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Should I be packing? #4075056
10/25/13 09:33 PM
10/25/13 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,674
Georgia
warrior Offline OP
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warrior  Offline OP
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Georgia
http://www.11alive.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=2767082545001

I've done work in this subdivision and I'm sure this could have been any of us. In all the years of doing this I've only had a few run ins with viscious dogs. One mutt nipped me when I got to close to it, it was on a chain, but a swift kick changed his attitude. One pit mix made a run for me every time I entered a yard but he backed down to my bluff and only once did the bluff fail and I had to make a run for the truck when a pit came in flying low.
I usually don't pack prefering to avoid the whole jurisdictional mess and do almost all my dispatching at the house.


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Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4075519
10/26/13 03:12 AM
10/26/13 03:12 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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ADCofWMt Offline
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Western Montana
We had something similar happen here this summer. But only the dog got hurt. Was one of those little handless mop dogs. I have considered carrying one of those telescoping asps. Small, fits on the belt. Can be useful in other ways. How often do you need a broom handle or something just to reach? A few weeks ago I had a landlord showing me some squirrel damage on a rental. We came around a corner and came nose to nose with a large dog, not in the best mood. He didn't know about it. The tenants got a heck of a butt chewing over that. Think WCS sells something on that same order under a different name as well.


Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4075685
10/26/13 08:38 AM
10/26/13 08:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
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sgs Offline
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NH
Frankly, I think we all should have protection from dogs, on our person, at all times. For some it will be a firearm, for others pepper spray or something else.

It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4076265
10/26/13 04:08 PM
10/26/13 04:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
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Paul Winkelmann Offline
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I would rather have the dog killed by the proper authorities than by me. ( I must be getting old. I can't believe I just said that )

For those of you that don't know, my son was bitten by one of two pit bulls. Our local police, with help from a couple of neighboring departments, hunted them down in a large field and killed them both. I was really proud of our cops!

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4076716
10/26/13 08:45 PM
10/26/13 08:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
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sgs Offline
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NH
Quote:
For those of you that don't know, my son was bitten by one of two pit bulls. Our local police, with help from a couple of neighboring departments, hunted them down in a large field and killed them both.


Paul, would it not have been better if your son had defended himself effectively and not been bitten?

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4076960
10/26/13 10:39 PM
10/26/13 10:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
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Paul Winkelmann Offline
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sqs, you're absolutely right but this was a sneak attack. ( He never saw it coming ) He got bit in the leg and knowing him he would probably have shot himself in the same leg.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4077860
10/27/13 02:30 PM
10/27/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
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sgs Offline
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NH
lol...you have a point there. It's hard to protect yourself if you don't know how. smile

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4080571
10/28/13 07:59 PM
10/28/13 07:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 32
Virginia
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Virginia
You'd better be really good at drawing your pistol and able to make split second, life changing decisions. Customer's daughter opened the front door as I was walking up the sidewalk. Trained guard dog bolted from her side and bit me 3 times before she could get him under control. I had what I suspect was about 1/2 second to make the decision, draw, aim accurately and fire. No chance I could have done that without risking a ricochet into the girl. Besides, a trained guard dog, unless shot thru the skull, is probably going to ignore the pain and do what it was trained to do; subdue the threat, that being the guy with the gun. I would have ended up in worse shape than if I'd just done what I did which was cross my arms and turn sideways. Kept it from getting a hold of my hands/arms, and the family jewels.
On the other hand, if you're in a 'hood with known rogue pitbull activity, a can of bear spray in hand and ready to fire, or a change in service areas might serve you well.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4081011
10/28/13 10:08 PM
10/28/13 10:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,674
Georgia
warrior Offline OP
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Georgia
USN, you absolutely correct training is everything. As a vet I understand train as you fight and fight as you train. At one time in my life I was rather proficient with JMB's masterpiece 1911 and actively trained in antisocial interpersonal interactions but that was a whole nother life ago and just one of many reasons I choose not to carry today. NOTE, I did not say go out and about unarmed.
In light of the event I am going to increase my range of tools available to include OC.


