is quite true Dave. Whenever the guys have a really good month ( That would be all summer long ) they have us stick money into their HSA account. The nice thing about the HSA account is that the tax exempt money can be used for anything even vaguely medical. ( Probably stuff like toothpaste, aspirin, Q-tips, etc. )

I just read over the counter stuff got booted. But, another good point....you can use it for retirement. Great deduction too!

And this is from the man who kept telling us he's for the "middle class". He's all about the middle class. The middle class needs this and the middle class needs that. He's gonna help the middle class excel. He LOVES the middle class.

Well, where does he think the middle class starts? It seems to me with this, he's trying to keep us from ever achieving "Middle Class".

Incentives for capping salaries seems like a perfect plan for creating more UNDERclass people. Or dare I say, "Dependent" class. $50,000 and up is where the majority of our taxes come from. You don't have to go far below $50,000 before you start getting some tax credits. Drop down a little further and now you're out of the tax paying public! I've seen family incomes as much as $30,000 where the tax payers actually get back MORE than what they paid in!(earned income credits and such)

So, by giving the employer incentives and tax credits for keeping salaries down, you're insuring that a large group of people stay on the government dole. The more poor and lower class people getting free stuff from our government, the more voters they control.

Hence, the second term of Obama.

The one thing that I will never understand is the millionaires that vote Democrat. I know a bunch and they just don't fit the profile of what the democratic party now stands for.

What is it you don't understand about it, Paul?

sqs, only you would ask that question. Romney is the one being accused of helping the rich get richer. Obama is the champion of the welfare recipient. Now if you're a millionare union representative, I understand. If you're a millionaire lawyer, I mostly understand. If you're a gun shop owner, I would certainly understand. Like I said, none of these people fit the Obama profile. I can almost guarantee you that I will get socked a larger tax increase than they will, so it's not a patriotic thing. I am truly befuddled as to why anyone would want to elect anybody from either party that would make the stock market drop and the price of gasoline go up 17 cents a gallon the very next day!

lol...

No, I'm not the only one, just the one who asked first.

There are many millionaires who believe in a strong federal government and an even stronger social safety net and don't mind paying for it. It's about that simple. They believe this can be best accomplished in the Democratic party.

That way of thinking isn't for everyone, obviously, but it really isn't hard to understand.

I'm not fond of the Democrats. Never have been, but after being a registered Republican for thirty something years I've quit that party too.

As for why someone would want the stock market to drop? Because that's when they buy up everything they can.

As for the gas, I doubt a millionaire even cares what the price of gas is.

It's just a different philosophy Paul. No better or worse than mine or yours. Just different.

sqs, thanks for that explanation. I'm going to breakfast with some buddies and since all they talk about is the two Ps ( Packers and Politics ) I'll be able to add something to the conversation.

Paul and SGS you are not alone yet, this is the extreme. There is a consensus growing that not only should Obama not run our business's but now includes this great nation too. More reasonable petitions include End to the War On Coal, end the job killing policies of the EPA and require an economic impact analysis of new policies.

Apparently many citizens have problems with the State of Our Nation today. Some of them feel the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers are no longer being reflected by the federal government.

http://www.examiner.com/article/15-state...united-states-1

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

15 States Are Gathering Signatures On The Whitehouse's Own Web Site To Peacefully Secede From The Union

Here is one of them:

Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.
The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio...rnment/BmdWCP8B
16,248 signatures it was 3,771 signatures as of 12:46 am Sunday

Florida has 4660 as of this moment and for the record I am NOT one of them. MI 2893, TN- 3201, SC-3001, CO-3538, OR-3075, NJ 2808, ND 2838, MT 3215, IN-3665, MS 3610, GA 3725, KY 3698, NC 4283, AL 4664 , LA 12, 960

The White House will respond to petitions submitted through We the People that comply with these Terms of Participation and reach the second signature threshold listed below. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/how-why/terms-participation

To cross the first threshold and be searchable within WhiteHouse.gov, a petition must reach 150 signatures within 30 days.

To cross the second threshold and require a response, a petition must reach 25,000 signatures within 30 days.

The right to petition your government is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Throughout our history, Americans have used petitions to organize around issues they care about from ending slavery, to guaranteeing women's right to vote, to the civil rights movement.

Just in case any of you think that Robb is making this up; I just read that the white house will respond.
Now remember, you read it here first, but I think I see in the very near future where those of you that live in the hurricane states will be paying a very different premium for home insurance than those of us who live in relatively safe areas.

P.S. Robb, are you aware of the You Tube video called Angel Flight? I'm sure almost everyone is. Wisconsin is the last state to get anything and then we think we discovered it! Since I had breakfast with a bunch of veterans, one of them sent me this in an E-mail.

