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Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: The Beav] #4376099
03/13/14 11:04 PM
03/13/14 11:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
Originally Posted By: The Beav
Great Idea.


I agree! Cheap and easy just like me. lol

~ADC~

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: Seldom] #4376104
03/13/14 11:06 PM
03/13/14 11:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
Seldom Offline
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Seldom  Offline
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Midland, MI.
I'd suggest not using galvanized pipe for the insert or grind off the galvanizing if you have to use it. Zinc from the galvanizing will not stay in-solution in the molten weld puddle and will precipitate to the center of the tack. This coupled with the spring steel could easily cause a cracking failure of the tack.

Last edited by Seldom; 03/13/14 11:08 PM.

"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!"
Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: Seldom] #4376114
03/13/14 11:11 PM
03/13/14 11:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7
Northeast Oregon
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GrantRichie Offline OP
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Northeast Oregon
Originally Posted By: Seldom
Originally Posted By: GrantRichie
I think that was a good explanation Seldom. You could go with a slightly smaller pipe also to get the new flex points slightly further back. I might see if I can find some 3/4" outside diameter pipe to try. I have 20-30 of the older cast jaw traps that I wouldn't mind doing this to. Might as well get it right before I do all of them.
1/2" pipe is 7/8" OD and 3/4" is 1-1/8"OD. Using a larger OD insert will certainly increase the strength of the springs by moving the bending apex even closer to the spring eyes(shortening the spring)


I just got out my calipers to measure the pipe I used. I pulled this pipe out of this building I am sitting in when I replaced the galvanized with PEX, so this galvanized pipe is from 1953. It measures 27/32". That is 1/32" less than 7/8". Is black pipe the same outside thickness?

Last edited by GrantRichie; 03/13/14 11:14 PM.
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: Seldom] #4376121
03/13/14 11:12 PM
03/13/14 11:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7
Northeast Oregon
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GrantRichie Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Seldom
I'd suggest not using galvanized pipe for the insert or grind off the galvanizing if you have to use it. Zinc from the galvanizing will not stay in-solution in the molten weld puddle and will precipitate to the center of the tack. This coupled with the spring steel could easily cause a cracking failure of the tack.


It sure is nice having someone who knows about metal contribute! I will pull apart one of my pipe clamps I use for wood working and use some black pipe then.

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: Seldom] #4376126
03/13/14 11:14 PM
03/13/14 11:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Originally Posted By: Seldom
Originally Posted By: GrantRichie
I think that was a good explanation Seldom. You could go with a slightly smaller pipe also to get the new flex points slightly further back. I might see if I can find some 3/4" outside diameter pipe to try. I have 20-30 of the older cast jaw traps that I wouldn't mind doing this to. Might as well get it right before I do all of them.
1/2" pipe is 7/8" OD and 3/4" is 1-1/8"OD. Using a larger OD insert will certainly increase the strength of the springs by moving the bending apex even closer to the spring eyes(shortening the spring)


Seldom, I think he was referring to using a pipe that has a true 3/4" OD. Although I am not sure what "trade size" that would be. 3/8" maybe?

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376132
03/13/14 11:16 PM
03/13/14 11:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
Seldom Offline
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Seldom  Offline
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Midland, MI.
1/2" nominal pipe size is always gong to be 7/8" OD regardless of time & place.

If all you've got is galvanized, use it but grind the galvanizing off before you weld and you'll have no problem.

Last edited by Seldom; 03/13/14 11:16 PM.

"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!"
Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: Mike in A-town] #4376142
03/13/14 11:23 PM
03/13/14 11:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
Seldom Offline
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Seldom  Offline
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Midland, MI.
Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town


Seldom, I think he was referring to using a pipe that has a true 3/4" OD. Although I am not sure what "trade size" that would be. 3/8" maybe?

Mike
Yes, I bet you're correct that it was 3/8" nominal pipe size at 3/4" OD.

Last edited by Seldom; 03/13/14 11:24 PM.

"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!"
Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376161
03/13/14 11:30 PM
03/13/14 11:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7
Northeast Oregon
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GrantRichie Offline OP
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Northeast Oregon
If you can't find the right size outside diameter pipe, you could also look for the correct size bushing or bolt (cut the head off) at a hardware store. Lots of options really to get the right size of something in there, I just had the old pipe in the vice when I was thinking about it.

