For us Northern boys.

I always wait until Spring to do bat exclusions but was asked today:

Why wait? If the bats are hibernating or gone for the winter putting tubes up now wouldn't matter as long as they didn't come down until after Spring.

So what are some pros and cons of putting tubes up now and just leaving them til spring?

Up until about 10 years ago I did a lot of winter exclusion work, including one-ways which would be left in place until late spring. However, having witnessed bats actively flying during warm-ups in January and February, I now only do all the preliminary sealing, leaving the access points open (no excluders) until spring when they are fully active. Evicting them during mid-winter may cause die-offs if they can't get back into their hibernation site. Talking with a bat biologist about this and we were both on the same page.

I have the same concerns as Ron but being much further south if I have a warm spell of several days the valves get installed.
The other issue that concerns me is the sealants used. Many do not set up properly outside of proper operating temps so if in doubt I don't.

David that has always been my reasoning. Sealants don't work great in 20 degree weather.

Ron that is a great point and one I never considered.

Like I said I don't start exclusions until April 1st which is probably later than it needs to be but I use hard dates.

April 1st to May 15th and then August 16th to October 15th.

Lady called me and was looking for an exclusion to be done soon so she could sell the house but I had to turn her away.

I just quoted a job at elementary school today. They want the work done asap. Its a colony of Free-tails that are getting in under the flashing of the flat roof. Estimated 500 plus. The droppings are falling on the drop tile ceiling in a class room. These are part of a colony that I removed from a hospital last winter less than a1/2 mile away...no doubt.. I did that exclusion and it was a low of 30 degrees that week and the bats were still active. It was a hospital and it also had to be done asap.
$$$$$$$$$$

We have a few nice days here next week... in the 60s.

Never claim a bat colony to be one of "your" former exclusions, at least not in front of a customer. I did that once and didn't like the reaction. It suddenly became my fault that the bats from three houses down moved in.

Sometimes people get a little bit too caught up in the whole protecting the bats thing, and they forget that it is the customer they are there to protect. If the animals get to survive too, then thats a bonus, because we will see that colony again someday down the block.
Maybe it's for the publicity, or the fact that most of us were raised not to kill an animal unless we are going to make use of it. If it were an issue that could impact the population of bats in the area, believe me, we wouldn't be allowed to work in the winter.
So before we all go buying tickets to get a ride with the Sea Shepard, lets remember that it is our own species we are working for, not an animals.

I prefer to work for the animals. Our own species are hopeless.

Let me know when one of them writes you a check Nate. LOL! I dont do allot of bat work in the winter because I am spoiled, and don't like the snow, but I do keep a list, and when I get bored I work my way through it. I think Ive rested enough after a hard summer, and with spring right arround the corner I may as well go get my travel trailer ready, because I think im going to be using it allot this year. Most people use there travel trailers a couple weeks a year. I probobly use mine for a total of 15 weeks a year. Best 1300 bucks I ever spent on living quarters!

Mike, the post about protecting our own species was spot on. ( Okay Nate, I realize that some of us ain't worth protecting, but I haven't met a bat with money yet ) As Liberal and Conservative as Wisconsin is, we always protect each other so that we have somebody to scream at.

OK.....you guys got me.

I only spare the smart bats and raccoons that agree to keep going to houses with good insurance.

(This of course was a joke)

Ron, how can you tell where the entries are in the winter (mostly I can tell by droppings, but I know the other signs)?

If you are doing the whole house you will find them. the dropping are still there along with the smudge marks. I do bat work all winter. if the temps goes up in the day time above 45 the bats will fly a little. if it is cold below the 40 day time, then the excludders stay up till we get a few days of above 45.
every one thinks that bats live in one home. I believe that is true for females that have young but as soon as the young are flying I think the bats move around. for example you have a home that like clock work 70 bats fly out of from June to august. then all of a sudden there is 100 bats flying out well we all know that the young are now flying. then go back and count at the end of August and the numbers are different each night. or you have the customer say the bats are gone. one researcher I heard feed back from said that bats in homes have different den sites. it only stands to reason that they will go to where the food is. so in a nut shell that bat will go to another den site. and to prove it if they did not have other dens then every home we exclude in the summer those bats would be all over every hose we do on the outside not just a couple and the only time I see that is after the young are flying and do not know where to go yet.