Wink

18 states now.

This is not even 1% of our population and is just a developing news story.


Texas got its 25,000th signature about 2 hours ago. (32,379 @6:17 PM) that's over 16,000 signatures in less the ten hours.

Personally I just think we live in very troubled times.


And we may now know the reason the Mayan Calender stopped in 2012- !! lol

I could get 25,000 signatures in my home town and our population is less than that.

Now its 20 states



http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/i...ctory_20121112/

Texas Made the ABC News Website
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/texas-pet...ory?id=17701519

Even NY Made the NY Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-win-surge-petitions-secede-article-1.1200854

you guys kill me... get over it..

Actually Robb, that's not true. There are no states petitioning the government to peacefully secede.

None. Zippo. Zero.

These are petitions started by individuals. People who just want to express their frustration that their guy lost the election in a fun and creative way. Nothing more.

This nation is referred to as WE THE PEOPLE .

Think about it and it made ABC News not just T-Man.

Actually wiggler, since we have had to listen to the mainstream media defend liberalism in things like killing babies, homosexuality is wonderful, illegal aliens deserve our social security, etc., I think it's only fair that we get to have our say once and awhile. Even if it goes no where, at least a lot of people can get it off their chests.

x2

I can expand that "etc for" ya too Paul

LOL... spill your guts... we've had to listen to Mittens for a year... might as well not end the hate now. Lets keep it rollin.

To all of you Veterans of the Dept of Defense that's all "Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen" . If you have not looked into VA Medical entitlement please do and when you get enrolled remember to PM wiggler. lol

Wiggler

I have an MRI on NOV 26 and I will be thinking about you on Jan 2, 2013 when I have my third Colonoscopy.

Happy Veterans Day !! And God Bless The USA.

wiggler, I finally stopped hating when I left the unions and started my own business. The Democratic party I belonged to doesn't even come close to resembling the party of today. Their blindness is almost unbelievable. Don't they realize that ever illegal alien worker crossing the border costs them one union job? And people without a green card are really hard to organize.

We are a completely unbiased company. We work for Muslims, illegals, union guys, company owners, criminals, churches, etc. and one of these days we'll probably get an alien from another planet and we will give him the same wonderful service as the rest of our customers.

I put them all in the same sentence too.

I also never figured why the unions would ever back anyone without a fight that is taking away union members jobs.

Also Welfare before Obama was also never considered a career opportunity

Many of them older Obama Admin EPA Regulations have also sent many jobs Overseas. Not Mittens !!

http://reguations.gov website.

In the past 90 days, it has posted 6,125 regulations and notices – an average of 68 a day.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/obama-posts-68-new-regulations-per-day/?cat_orig=us

That many new regulations must mean they do want to run all business not just ours and probably will put many right into the ground.

Meanwhile as of (10:15 pm)

Land.... Slide....... hahahahahhaha Dont Be a Hater!!!!! its not good for your blood pressure.

robb... you cant be serious... or you knocked your head again... that is what Mittens was ALL about destroying companies and sending them to China.. come on... your educated.. think about it

Welfare.... LOL!!! and robb.. when they are shovin something up your hind-end... think of something pleasant.. like your President... LMAO!!!

I take Lisoprinil for blood pressure and it's almost FREE Wiggler . Thank you for your hard work paying my VA medical benefits. Work harder I may need more health care.

Landslide yeah right! Add Recount the Election to the list 34,604 Signatures.


Louisiana became the second state to surpass the Threshhold with 26,803 Signatures

Florida 18,763 Alabama 17,708 Tennessee 17,195 North Carolina 16,606 Colorado 13,106
Michigan 11,907 Missouri 11,177 Georgia 17,596 Texas 62,661 Signatures

Add Alaska to the list 1,804 Signatures

Al. You need to let it rest. First it was the Snyder election, then the Snyder recall campaign, then you posted crap for a year befor the pres election, now your guy won and you post on FB about you hope we can all get along but you won't let it go on here or Facebook. Take your own advice and don't be a hater. Oh and by the way. If Obama is so great then why are we even having these debates? If America is so unfair to the little guy then why didn't Obama fix it? He had 4 years and full control for 2 of them.

L A N D S L I D E!!!! he never stood a chance... the angry old white guys cant survive in today's world. Its not the 50's anymore... the world changes.. hop on board , or get left behind. its as simple as that. can you get a video of your rear-end operation? im wondering where there armadillo went missing from last summer...

Here is one of those Angry white men !!

Just 141% votes cast in St Lucie County Florida. Voter Fraud?? You betcha and Ohio is worse as is too many places to count across this GREAT Nation

A angry white man beat out this great man and Patriot and he is not a angry white man.

