Dave K were not talking about any money that NWCOA set aside for chapters its money that independant chapters sent to NWCOA for safe keeping aqnd when the chapter program was scrapped which it should be those monies are what they should have returned. Not the 20 dollars per member set aside from your national dues for the chapter. I can see the argument that that money was reappropriated but not the treasuries of the state associations given up to NWCOA for safekeeping.
Maybe it would be easier if you would send Winkelmann and me 1000 dollars each to hold for you and we will give it back to you when we decide your going to spend it well. Until then we keep it. Maybe we should try to get the Iranians to send us their bombs until they need them then not let them have them back it would solve a lot of problems.
We NWCOA took state associatians money then got a lawyer to say it was illegal to give them back their money. That can't be right but I am not trying to start a big argument about this I am just trying to communicate with the new board to ask their lawyer how they can legally give people back their money. Doing the right thing will benefit NWCOA greatly.
Anyone who reads this I will tell you the same thing I told state associations send your money to me and I will take care of it. Only don't send it to NWCOA send it to Paul brooker, 1629 louisville road, frankfort, ky, 40601. If you want it back and I don't think your going to waste it or talk bad about me I'll send it back if I have any of it left.
If you don't like that go to church and pray for me you'll feel better.

Dave, how can any membership benefits for current members be destroyed? Since you seem to be the only person taking part in what Brooker, Bethell, I, and others had hoped to be a healthy discussion, I plainly do not understand you. You have no interest in running for any NWCOA office, you certainly haven't been a member long enough to understand just about anything, and yet you have an answer for everything except solving problems of the past and perhaps even a 10% to 30% increase in NWCOA memberships.

I find this whole series of posts nothing more than amazing. I am arguing with a guy that doesn't have a clue what is going on, has no interest in NWCOA or its seminars, and I truly can't find any reason at all for your not wanting to move ahead. I will gladly talk to any member of the NWCOA board on how they can improve relations and actually gain membership, money,and clout. But these inane discussions are over!

Paul...you answered your first question towards the end of your first paragraph....then explained it a little more in the second sentance in the second paragraph. It really sucks that I have no interest. Yet, I continue to pay my dues in hopes that the old men will grow up. Why? Because your old penpal says it is the right thing to do...to keep the organization going.

OK let s see this thread was started to ask why there were even elections for positions that were unopposed. (Because NWCOA has to by bylaws.) But just for a second think of the howls of outrage that would of been posted if we would not of held elections!!!Talk about a crap storm. So to me the start of this thread and some of the comments just shows that even though this board is following the rules some still find a way to find fault and give a ration of crapola.

Now take a look at this thread (how long it has gone on, number of posts) which is anti board/NWCOA and is on its way to being another epic bash NWCOA thread here on Tman. Compare this thread to the post I started on NWCOA being at the WCT event. A nice positive post that has how many replies? Who posted to it? How far down the page is it now? And what speaks volumes is who didn't post to that thread.

Paul B in your post you talk about NWCOA searching for another lawyer to give an opinion that you agree with. This board did not shop around for a lawyer to give us an opinion on this issue (He was picked by a past NWCOA board member)and we follow that opinion based on his expertise in non-profit law. That you (as a past board member)would suggest that we shop around for a lawyer to give an opinion...gives me real pause. Don't like what your lawyer has to say so you just shop around to you find one who agrees with you?

Dave K has it right. Don't like direction of NWCOA join, become active, come to meetings, join a committee (where the real work is) or stay on these forums bashing NWCOA. I don't see the point unless it is to affect NWCOA's ability to get new members. No board members spend much time here, they are not reading this and I am not taking it to them.

And I agree with Paul W as most are non members these are inane discussions... if you want a voice join.

Once again I regret deleting my original post, it was positively positive. Sorry you missed it Chuck, my intent was not for it to take the tack that it did.

This comment brought to you by the new kinder gentler Dave.

Thanks for responding Charles. If you could persuade any other board members to post on here, I would do my best to keep everything civil. This site still seems to me to be one of the best ways for you to get new members without spending a nickel.

If you are wondering why the sudden change in disposition, it's really quite simple. I have personally never lost so much as a nickel to NWCOA. As a matter of fact, I'm sure I owe a percentage of our success to NWCOA seminars. My big problem was the bashing of people that I had come to know and respect. Since this has all but stopped ( My guess is because of interment and perhaps incarceration ) I have no reason not to trust the new board.

