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Learning to do bats? #4990978
04/01/15 11:34 PM
04/01/15 11:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
California
T
Throw Back Offline OP
trapper
Throw Back  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jul 2012
California
Are exclusions and bat control something I could realistically learn by watching some DVDs and reading? Or would I need to apprentice.

Im looking to learn them for the extra money

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991009
04/02/15 12:10 AM
04/02/15 12:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
CT
R
RF Wildlife Offline
trapper
RF Wildlife  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2010
CT
Do you have a construction background? I was a carpenter prior, so DVD's, pod casts, reading every post here, and anything else I could get my hands on worked for me.

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991027
04/02/15 12:45 AM
04/02/15 12:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
California
T
Throw Back Offline OP
trapper
Throw Back  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jul 2012
California
I do not, hind sight being 20/20 I should have done construction tech in high school, but I did sports medicine instead, I though I was going to be a cage fighter, not a skunk wrassler.

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991029
04/02/15 12:50 AM
04/02/15 12:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Georgia
Seriously I would recommend getting hands on training under someone who knows his/her stuff. To many things can go wrong to be "practicing" on another person's home. I've offered and still offer to teach in exchange for labor. Maybe you can find a skilled operator in your area our close enough to make the drive.


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Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: warrior] #4991032
04/02/15 12:53 AM
04/02/15 12:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
California
T
Throw Back Offline OP
trapper
Throw Back  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jul 2012
California
Originally Posted By: warrior
Seriously I would recommend getting hands on training under someone who knows his/her stuff. To many things can go wrong to be "practicing" on another person's home. I've offered and still offer to teach in exchange for labor. Maybe you can find a skilled operator in your area our close enough to make the drive.


I am interested in finding someone, it may be a pretty good drive tho.

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991193
04/02/15 08:53 AM
04/02/15 08:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
OH
Eric Arnold Offline
trapper
Eric Arnold  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
OH
It depends on your learning method. There are times when you will learn more from watching a DVD or reading a book then you will by setting in a classroom or by spending time on a ladder. There will also be times when you'll learn more sitting in the classroom and spending time on a ladder than you will be watching a DVD or reading a book. As a company that is in the training business, my recommendation is to do all of the above whenever possible.

In terms of bats, there are currently several DVD's available and we hope to be releasing ours in the next year if possible.

Book wise, there are a lot of books on bats but almost zero books on how to do bat exclusions so you need to do a combination of bat biology/rehabilitation with construction books.

In terms of classes, NWCOA has their Bat Standards class which is a one day lecture style course.

WCT Group has a 5 day Bat Management Workshop which is a combination hands-on and lecture and this year we are doing a 3 day Bat Management Short Course which will be just classroom as we also offer a 2 day hands-on exclusion workshop.

Of course, you always have the option to go "apprentice" or "help" another which may or may not be beneficial as you are trusting that the individual knows what they are talking about.

Ultimately, what you want to do is pull from as many sources as possible and develop your own method/understanding for your work area. So, from a training perspective, we feel it is far more important for students to be able to take the information we present/teach and modify it to suit their needs versus saying there is only one way to do this.


Eric Arnold
Publishing Editor W.C.T. Magazine
Editor The Fur Taker Magazine
Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991365
04/02/15 11:16 AM
04/02/15 11:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
California
T
Throw Back Offline OP
trapper
Throw Back  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jul 2012
California
I looked Eric, but it looks like you guys are only doing a three day this year in Ohio. I couldnt find the 5 day.

Either way it looks like a good amount of traveling to do any kind of training.

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991407
04/02/15 12:01 PM
04/02/15 12:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
NM
H
HD_Wildlife Offline
trapper
HD_Wildlife  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Apr 2010
NM
To me the principal of bat exclusion is a simple concept in terms of knowing you are needing to vent the bats through one way equipment at the right time of year, while sealing the building properly during and after.

Where the rubber meets the road like anything in life the actual scenarios will vary a ton and having some hands on ahead of time will save you some of the costly mistakes that most will make including myself when I started.

Bats are only getting higher on the list of priorities for state and federal protection as WNS moves across the country. Every year I hear from other operators and from state and fed agency folks about some of the facts being used that show there are many that either don't care about the outcome or they simply never had any opportunity to learn to do it right

When you first startup many of us are looking at every dollar as though it should only be spent on equipment or essentials and often folks believe training isn't an essential.

I would advocate that anyone starting up think about the multiple values of trainings by Eric, by NWCOA, by your state associations or by your state agency.

Paying for a training can help you shorten your learning curve, canssave you from some heartburn with clients and the bats themselves that will cost you money.

I flew from NM to take Eric's course and have never regretted that decision.

Did I learn everything about bat exclusion so that every situation has been easy or went as planned?

No, and no training by anyone will do that.

