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Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215298
10/01/15 11:01 PM
10/01/15 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,960
Northern Nevada
B
Bob Offline
trapper
Bob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,960
Northern Nevada
I started out using bridger #3s and I still love them. Fully modified and tricked out they're awesome as a coyote trap. BUT! there are a lot of areas I don't feel comfortable using such a big heavy trap, for fear of catching a dog or a cat or whatever. I don't care who you are, that 550 is a whole heck of a lot easier on a barn cats leg than a #3 sized trap. This is where the 550 shines. I feel a lot better about it using the 550 because I know that (because I've been there and done that) it will be far better for non targets. A coyote can take a #3 bridger and you can turn him loose and he can keep on trucking. A house cat, not so much. Plus, it makes people that I meet along the way feel a bit better seeing the little 550 as opposed to a #3, because they do look intimidating.

I love both traps, I use both every year. They each have a use on my line, but tell you the truth I find myself setting more 550s than anything else. They just fit the bill in so many ways.

Like you said mark, proof is in the pudding. To each their own, I'm not faulting anyone for using whatever it is they like to use, just wanted to defend the 550 a little because they're a heap better than some on this thread was givin them credit for. It isn't hype. There's a reason they don't come up for sale on the trap shed often, and I've never seen any used ones for sale at a convention.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215389
10/02/15 12:53 AM
10/02/15 12:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
C
coon grease Offline
trapper
coon grease  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
Got me all wrong bob. No vendetta here. Just calling it like I see it. Alex asked about our opinions of three different traps. I have used all three and have used them where he lives. I dont think the 550 is the best option. 4 3/4 inside jaw spread on a coyote trap? Look at that trap in the set position and visualize a coyotes foot. Its pretty hard to get a coyotes paw on that pan without it also being on the jaws somewhere. This is the reason I'm a little puzzled by the comments about misfires with bigger traps?...if 550s are what a guy feels comfortable with, use them. I don't care. But don't take my word for it. Seek out a high numbers coyote trapper, a real killer with lots of production and ask them their opinion of the 550's.

Interesting you mention the 3ns mark. I don't own many but i would certainly not hesitate to set them anywhere and would never expect them to be too bad on foot damage. After all, they are about the same size as a 1.75 and have smooth cast offset jaws. Lots in common with the 550's.

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215402
10/02/15 01:40 AM
10/02/15 01:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 91
western maine
D
dougG270 Offline
trapper
dougG270  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 91
western maine
I personally like the 550 but I'm a mix line guy. If I was going to be setting for soley coyotes I would look for a larger trap that was the quality of the 550, if I couldn't find it I would stay with the 550. A word of caution about running traps really close to max width, your measuring tape may not be the same as the wardens and guess whos tape matters.

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215403
10/02/15 01:40 AM
10/02/15 01:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,772
central Illinois
yoteguts Offline
trapper
yoteguts  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,772
central Illinois
I've ran both and greatly prefer the vic/monty #3. They keep changing the jaws on the 550 and I've seen foot damage . Always had good feet in the vic/montys. The foot is so deep in this trap when they fire it 99% of the time there toes are still on the pan. Just because a trap is popular doesnt make it the best choice for everyone. Different strokes for different folks I guess.






Last edited by yoteguts; 10/02/15 01:41 AM.



I'm itchin' to see a coyote twitchin'.

More trappin' and less yappin'.



Member FTA & USSA.





Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215423
10/02/15 05:19 AM
10/02/15 05:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,464
Southern Indiana
FOXCATCHER Offline
trapper
FOXCATCHER  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,464
Southern Indiana
Here is my two cents, for what it's worth. I started my trapping life as a tiny trap guy as one guy would say. I had nothing but tricked out 1.75s and caught a bunch if coyotes with them. Using the smaller trap early in my career helped me with trapping fundamentals.

About 3 years into this trapping thing I bought my first dozen victor #3 round jaws offset. My catch increased dramatically!!! I was using them stock at first so I did see some damage. After some laminations and shorter chains that was quickly eliminated. I kept some of my tricked out Duke and Victor 1.75s for the high theft areas since they were not eating anything hanging in the shed. They served their purpose well. Lost several of those 1.75s over the years but caught a few ocean liner loads of fur in places I might have passed up. I still used my #3s behind locked gates as Mark put it. This does NOT mean I didn't have my run ins with farmer's dogs. With everyone of my #3s that caught the farmer's dogs there was ZERO damage.