P.S. At my age, Alzheimer's may have also played a part.

Thanks Dave. I did miss the start of this thread and it is good to know it did not start out as a bashing. Bravo to the kinder nicer Dave.

Paul W.

Sorta went both ways though huh? Many who I also consider friends were ran down as well. Much was reactionary very few (if any) threads started by board members bashing anyone or anything. Lets call it water under the bridge. Very difficult discussing NWCOA on an open site especially internal subjects that pertain to members only. I agree this site would be a great way to reach potential new members but look back on just this thread and it gets a little rough for NWCOA and all we did was follow the by-laws. Like I said before if NWCOA said we were going to give away Tomahawk traps there would be some who were mad about them not being the pro models.

I took no offense but I was sorta shocked to see my name, Al-Qaeda and support in the same paragraph when the FBI knocks on my door I will send them to see you.:)

Plenty of committees that need members to work within ranging from Wildlife services (how to fight competition) to training and so many more. Would really like to have you, your son and every other operator to be a member and active in the assocation. If you get a chance stop down to NOLA and the EXPO I am sure you will find it (while different in some ways/same in others) a good event. Sorry I missed you in Lexington and I asked Al about you (I though you two were joined at the hip).

Take care Paul.

The FBI was here already. ( I figured you sent them ) They wanted to know if any of us ADC guys were terrorists. I told them it depended on which of our customers they asked.

Al dodged a bullet. If I'd have been there we would have shared a room and then he'd be on all the same crazy medication that I've been on. ( See my post on Doctor's business strategy )

P.S. If you ever decide to give away Tomahawk traps, let me know. I think I can get you upgraded to the Pro Model so you won't be criticized.

My ballot went in the mail today. I wonder who's going to win??

I am gonna call the election early unofficially lol

Congratulations Jason Reger President Elect. my good friends Charles Holt, Charles Parker, Jordan Budenski and the other men and women who ran un-opposed this year. (I don't have a list to quote everyones name sorry.)

I wish each you much success with the NWCOA offices you begin to serve.

Mr Reger

I have one real request of you and NWCOA.

Tear down those walls that divide us from the past !!

Bring an end to the division that has done nothing more then implode this industry !!

I have read some positive things in this thread about NWCOA and WCT working closer together.

I hope this is just the beginning of greater things to come.

I hope that all of NWCOA's future ballots run opposed and everyone in this industry support this board and future boards.

I concur with Robb I never was bashing NWCOA I was speaking to them and making suggestions for their an the industries future. The industry needs NWCOA and NWCOA needs the industry. There is strength in numbers a backbone is useless if you have no muscles, all politics are local and a national association needs a local presence. I'm going to listen for a while.

Paul B.

The place to listen and help would be on .info or at the membership meeting. And lets be blunt many who have been involved in these threads are not supporting NWCOA, WCT or anything else.

I agree a state presence is needed. But as you know from your term as GO there was little to no compliance from chapters. And being chapters, compliance was necessary due to tax status. I am sure you asked for such compliance as did I and looking at minutes/paper work we got from past board you had just as much luck getting that compliance as I did. That lack of compliance and the jeopardy it placed NWCOA's tax status in was what resulted in the chapter program being switched to a affiliate program. That switch was not a snap, take a look at the by-laws at www.nwcoa.com those represent hours and hours of work by members on committees bringing policy to board for review and suggestions and/or changes then back to committee and then, when it looks good, off to lawyer to make sure it is compliant with non-profit law.

In a nut shell the difference between chapters and affiliates is the freedom from oversight. Sure support of NWCOA's mission statement, code of ethics and supporting NWCOA in both word and deed is needed from an affiliate. That support is for the association not for board members whoever they are. A lot of the flack NWCOA has taken is not due to policy but who implemented that policy. Sure there were some policy decisions that some would not be proponents of no matter who proposed them but there were also some who applauded those changes no matter who put them forward.

Then it comes to membership. To me no matter how long one WAS a member, how vocal a non-member is, their voice carries no weight when I have to vote on an issue. I have to listen to members and base my vote on the input of a majority of membership no matter my personal feelings. Not trying to be a donkey but listening to non-members concerning policy to me seems to be a form of subsidizing. If your not vested in the association how can one's voice have weight compared to a paying member?