St. Lucie Co. voter turnout clarification still supports allegation of fraud

http://www.examiner.com/article/st-lucie-co-fl-announces-141-voter-turnout

Man, there is a ton of things to pick out from this string of rants, but I'll just keep it simple.

I grew up in a democratic household, grandfather who was retired army major from WWII and Korea
and he became town supervisor and held that position for 16 years before retiring. During that time
he also ran a successful small business that was run by our family and tended the land for wildlife
value and farming.

Growing up in the small town I did in upstate NY I saw migrant workers who were african american, their
kids went to school with us seasonally, then they moved to Florida and parts of the SE each year to pick
fruit as the seasons change.

By the time I was a teenager, we had Haitians and finally toward college in mid 90's we had nothing but
hispanic migrant workers.

Now here is my illegal immigrant punchline, the folks who owned the largest widespread fruit farms and
thousands and thousands of acres of agriculture, also employed the most illegals and were part of the
republican party. I would not know this, except growing up in a small town with a grandfather active in
politics, and friends, family, and the family of friends and family being close friends, you all know everyones
business.

When the immigration car wheeled into the picking scene, you'd see folks jumping from 20 foot picking ladders
and running through the orchard to escape.....not thinking they were packing green cards.

These republican farmers also received farm subsidies. Some of my best friends (still to this day) families would
take annual vacations to hawaii during the winter, buy new pickups and yet if it was a poor year for fruit prices
apples would remain on the tree because the govt. was going to pickup the tab.

I've seen the same thing happen out west here with the dairy industry and others, where I see hard working folks
also working a system that works for them and their kin folk.

I chose the illegal immigration issue to illustrate not that only republicans seem to benefit, but that both parties have
dirt on their hands when it comes to not only letting them in but not having a solution to fix the problem.

Being in my current state I have worked within spitting distance literally of the border, guess what? No fence? No wall?

Nope just repeated surveillance, manpower and sensors and other digital technology to help you find them. I've seen places
in the desert by the border in Luna County NM (look it up) where the desert looks like a plane full of clothes exploded and rained
them down all over the cactus and mesquite.

When I asked what the deal was, my fellow crew, who grew up in this area told me how this works, drug mules, women, men, children
pack drugs into the state, and then to get the system refreshed, they are provided clean clothes (drug free) and sent to the nearest
border patrolled area to be picked up, taken back across after a free meal and lodging and then the process begins again.

This system has been in place and hasn't changed under the last many presidents, both republican and democrat.

Drive through the El Paso area and look to the south off the interstate and see Juarez looking back at you in total squalor and it is
no wonder why people try to get in.

Couple that with too many folks in our own country not wanting to do manual labor and......you guessed it, there is a need for these folks.

The jokes that "sure build a wall, who do you think will build it" are really sad but true.

I grew up laying brick, picking apples, doing manual labor and never thinking it was beneath me. It still isn't, but we have tons of folks from
many generations, not just the new and young one, who think that tv, fame, singing, acting, or being lucky enough to invent something that
instantly makes them rich is how we get it done now.

Do I want folks coming in illegally? No I don't!

Do I understand why they come? Yes I do and anyone of us would likely do the same if we were seeking a better life for our family.

Does this system need to be fixed? Yes it does but no one, not Obama, not Bush, not Clinton or GB Sr. has fixed it.

The most honest statement in this country that anyone including those on this forum should make, is that we each are in this life for our
family, for our friends, our community maybe, and our country last.

If you are honest!

You may be sad if your neighbor gets burglarized or their house burns, but if your home experiences the same it matters far more as
it should.

I believe that above all we will not succeed as a country or a community or as individuals until we start seeing things holistically and
not just from the slanted view that each party may have, or that a particular interest group may have.

Growing up, back in 6th grade I can remember my buddies whose dads hunted (mine didn't, my mom and granddad taught me to hunt)
telling me because of my grandfathers democratic party, their dads told them they were going to lose their right to hunt and own guns.

That would be around 1980 ish..... My shotgun is still in the closet, my new pistol took me about 10 minutes to buy at sportsmans warehouse
in albuquerque. All of those friends living in many different states, still own their firearms and hunt.

Now I know the comeback to that is that the NRA and others have fought to keep this from happening and thats all fine and well, but my point
is that this too shall pass, and before long the dems and others who didn't want a republican or didn't like Mitt will be having the same conversation
and the same rants, just tweaked to those issues at the time.

So I understand it is everyones right to express their anger or ire, but the guy won, it happened, there is much to be gained by trying to move
forward and little to gain by standing still.

Yes I am a naive, pie in the sky, hippie lovin, equal rights supporting, pro choice individual, so those on the other side, can fully discount everything I just
said, but it doesn't make it false!

I favor a world where good folks work hard, get what they have coming to them. Be a good person and good things happen, that is truly the secret in life.