Fast forward to about 5 years ago. I had made up my mind to give the 550s an honest try. I bought two dozen new and traded for a dozen that was a year old according to the previous owner. I worked them into my line just as I would my #3s. I had high hopes and was almost dead set on retooling my whole line with 550s. I read so many reviews and saw so many pics on here that I was certain the Cavens had a fairy sprinkling magic dust on them before being shipped.

Then it started. Sprung traps with nothing in them. I mean more empty traps set off after being worked by a coyote. No nontargets, but tracks-in-the-pattern proof of coyotes. I have NEVER had much issue with bedding, or set construction. Remember, I learned with little traps so my set construction had to be above average. I was worried!!! I tried everything. I'm sure it was something I was doing wrong but could not figure it out.

Now, there comes a point that, when you are a part time trapper, you have to give up. Why change what was working so well???? Something with the heavy cast jaws, weak springs and that PawsiTrip system just wasn't working for me. Not sure what but most of those 550s have found new homes. And yes, several 550s DO show up on the trap shed every couple weeks so the next victim can learn a lesson. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they have their place and some trappers DO use them effectively. Just not me and I don't have time to try to learn.

Fast forward to two years ago. I made a deal on the Trap Shed with Rob (yoteguts) for a few fully modded new model Monty #3 and #4s. I set them that following season and they worked like a charm!!!! Those new style Montys are great for my style and methods. I also like my Bridger #3s too.

As far as taking advise on line goes, I have received great advise here over the years. I also have tried some things that just didn't work for ME. Was their methods right or wrong?? Not necessarily. It just didn't work for me.

Coongrease, while I agree on your stance on this issue, you contradict yourself by advising trappers to take advise from high number coyote guys. Mark has probably trapped more coyotes in a two week stretch than most will trap in a season or two. He makes the traps work for him. Some of us just don't have the time to work those issues out. I have about 4-5 hours a day to run hard. If a guy runs all day he has a little more room for error.

Don

Last edited by FOXCATCHER; 10/02/15 05:30 AM.

With it or on it. A way of life

There's a lot of smart people, far fewer wise men... NonPCfed
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215613
10/02/15 10:11 AM
10/02/15 10:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,835
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
Wright Brothers  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,835
Pa
When 550s first came out I handled ONE.
Right away I saw a couple of things I didn't like.
I handled ONE 450 the other day and it seemed improved.

Did the maker take criticism wisely and make changes?
If so, smart man.

I like the Vic 3 just fine.

The newer Mont I have no experience so wont say but can say the old high levered model was ahead of it's time.

They are just traps, buy some each and try em.





Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215639
10/02/15 10:35 AM
10/02/15 10:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,960
Northern Nevada
B
Bob Offline
trapper
Bob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,960
Northern Nevada
I wonder what could have been causing that, Don? Seems weird to me, I have never, not one single time, had a 550 with tracks on it and no catch. Never had anything pull out of one, never had one miss. Maybe I just got lucky but I haven't seen a single one of the problems you experienced, and I've got about 6 dozen 550s. its not like I bought two to try out, I've been running them hard for four years and they've outperformed every other stock trap I have.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: FOXCATCHER] #5215649
10/02/15 10:43 AM
10/02/15 10:43 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 23
Central Indiana
J
jstetter83 Offline
trapper
jstetter83  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 23
Central Indiana
Originally Posted By: FOXCATCHER
Here is my two cents, for what it's worth. I started my trapping life as a tiny trap guy as one guy would say. I had nothing but tricked out 1.75s and caught a bunch if coyotes with them. Using the smaller trap early in my career helped me with trapping fundamentals.