I'm going to an acoustic workshop training next week in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) all in I'm over $2k with travel. Am I rich? Nope not even close but the training will allow me to bid on more survey contracts and other scientific research into bats that will benefit my company.

Could I have bought the equipment and learned on my own? Yup, and I'd not know a ton of things that will save me money and from looking like I'm not well educated on the use.

We all talk about a concept of paying for our education, meaning losing money or almost losing money on a job we took thinking x=y when really x=j.

Can you be successful without training? Of course you can, training is an option that you can select to hopefully shorten the learning curve.

------

If you decide to jump in like many do, have a conversation with some bat folks in your state, other nwcos, bat biologists, G&F bat folks, etc.....

In the case of this statement in talking right to throwback, being in CA you have some serious bat professionals that have been around 15-25+ years and they know the massive number of species in your state and what their maternity seasons are.

This is one of the needed pieces of info to avoid problems for your homeowner and for the bats you are trying to exclude.

We have pups as early as April here in NM and have had pups as late as August 25th. I'm talking non volant (flying) pups that would be trapped inside walls if not accounted for and timing of exclusion adjusted.

Every year the number of bids we give to people who hired someone who made the homeowners bat problem worse grows.

This following stand out in the last couple of years.

1) two pieces of bat guano were on a living room table below a tongue and groove ceiling. Management company hired the local guy who said he does hundreds of these. He came and during the day foamed the soffit joints where the bats were evident, this was after he tore down the ceiling board and dropped massive amounts of dead bats, live bats, and guano all over these folks floor. He then shop vacuumed the debris, replaced the board and left.

That night the folks got there and were awakened by 32 live bats flying around inside. The owner a retired man with a heart condition ran around catching bats many of whom bit him while he was grabbing after them in an attempt to escape. He received post exposure shots and he called a company we knew that referred him to us the next day. We ripped the foam out as we could hear the live bats behind the walls still.

He and his wife say that night and did a bat watch and saw 2-300 bats emerge from the foam closed holes.

We did a proper exclusion two months later and they had no issues in the meantime as they didn't have an inside the house problem.

---
One I'm doing this spring I looked at two years ago and bid at the time. They hired a local pco who hung loose bird net in an attempt to make a barrier to the bats getting into the house. The result was where there were no interior bats prior, his net caught the first bats to emerge and the remaining members of the colony started flying inside the by emerging through gaps in the log cabin, result a potential exposure and a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) of client. They finally decided this year they'd trust that someone else who does this for a living was worth trying.

----

So I don't bias this to my state there are first hand stories I've had where folks are doing large 5-600 bat exclusions during summer months when maternity season is in full swing, there are others whre G&F and dept of ag (pesticide enforcement) are getting involved due to operators are spraying various products on or into colony areas into drive bats out it kill them both of course illegal. No legal registered toxicants.

----

I say all of this to say proceed as you would with any animal species but If you can either in your area or elsewhere get some time with someone at least talking through exclusion.

Eric, Ron S and many others have provided valuable advice on here over the years and I remember those points as I see various scenarios.

Even with training anyone can fail to apply it properly or simply make a mistake we all do, just .02 or maybe .05

Justin

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991715
04/02/15 04:32 PM
04/02/15 04:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
mequon, wisconsin
While I have caught many bats flying around in people's houses, I do not do exclusions. ( We have a son for that ) Here's my point:

and I'm not arguing that WNS isn't a terrible disease that kills bats, but what I'm saying is that it appears that there are actually

more bats and consequently more bat calls than ever before. I don't think you can use the argument that people are more aware of bats

because of all the publicity. People still only call if they have a bat or bats flying around in their house. I understand that we

may get more calls because of better advertising but I believe nearly everyone in our area is getting more calls too. Including the

the huge pest control companies who shouldn't be allowed to touch a bat job. I'm just wondering if this is a local thing or if nearly

all of you guys are having the same experience?

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991810
04/02/15 05:55 PM
04/02/15 05:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Central NC
T
traprjohn Offline
trapper
traprjohn  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Central NC
belonging to WildlifePro network/website could open doors, as well as NWCOA.


www.sevenoakstrappingsupplies.com for trap mods and gear
The 10 Commandments are not suggestions.
Buy a soldiers meal EVERY chance you can.

Re: Learning to do bats? [Re: Throw Back] #4991878
04/02/15 06:36 PM
04/02/15 06:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
1st civ. Div. Wood County Wi.
M
Mike Flick Offline
trapper
Mike Flick  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Apr 2012
1st civ. Div. Wood County Wi.
You need to know bats and their abilities, inabilities to be successful at excluding them. Study up on the cave bats in your area and learn all you can. If you are reading, read it 10-15 times. Same with videos, 10-15 times. THEN go on the road with someone for a week. Now, you are a beginner, and should be able to move on your own and continue learning.
GOOD LUCK!

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