I did a job in bama on a QDMA property in December. The wildlife manager was dead set on me not trapping yotes. They wanted to thin the doe herd and they think the yotes would eat possum and coon which would slow down the eating of quail eggs. I did a little resurch and got a few different opinions like always. All my other properties I work for say kill the yotes. And we get great results from what we do. Whats your take on coyotes eating quail eggs and adult quail? Some of these quail are pen raised.

Not an expert but my thinking is they approaching the issue backwards. I would be more worried about the coons and possums eating the eggs. IMO expecting the yotes to only thin out the does is a flawed concept. I'm in upstate NY and in some areas fawn mortality by coyotes in huge. They don't distinguish between male or female. Our coyotes run pretty big and we find many bucks that get taken down every winter. If it was my land and wanted to preserve my quail I would thin out the coons, yotes and possums and let the hunters thin out the does but I don't know what type of deer reg's you have in TN.

Paul,

I know there are a ton of published studies where quail nests were observed. You may have found these already. Many are from TX by folks like Dale Rollins and the like, but others I remember were conducted in GA/FL areas. I would be they are old enough now they would be free source publications.

If you found them already great, if not, try google scholar for a cheap easy way to search by subject/author/etc...

I believe that most of them pointed fingers as snoe mentions at the mesocarnivores of smaller size, raccoon, opossum, skunk, though of course, coyote, feral hog and others including snakes take their fair share.

Many of these were done using cameras observing nests, others observed what the nest looked like after predation and took clues and sign into account.

The cool thing I remember from one TX study was about quail nesting in prickly pear cactus which essentially worked as a fence!

Wildlife society bulletin has quite a few, as would journal of wildlife management (JWM)

(In relation to the adult bucks killed snoe, I'd want to know the deer were definitely killed by coyote (ie. not wounded, wore out from the rut, etc...) before thinking they are taking too many. While of course they can take down big game and do readily especially in groups, when you look at carcass signs
and have a fresh kill you can really see how many other things play in to these events.

Having spent years with sheep, cattle, deer and others where coyotes were always thought to blame and had to verify, there are plenty of other factors that play in either to cause the mortality or at least aid in the kill.)

Back on topic though, do they not allow doe hunting on this club, I would agree the best easiest way to manage your deer herd, they could even do a youth hunt or something if the "men" don't want to kill does.

Justin

Here is a link with "quail nest predation" already entered in. Just for example.

Justin

ps. you can tweak it by year to get more recent, not that older ones are invalid but new studies include
newer technology that actually visually identifies the events.


http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=quail+nest+predation&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C32&as_sdtp=

Last year they wanted to shoot 100 does 65 were taken. They only let family and friends shoot does and no bucks have been taken in 3 years. They are donating 8 does to our church for the hungry. And we are taking a mens retreat next year there for a father/son doe hunt. That will be good. Next year when I go back I'm gona offer me shooting a doe per yote I catch and donate it to church. And if they see a change in quail count great. If not well then I'm wrong.
Fire ants there are really bad and I suppose they could kill a few chicks also.

Justin, I agree with you that most adult bucks probably were injured or sick. My point being that for us in upstate NY winters are hard and food can be scarce for all. When spring comes animals are pretty hungry and fawn predation in some areas is high. I was having a hard time understanding how leaving the coyote population alone would help the issue with the deer or quail. Seems like in the end it would tend to compound the issue. Also my perspective on coyotes and their habits may be different than some. I live in the Foot Hills of the Adirondacks and our Eastern coyotes are not the same as the ones in the south or west.

Agree with you, grew up in Wayne county (upstate) but first coyote kill I saw was in Newcomb area while doing river otter latrine surveys many many years ago. They cornered an adult doe and you could see the action written in the snow.

Same in northern mich. deer yards in cedars. Tough to escape!

Justin

Justin, what brought a northern boy all the way to NM? Yeah... those deer yards have their good and bad points. Deer get fed but so do the coyotes. Funny how you go to some web sites and look up Eastern Coyote and they list the ones in The ADK as being some of the largest but only have them listed as 40 lbs. We routinely take animals well over 50 lbs and occasionally in the 60+ lb range. Do you still have family here? The population has gotten out of control and seems there is little we can do to keep it in check. Fox populations are down all across the state and grays have all but disappeared in many areas.

Snoe I was there targeting coon and possum. But they figured the coyote were also targeting coon and possum with deer also on there menu. I really think the coyote would fill his belly with easy to get quail rather then go for a possum or coon. And as far as running down a healthy mature deer when its 60 to 70 degrees. It may take to much energy. I have also seen in Illinois where deer are run onto the ice by the coyote so they can easily make a kill. They don't have those benifits in Southern Allabama. Deer yards and ice that is.

Very true Paul. Weather makes a big difference. Also here our boar coons take no crap from anything lol. Coyotes may take some young but that's about it. Not sure about your area but as far as possum go here they are about the last thing our yotes will eat. I have a pile in the woods now that has gone untouched all winter. Everything else is gone, rats, coon, beaver and fox piles. They just don't seem to have a taste for possum. Can't say that I blame them

So basically what you are saying is that coyotes have a more discerning taste than people. I tend to agree. My first taste of opossum did not have me hoping that local meat market would start stocking grinner carcases.

Snoe,

After attending FLCC for conservation, went to Utah State, worked around there, moved with wife to Michigan for govt. research on coyotes and tb,
then to Oregon, serving OR/WA/AK, then to NM for the weather conditions. Portland rainy winter was not something we enjoyed, though a beautiful state.

All my family are in upstate and all friends as well outside of those I've made along the way. Everyone lives either in Monroe or Wayne County.

My wife attended ESF and spent lots of time in the ADK's as well. Beautiful mountains. Funny when you move to UT or out west anywhere if folks haven't been in NY they don't realize the type of country there, used to relish telling them while Yellowstone is amazing for wildlife you could fit it inside just the Adirondacks!

Now back to your regularly scheduled program, good discussion on the quail issue Paul.

Justin

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