About 3 years into this trapping thing I bought my first dozen victor #3 round jaws offset. My catch increased dramatically!!! I was using them stock at first so I did see some damage. After some laminations and shorter chains that was quickly eliminated. I kept some of my tricked out Duke and Victor 1.75s for the high theft areas since they were not eating anything hanging in the shed. They served their purpose well. Lost several of those 1.75s over the years but caught a few ocean liner loads of fur in places I might have passed up. I still used my #3s behind locked gates as Mark put it. This does NOT mean I didn't have my run ins with farmer's dogs. With everyone of my #3s that caught the farmer's dogs there was ZERO damage.

Fast forward to about 5 years ago. I had made up my mind to give the 550s an honest try. I bought two dozen new and traded for a dozen that was a year old according to the previous owner. I worked them into my line just as I would my #3s. I had high hopes and was almost dead set on retooling my whole line with 550s. I read so many reviews and saw so many pics on here that I was certain the Cavens had a fairy sprinkling magic dust on them before being shipped.

Then it started. Sprung traps with nothing in them. I mean more empty traps set off after being worked by a coyote. No nontargets, but tracks-in-the-pattern proof of coyotes. I have NEVER had much issue with bedding, or set construction. Remember, I learned with little traps so my set construction had to be above average. I was worried!!! I tried everything. I'm sure it was something I was doing wrong but could not figure it out.

Now, there comes a point that, when you are a part time trapper, you have to give up. Why change what was working so well???? Something with the heavy cast jaws, weak springs and that PawsiTrip system just wasn't working for me. Not sure what but most of those 550s have found new homes. And yes, several 550s DO show up on the trap shed every couple weeks so the next victim can learn a lesson. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they have their place and some trappers DO use them effectively. Just not me and I don't have time to try to learn.

Fast forward to two years ago. I made a deal on the Trap Shed with Rob (yoteguts) for a few fully modded new model Monty #3 and #4s. I set them that following season and they worked like a charm!!!! Those new style Montys are great for my style and methods. I also like my Bridger #3s too.

As far as taking advise on line goes, I have received great advise here over the years. I also have tried some things that just didn't work for ME. Was their methods right or wrong?? Not necessarily. It just didn't work for me.

Coongrease, while I agree on your stance on this issue, you contradict yourself by advising trappers to take advise from high number coyote guys. Mark has probably trapped more coyotes in a two week stretch than most will trap in a season or two. He makes the traps work for him. Some of us just don't have the time to work those issues out. I have about 4-5 hours a day to run hard. If a guy runs all day he has a little more room for error.

Don


I've had great support from Mr. June and try to read everything he writes... With that said, I am to inexperienced to have an opinion, but thought that someone should certainly say thank you to FOXCATCHER (Don)... A lot of ppl on here hassle and hate... Don, you gave credit where due and also provided great insight for us new guys... just letting you know your response was refreshing and educating...

Thanks a million,
Jered

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: FOXCATCHER] #5215768
10/02/15 12:02 PM
10/02/15 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
Don, were the empty 550's still in the bed or did coyotes pull out? I'm puzzled by the empty fired 550's, Ive been running them for 6 years and have only lost 1 coyote out of many. One thing that comes to mind is did you tighten up the dog eye? If there is to much slop in the dog eye the heat and cold causes expansion and contraction can cause fired traps in the bed. Help me understand.

I always tighten the dog eye with any dog on trap to eliminate this.


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215783
10/02/15 12:19 PM
10/02/15 12:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,459
Montana
Taximan Offline
trapper
Taximan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,459
Montana
Regarding the OP's original question,if the landowners are applying pressure to kill coyotes,they should apply it in the form of cash and theft shouldn't be the trapper's problem.Then,just use the trap you think will work the best for you,whatever that is.

Regarding the MB 550,my experience mirror's Bob's.
"I wonder what could have been causing that, Don? Seems weird to me, I have never, not one single time, had a 550 with tracks on it and no catch. Never had anything pull out of one, never had one miss. Maybe I just got lucky but I haven't seen a single one of the problems you experienced, and I've got about 6 dozen 550s. its not like I bought two to try out, I've been running them hard for four years and they've outperformed every other stock trap I have."