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Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4081069
10/28/13 10:22 PM
10/28/13 10:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
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Paul Winkelmann Offline
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mequon, wisconsin
Kevin, I was in an area like you described several years ago. I came walking around the corner of the house and this huge Rottweiler came charging at me. The owner was right next to me and said, "Don't worry, he useless." At which point the dog jumped up and stuck out the largest tongue I have ever seen and washed my entire face with one lick.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4081590
10/29/13 07:52 AM
10/29/13 07:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
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sgs Offline
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NH
As one who has both been bitten and successfully stopped an attack, I can honestly say I prefer the second option.

A couple of years ago, while in the woods opening up a beaver dam, I was confronted by a pit and a doberman. They were owned by a college aged kid who was home for Thanksgiving. The guys father told me it was a good thing I stopped the pit. He also said he doubted that bear spray would have done the job.

The percentage of folks who are mauled by dogs is blessedly low but it happens often enough that having a means of defense is well worth considering.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4082133
10/29/13 02:05 PM
10/29/13 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
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NM
I was raised in a family business that involved a large boarding facility for roughly 100 dogs and we boarded cats
and others as well.

I was never bitten in 25 years of working in and around that facility even with aggressive dogs, however, I'll impart
a humorous story that at the time wasn't so much.

Just after high school I spent a summer living with a relative in the city and delivered pizza for the hut. Saw plenty of dogs
I was concerned with and one such went like this.

Lady comes out with dog (large german shepherd. She says, he's fine he's a big baby. I shrug it off and proceed to hold out the
pizza pouch and remove the pizza (obscuring my view of the dog).

I suddenly felt a tugging on the crotch of my pants (no lie!). The dog had carefully nipped onto the seam in my jeans and was
just pulling on it like a chew toy.

Needless to say a few moments of sweat before she realized what was happening and told him to get in the house. A little blushing
and a healthy tip I was down the road...

**

Only dogs that ever bit me were family dogs, one was a cousins dog, scotty with miserable disposition (finger nip). The other was my last dog a McNab, and it was only due to pain in her hips just prior to her end of life and due to me not being careful enough lifting her.

**

I do worry about dogs on the job, though many may be all bark a dog can truly put a hurt on you in a hurry. I don't now but have considered carrying a small canister of "halt" or something like that available for dog repellent.

There have been hundreds of bit cases many of which have gone to court just in Albuquerque alone in the last year, nationwide dog bite cases are insanely high compared to wildlife and other issues people worry over.

Too bad, love dogs but people who own dogs are why dog bites happen, poor training, poor control and abuse and so forth cause many of these bad K9 issues.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4082440
10/29/13 04:40 PM
10/29/13 04:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
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Paul Winkelmann Offline
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Here's a question for you guys. My dad was a cattle dealer and this meant stopping at nearly every farm in Wisconsin. My dad dealt with the worst dogs in the state and if he got bit, it was very rare. He had a way with animals ( but I once saw a bull toss him pretty good ) but he was extremely good with dogs.

This was passed down to me, I guess, because my dog bites are practically non-existent too.

Apparently, this trait missed my son, however. It's like he's got Purina tattooed on his butt. ( one chained dog actually de-pantsed him. ) He claimed he was once attacked by the statue of a dog but that might have been stretching it.

My question is this; are there people like me and my old man that actually can handle canines better than most, or am I just dreaming?

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4082806
10/29/13 07:48 PM
10/29/13 07:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 386
Ontario
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Kermit Offline
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Ontario
Dogs smell fear, and take advantage of it.And then there are dogs that do not look for fear, just a chew toy with its back turned

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4083039
10/29/13 09:05 PM
10/29/13 09:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 604
New York
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New York
I knew a landlord "slumlord" that liked to carry a cordless nail gun for such encounters.

Re: Should I be packing? [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4083729
10/30/13 07:56 AM
10/30/13 07:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 129
Dudley NC
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Muddawg Offline
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Dudley NC
Originally Posted By: Paul Winkelmann
My question is this; are there people like me and my old man that actually can handle canines better than most, or am I just dreaming?


Most definitely.

Once you understand dogs, they tend to give little problem.

I do plumbing repair as well as ADC work and rarely ever have a problem with dogs. I've even had owners warn me about the bad dog that I was petting at the time. Even with the worst dogs, a pipe wench up side the head tends to change their minds.