And it is what I live by.

Justin

guess I didn't keep it as simple as the first statement stated.... imagine that!

Well spoken Justin. Two thumbs up!

You touched on one thing Justin. No party or administration has fixed imigration or the debt or any other difficult issue because it is all about getting re-elected. Our politicians of both parties serve themselves and not us. If a canidate steps forward and tells us the truth about our situation, the people vote him out because the majority of the people can't handle the truth on what needs to be done.

Tom,

I would agree with that too! People like fiction, reality is a tough pill to swallow, life is tough and for many of us a long road filled with both good
and bad.

When I hear all the reports about what was spent to elect not only presidents, but congressman, senators and others, I wonder how many others think
we need to change this practice?

How can folks not see money can sway or buy elections and always has, and these days we are hearing numbers that are hard for me to wrap my mind around, yet we have so much debt?

People pay in to their parties to hopefully get what they want out of the treasure chest.

I will be the first to admit that the more I learn about anything that is politically contentious, the more I realize how little I know. Again most people won't admit that.

I was listening yesterday to a specialist on energy discussing the tar sands oil pipeline from Canada. I was thinking, hmm...sounds like maybe that will go forward and we'll get some cheaper gas, but then the specialist was asked, will we get cheaper gas here in the states?

The answer was, you will have a hard time tracking that and the heavier crude will go to diesel and be sold to Europe?

hmmm? More to learn, before I could make a decision....

Justin

you guys... this is nothing personal against you guys... just pokin Robb.. i should be the bigger man and drop it.. but Robb is so much fun to play with.. and i cant read these 2 page posts.. and Tom... if i bug ya on facebook I can solve that.

No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics

Refer to the top of the forum page. Have we forgotten what the ADC forum is for? Personally, I'm ready for this thread as well as other "political debate" and "president bashing" threads to die out or be moved somewhere else. Moderators?

X2 - Though I think the No Politics if you look at Trap Talk ever, is one that isn't regulated or followed at all...

Maybe in our smaller ADC forum it could be enforced to move things back to wildlife damage management and
all things ADC.

Justin

sorry... im done.. no more from me.

Al I can't believe you unfriended me because I simply called you out on what you were doing. I didnt' say anything untrue. Don't get me wrong, you have the right to do it. Just seemed like a lot of contradictions and unhealthy anger there. Heading up your way deer hunting now.

Hey Mike, I have to really disagree with you on this one! And I certainly hope that the moderators agree with me. Although the presidential election may not have very much to do with our business, more local politics can surely affect our business. ( Ask anyone from California )

While wiggler and I may disagree, we are not enemies. I have learned more about Justin talking politics than I ever would have in a face to face conversation. What Justin said is the absolute truth. The Republicans ( Of which I am one ) pretend they are so Holy and pious, and then you find out it is all connected to money. This broke my heart when I was a Democrat but it will never break my heart again. I understand that almost everyone running for office, has the good of the people on his mind. Then he or she gets elected, and all bets are off.

Do you really think that head of the CIA wanted to have an affair a couple of years ago? It is not just the love of money that is the root of all evil, it is mainly power! In the end, it is not what you wanted to do that counts, but what you actually did.

No problem Paul. I see this stuff in the newspapers, on TV, plastered all over the internet and then here and I have just had enough. Oh well, I guess I just don't have to click on the thread anymore. Perhaps the moderators should just take the "NO POLITICS" off the header. ;-)

Yeah Mike, you're probably right. While most of the topics on this site have more to do with trapping as a pastime, we on this site are primarily businessmen. Politics, especially local politics, can have a good or terrible effect on the welfare of our business and consequently the welfare of our loved ones.

I guess why close the thread... no one seems to be out of line and no one is hating one another yet ... every one seems to be respectful

Believe it. He likes Margarine and I like butter. We figured that out a few years ago. He has never accepted my FB request in 3+ years. Wiggler has always disagreed with me.

I was raised by Democrats. I grew up in a pro union family. My dad's family built cars or made steel and all retired with handsome retirement checks. The labor unions in my lifetime have bled manufacturers financially to the point that the only thing left to help the Laborer was to get rid of the cost of organized labor. "The Unions"

I also believe giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

IEFW


Florida became the third state with 25,413 Signatures and GA, AL, Tn and NC should all have over 25,000 signatures sometime tomorrow morning or earlier .

Texas 83,729 Signatures Louisiana 30,607 Signatures

................ and its not all just angry white men.

It is time to knock off some of this nonsense. The thread will slowly work its way off the active forum and will then be deleted. The BOSS, Paul Dobbins, has stated, many times that political posts must be related to the mission of the site.



There are many “political” forums on which to state your opinions. If there is something political that affects ADC operations, please post it.