I yes Mike I agree and you have heard a few of my rants on a few pod casts on people vs animals and in that order LOL

I notice them rotating roost sites all the time.

Look at your state regulations and see if there are any dates when you cannot exclude. Every state is different.

Due to disease and conservation issues with bats, I first recommend that everyone start referring to bat proofing or bat exclusion as the act of installing the exclusion devices instead of the process of sealing structures and removing bats. The reason for doing so is that it allows work to be done on the structure anytime of year (unless expressly prohibited by state law) as Ron Scheller has described.

Next, it is important to understand the products being used and their properties. When dealing with sealants, a silicon based product may not adhere properly to the structure in winter unless heat has been applied to the area first to ensure no moisture is present. Since silicon cures by exposure to water, any water present will begin the curing process causing the material to cure and pull away leaving potential openings. Chemical cure products may have a similar issue as the moisture may prevent them from adhering to the structure even though they cure in a completely different manner. You also need to understand what products require dry tooling, wet tooling, no tooling and/or bond breakers for lasting work. Ambient and surface temperature play critical roles with all sealants and caulks. As a general rule, the Sealant, Waterproofing, and Restoration Institute (who actually test these products and rate them) recommends that sealants on structures not be applied when the ambient temperature is below 40 degrees F or the surface temperature is above 140 degrees F. Additionally, most products require 28 days to be fully cured (which happens as an outside to inside process) so application issues may not be apparent right away.

In terms of biology, it is normal for bats to move locations inside of hibernacula, move between hibernacula, or even feed during warm-ups in winter. When dealing with maternity or nursery colony’s, they are very specific to certain micro climates and will move from one to another if their current location does not meet their needs. A basic guideline that can be followed in winter is anytime temperatures are above 40 degrees F, there can be bat activity. So if you have exclusion devices on a structure with a known hibernacula, those bats most likely won't make it. As an industry, we need to do our best to ensure the minimum amount of bat fatalities as possible regardless of personal feelings. Over the last several years there has been more movements within regulatory departments to place limitations on bat work due to declining bat populations and if our industry isn't careful it is very possible to have bat work removed from wildlife control activities. Don’t focus on bats getting listed on the Federal Endangered Species List. Rather, focus on what will happen if every state decides to list their bat species as threatened or endangered. If this would happen, we could expect most bat work to be shut down overnight.

What is going to happen if NY finally lists the little brown bat on it’s endangered species list? When PA was first hit hard with white-nose, they considered requiring a bat biologist to inspect any structure with a bat colony and approve exclusion work before it could be started. Luckily, this didn’t happen but it is a concern that it was even thought about. Ohio recommended this year that no exclusions could be performed between Nov 1 and Aug 1 but again luckily this was rejected by our division of wildlife as unrealistic. Currently, there is a $31 million dolor road project on hold for 4 - 5 months in IA due to a single Indiana bat being found in a bridge this month. Imagine how much tax dollars are being wasted for the company’s equipment to just sit there waiting for a bat survey to begin in May. So to think this won't happen is incorrect.

While I agree that protecting people from wildlife conflicts is our mission, I also think it is hard to justify to regulatory officials why bats need to be removed when whey are not in physical contact with occupants of a structure. The current science says that as long as their is no contact, there is no problem. Again, I personally don't agree with that finding but it is very difficult to get those with that belief to understand otherwise.

For the sake of the industry my recommendation is to adopt an policy that there is no problem with performing repairs to buildings in winter unless a bat hibernacula is known to reside in the structure. So if no bats are found during an inspection, there is no issue sealing the structure and no need for exclusion devices provided there is confidence that no bats are present. However, if bats are or may be present, than work should be limited to repairs on areas that bats have not been actively using with bat proofing performed only after the colony has become active in the Mar/Apr timeframe. If it is not possible to determine these areas then work should be postponed until a bat watch can be conducted to determine activity points (based on species and the number of bats using the structure guano or rub marks may not be present making identification more difficult).