Over the years, I've lost my fear of dogs. Or maybe my fear just turns to anger when I'm threatened. Anytime a bad dog comes at me my first response is always to stand my ground and dare it to come to me. I get the attitude of "How dare this fuzzy flea bag threaten ME!"

Normally, I can tell if the dog really wants to do me harm or if it's just skittish and barking a warning for me to stay away. In those cases I try my best to sweet talk it into petting range. Once I get a hand behind it's ear, I've made another friend and no more worries.

I treat dogs much like wild animals that I run across in the woods. 1) Show no fear! They play on that. 2) Stand your ground! Run and they will give chase. 3) If need be, rush the dog! This blows their minds and scares the beJesus out of them.

I think, however, that my biggest advantage is that I'm just big and ugly enough that they really don't want to mess with me to begin with.


Muddawg
Re: Should I be packing? [Re: Muddawg] #4083759
10/30/13 08:13 AM
10/30/13 08:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 129
Dudley NC
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Dudley NC
Funny story,

I had a friend who owned a Rottweiler. Big mean ugly dog with a bad attitude.

Well, he and his wife took a vacation up to New York where her folks were from. He left me to feed the dog. They left me with a big stainless steel dish pan to carry the food in.

The first day or two, I went over there and of course I had to go inside the fence to clean the water bowl and retrieve the food dish. The dog would bark and growl at me snarl and show me his teeth. I ignored him. Evidently, he got mad about being ignored so the third day, as I stepped through the fence he nailed me on the leg. I imprinted the side of his head in the bottom of that steel dish pan! "WHANG!!" When he finally broke free from me he nearly knock the dog house over running to it!

The rest of the week, I could not get him to come out of that dog house for NOTHIN'! I would step inside the pen and he would run to it and plaster himself as flat against the back wall as he could. I even once grabbed his collar and tried to drag him out but those front paws locked against the front wall and he wasn't budging.

After my buddy got back, he called me up on the phone and asked, "Man, what did you do to my dog? He just don't even act the same anymore!"

I told him, "We just had a little conversation about his attitude. That's all."

Ever since then, all I would have to do is just drive up in the yard and that dog would hit the dog house and not be seen the whole time I was there. grin


Muddawg
Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4085614
10/31/13 12:58 AM
10/31/13 12:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30
St. Louis area
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Dave Schmidt Offline
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St. Louis area
Great, Muddawg. Your ignorance of dog behaviour/communication broke the spirit of somebody's pet. You must be so proud of yourself.
As Wink so hilariously put it, no defensive technique or weapon works as well as understanding animals. The great majority of pet dogs communicate very, very clearly and in an uninhibited manner. This is probably due to being in close contact with the most clueless, unintuitive creature on earth - Man.
Many's the time customers have told me to watch out for their dog - "he bites." In about five seconds the dog and I are best buddies. Except in rare cases, dogs bite only as a last resort - it's the dog equivalent of slapping somebody or grabbing his arm when he won't pay attention to something urgent you're telling him. Stupid humans just won't pay attention! Here- this'll get his attention (chomp)!
An actual attack, as what happened to Kevin, is a different situation.


ALL OUT Wildlife Control
Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4085630
10/31/13 01:23 AM
10/31/13 01:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,674
Georgia
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Georgia
Guys, I'm not talking about the ill behaved ankle biters or the idiots that won't shut up not even the fearful ones that won't let you if the back yard. I'm legitimately concerned with the lethal aberrations that come at you like a tomahawk missile on afterburner. Maybe you don't have it where you live but my market is Micheal Vick's old playground and he didn't operate it a vacuum. At least once a month somewhere in the metro someone is getting sent to the hospital or worse by these animals.
It's not just it the "ethnic" neighborhoods either, pretty much all of Atlanta is ethnic to some degree. Like I said I have done lots of work in the neighborhood the linked attack occurred and it is well above average.
For what it's worth I picked up a can of OC today.


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Re: Should I be packing? [Re: warrior] #4085639
10/31/13 01:34 AM
10/31/13 01:34 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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Western Montana
Watched my dad coat two dogs with OC-10 years ago. They were killing some of our livestock. They went running directly into the owners house after that. When they ran in the house he came out in a hurry. And found my dad at the fence with a .357 and an empty can of spray. He was told the spray was the first and only warning. Oddly he built a kennel for the dogs that afternoon.


Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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