A long time member asked me to ask you if you remembered NWCOA's welcome at it's inception? How was NWCOA received when it was brought to forums and to some who worked in the industry and how the policies and code of ethics of NWCOA was thoroughly trashed by some. This member also assured me that we were not the first board to be called elitists or questioned by those who thought the status quo was the way to go. You all had the cajones to stand up to that and build a trade association and I applaud you all for it. And while not asking for applause for this board or future boards I hope they have the cajones to continue to push the envelope just as you all did. Change is often painful (and Dave S hates it:) )and a trade association has to evolve or become irrelevant/stagnant just as our businesses would become without new products, techniques or methods.

Many on this forum have no interest in these issues. So I would like to invite you, Paul W, Tim any anyone else to join and either discuss this on .info or even better come to New Orleans and attend the membership meeting and discuss these issues face to face. I hoped you, Paul W or others would of wanted some discussion in Lexington and I did have some but the only way I see this division to end is for those with issues to become ACTIVE members, put aside who is in office or who is proposing changes. Look at changes from the inside, add your insight and work together to elevate our trade association.

Charles, one of the most intelligent quotes that you've said is about face to face conversations. It is almost amazing how a customer that you've never met, and is mad as heck, can have an entirely different disposition when met face to face. I guess that this is one of the reasons that I am pleased with the new board. I've met you all face to face. ( Even if Parker doesn't remember )

Everyone of you has a very successful business and the only reason that you ran, I guess, is because you felt that you could help. You remind me a lot of the first board. They needed this job like I needed another hole in my head. I wouldn't mind coming to New Orleans at all but I don't see that happening this year. ( But you never know ) I would actually love to be one of the guys that helped tear down the walls.

Paul,

Hope you can make it!

And not one to ever miss a chance to promote NWCOA and gain members (with the side benefit of helping you become one of the guys who helped tear down the walls). How about you and PJ join up and as part of my G.O. duties let me encourage one of you to become a representative or co/rep for your state (Not a huge work load or time suck until I hit you up to help with the affiliate program but we are working on a process to stream line that and avoid the majority of time suck from volunteers). Numbers are great but (I believe) an engaged membership is key to a successful trade group or association. That's what NWCOA needs..members that are passionate about the industry and even more specifically a passion for certain aspects of the industry and for those members to become active in committees that represent those interests/passions. You get enough members like that success will follow and with success will come more members who want to be a part of those successes or reap the benefits of membership.

Charles I concur with what NWCOA did with the chapter issue except for one small issue that needs to be corrected.
I think I was friendly with you and Vicki at the WCT but I didn't think it was a time to discuss issues. I was having to good of a time and I hope u all were too.

Paul,

You were most definitely very friendly (as always), Eric was gracious and welcoming (and I expected nothing less). And both myself and Vikki had a very good time. I am glad the board directed us to attend, I know you guys don't have horns and it was good for those on the outside to see that we are hornless as well. Looking at the discussions on forums I am sure some expected a donnybrook but what can't be seen on those discussions is that we have all broken bread, shared a laugh or maybe even had a wee nip together

There is much more that connects us than separates us. Every member of NWCOA boards past and present has wanted to elevate our industry and protect it from outside groups such as PETA, HSUS and unjust regulations from those who don't understand/devalue our industry. Methods to reach those goals may be different but the goals are the same. The future boards of NWCOA will also have a different method from the current board and I see that as a positive, thing's change and NWCOA's way of dealing with those issues should evolve as well.

Hope you will think about coming to New Orleans you have much to offer and while terrifying the thought of doing the Bourbon Street stumble with both you and Christian boggles the mind.

Charles,
Thanks I'm thinking

I'm not. If you get two Pauls thinking at the same time it causes a lot of confusion in the universe because it's never been done before.

The date on this quote is 11/22, I received a surprise envelope in the mail yesterday 12/9, my ballot got returned. The kinder, gentler Dave is being tested. My ballot was returned because the wrong mailing address for the attorney was printed on the ballot. the ballot has a Canal St, New Orleans address on it but the retuned envelope says it should be Baronne St, N.O., the forwarding request was expired so it took the post office 17 days to get it back to me. So who's the D.A. that printed the wrong address? And no I won't post this on NWCOA's site, I've found that site very user unfriendly.