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376162
03/13/14 11:30 PM
03/13/14 11:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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I've never handled much 3/8" pipe. So I have no idea what the OD is.

Anybody know off-hand?

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376182
03/13/14 11:38 PM
03/13/14 11:38 PM
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Posts: 7
Northeast Oregon
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GrantRichie Offline OP
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Northeast Oregon
I just looked it up: if you are using black pipe or galvanized pipe 1/2" inside diameter pipe is about 27/32" outside diameter, 3/8" inside diameter pipe is about 11/16" outside diameter. So nothing exactly 3/4". 11/16" might work well though. I might have to make a run to town and get a piece to try.

Last edited by GrantRichie; 03/13/14 11:39 PM.
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376185
03/13/14 11:41 PM
03/13/14 11:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
Seldom Offline
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Seldom  Offline
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Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
Nom. Size (in) O.D. Average I.D. Min. Wall Nom. Wt./Ft. Max. W.P. PSI**
1/8" 0.405 0.249 0.068 0.051 810
1/4" 0.540 0.344 0.088 0.086 780
3/8" 0.675 0.473 0.091 0.115 620
1/2" 0.840 0.602 0.109 0.170 600
3/4" 1.050 0.804 0.113 0.226 480
1" 1.315 1.029 0.133 0.333 450


"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!"
Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376214
03/14/14 12:01 AM
03/14/14 12:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,256
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
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Iowa
... I'm not sure but you all may be over complicating it. lol I'll bet you can get 10' of conduit in a size that will work just fine for like $2...

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: ~ADC~] #4376219
03/14/14 12:08 AM
03/14/14 12:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Originally Posted By: ~ADC~
... I'm not sure but you all may be over complicating it. lol I'll bet you can get 10' of conduit in a size that will work just fine for like $2...


I had considered that, but I think EMT would crush. And rigid is the same size as water pipe. Last time I bought a stick of 1/2" rigid it was $13 at Lowe's. LOL

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376221
03/14/14 12:09 AM
03/14/14 12:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 42
Northern Nevada
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spotted cat nv Offline
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Northern Nevada
Also wall thickness will dictate some of your size difference. ie. schedule 40 wall pipe versus schedule 80

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376230
03/14/14 12:14 AM
03/14/14 12:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Schedule 40 and 80 have the same OD. The ID on 80 is smaller. At least it is with conduit. You lose wire fill capacity on a given size with 80 compared to 40.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376265
03/14/14 12:39 AM
03/14/14 12:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 59
GA
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Traps1982 Offline
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GA
Wow!! Excellent, excellent thread!! I got a couple of Vics that I am
going to do this with.


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Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376328
03/14/14 02:58 AM
03/14/14 02:58 AM
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NW Oregon
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remrogers Offline
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NW Oregon
Electrical rigid conduit is called GRC = galvanized rigid conduit. Use of black pipe should just be easier to use, in the long run.

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376408
03/14/14 05:31 AM
03/14/14 05:31 AM
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pennsylvania-union county
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furgotten Offline
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Interesting !


Gone will be those whom have allowed themselves to be disillusioned beyond their primal instincts.
Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: GrantRichie] #4376449
03/14/14 06:49 AM
03/14/14 06:49 AM
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Northern Kentucky
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pipewelder Offline
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Northern Kentucky
Reading these posts...leads me to believe that some may be pipe fitters...because fitters know everything... just ask em! Great thread...very good idea Grant!

Re: Pipe strengthening longsprings . . . NEW method [Re: jwr] #4376503
03/14/14 07:47 AM
03/14/14 07:47 AM
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central arkansas
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the Blak Spot Offline
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Originally Posted By: jwr
Originally Posted By: the Blak Spot
Wow! I was told never to weld cast as it could cause large pits and flake off after it snaps a few times. I never did try it. I was using a 220 stick welder. Are those laminations done with wire welder on the cast jaws?
Great job! Looks excellent


Spot, I got a wire welder if you need it.


Thanks!


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