By taking this approach it not only helps the industry, but it also takes advantage of the bat's biology. If bats are in hibernation, they can't use installed exclusion devices anyway so there is no need for them but the job can be sold and payment for other work performed can be received. It also means that work can be performed throughout the year with structures that show zero bat activity, feed roosts, or bachelor colony's.

Good post Would make a good article in WCT magizine.

Geeze Jim, give me some time will you, LOL.

Wasn't going to post on this as I think it went from a simple answer about why you might not do bat exclusions during the winter
to us versus them (people versus wildlife).

This isn't an animal rights discussion, but it is a discussion about a time of year that is second (possibly) only to maternity season
for bats.

Eric put down a ton of great information so I'm not going to say much, other than while we as excluders may think that we are the
best possibility for bats to be excluded humanely and at the same time protect the homeowner and educate them about bats.

We quickly remove the idea that we are conservationists in our work and ethics when we simply state, I do it because I can.

Whenever someone says laws or regulations may be passed, folks on this forum and others or in general conversation always say,
"good luck with that, people will be killing bats themselves then or trying haphazardly to exclude them with terrible results that
will lead to far more detriment to bat populations."

True?

Likely.

But.... Put right in your mind that this topic of making winter exclusion is on the charts and is rising as the spread of this disease
spreads. Even without imperiling bats as WNS has, it has made people more aware of possible threats to bat species nationwide.

The simple fact now is that more people know more than they did before and these folks are talking about what you and I do.

You can say they don't have a right, you can say you'll be exempt because of your state or powers that be or even association with
some higher power.

But please realize this is completely on the table and is not some scare tactic I'm throwing out there.

I know we are in business to make money and we do that resolving wildlife conflicts. While some folks are in states that may have
winter movement between houses or between roosts, there isn't anything to eat in most northern states (insects are not moving) so
sealing off a roost completely in winter or providing a one way that the bats will leave through and not be able to re-enter is akin
to killing them.

We as an industry have no credibility for what happens to those bats, you can fall back on the idea that no one else knows either, but
we can easily infer that blocking them out of a structure they were hibernating in during winter conditions (even during a "warm spell")
is going to force them to find a new spot or die.

So I'm going to ask this, why aren't the folks who want to do winter work, doing interior seal up work to make the homeowner rest easy
that the bats can't get in with occupants and once spring weather arrives and bats become truly active and resume activity, they will be
excluded by you.

Safe for your CLIENT, safe for the BATS!

Everybody wins and we aren't providing water cooler talk for the many many many govt. folks that know and read this forum and others
who are thinking, geez maybe we do need to stop these folks, some of them seem like they simply don't want to make sure they don't
impact the resource negatively.

I have some of the same bat species you folks do that will overwinter, I also have others that you don't have in the midwest and up north
that will overwinter.

We also all know (those who have done 3 or more bat jobs even) that bats use such a wide variety of roost types that unless bats are in
an open attic situation where you can lay your eyeballs on them, or under insulation, etc... that if they are down in the wall void or behind
brick fascia, etc.... you will not know they are still there unless they move/make noise etc.... so you have to assume if you start after
hibernation season begins that you might have bats in the structure.

Everyone is going to do what they are going to do until they can't do it, but please take in what I said and realize folks are already thinking
this way, and as Eric correctly states, you don't need the feds to use the ESA in this case, just listing the bats as state threatened or endangered
is enough and is easy to accomplish and then $0.00 or many many hoops with your friendly neighborhood biologist riding along or having
to sign on the line for each and every exclusion.

All I'm saying is think through why it NEEDS to be done, versus what CAN be done and what SHOULD be done.

More than I meant to say but that is typical.

Have a great day, going out to enjoy the 70 degree weather we are hitting.........

Justin, thank you for your clear, logical and science-based info. I agree; knowing that this is a public forum, those of us who pride themselves on being bat-whackers ("because I can, humans more important than animals", etc.), will get our industry in the crosshairs of any government agency that is tasked with protecting bats.
Do bat work with bat conservation in mind - and pride yourself for doing so - or expect to be shut down if and when WNS becomes nationwide. Don't prod the sleeping giant.
Has WNS been found in any structure-dwellers?