Except for changing the chain/swivel setup to suit me,I've only used mine stock,just as they come and all are two coiled.So far,every catch has been a full,above the pad catch,no damage,no misses or set off traps.I rarely measure pan tension but whatever it is on these,is working the way I like it.I have sets that are danced on nightly by cottontails and so far,none have fired the traps but they still catch any fox or any size bobcat that steps on one.Interestingly,there is a thread going on right now about pan tension on the 550's and many are trying to reduce it.I always keep my pan tension at a point where those cottontails and smaller animals can't fire them and these have worked well in that regard.

Regarding jaw spread,the 550's jaw spread is identical to the Victor 3N which has been used by government men to take hundreds of thousands of coyotes over many decades.I believe more jawspread can give you some slight advantage but 5 1/2" isn't too bad.For my situation,choosing a trap size is trying to balance size and strength against weight carried and the size trap bed I have to chop in frozen ground.If I had my way,the 550 would have a 6" jawspread,without changing anything else.
There was a time when a trap with a 6 1/2" jawspread would have been called a #4.The number designation isn't important.Makers change that all the time.The only thing that matters is if it works for it's intended purpose.

As for power,that hasn't been an issue either.My first ones were 4 coiled and as soon as I set one,I immediately removed all the extra coils for two reasons.One,to make them easier to set with my hands and I also knew that 4 coiled,they were much more likely to hold a lion.Unfortunately,one of the two coil 550's still held a lion.The good news is,it released itself just as I got up on it but not before leveling a lot of landscape.That's the only lion that found one so far but I believe most will be able to pull out and that's important to me as well.In the past,I've had lions blow the jaws out of traps,bow frames and damage dogs but this particular trap was in good shape and could be reset.

I also don't have unlimited time and that's another reason I got the MB550's-I just haven't had to work on them.I've yet to see a trap that I thought was perfect but at least for my needs,the MB 550's are a darn good trap,probably the best I've owned.

Here are a few pictures.These weren't cherry picked,just a few that I took when I thought about it.This is typical of what I've seen with these traps.Not the lever lock up on these.




Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215871
10/02/15 01:35 PM
10/02/15 01:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
C
coon grease Offline
trapper
coon grease  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
Does anyone know one of the top numbers men who uses 550's?
How about anyone who has to catch or kill predators for a living , who relies on 550's?

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5215879
10/02/15 01:43 PM
10/02/15 01:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
Well I know the top fox man In the country uses #2 vics with forged jaws. And has stated that they work just fine on coyotes.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: coon grease] #5216004
10/02/15 04:02 PM
10/02/15 04:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
Sir, What number would qualify as a top number? And what do you base that number on?


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5216010
10/02/15 04:07 PM
10/02/15 04:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,464
Southern Indiana
FOXCATCHER Offline
trapper
FOXCATCHER  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,464
Southern Indiana
Thanks for the kind words jstetter.


Bob and others, I'm usually pretty good at trouble shooting empty trap problems. These were definitely pull out issues. Some would be a very light catch circle, some looked like they went to the end of the chain about 2-3 times before pulling out. Had a few toe nails or single toes. This usually indicates too light of pan tension. I considered 4 coiling to up the pan tension but want the coons and foxes that came by. I know I bent the dog to get a little more pan tension out of the box.

That was another issue I had. The stainless rod dog wanted to bend at the eye where the flat part went to round. I didn't want to have to lock every one in a vise to get the dog bent right. I know it's minor but I just like to use two pair of pliers to make the adjustment because I won't have a vise in the field

Also, when I would have a coyote in the 550s, he also found that as a weak point and the dog would be bent at that spot. The round part would be straight but the trap would not set because the dog was bottoming out against the jaws. Now I'm no stranger to bending dogs as it's one of the downfalls of my other #3s that are not dogless so in a head to head comparison that part was a wash.

Don't get me wrong guys, these are solid traps and if I was running a live market hard I might take the time to work out my issues. Once again I am stressing the issue is probably between me and the trap and that's why I switched back to a method that works for me.


With it or on it. A way of life

There's a lot of smart people, far fewer wise men... NonPCfed
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: jstetter83] #5216520
10/02/15 10:33 PM
10/02/15 10:33 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: jstetter83
With that said, I am to inexperienced to have an opinion, but thought that someone should certainly say thank you to FOXCATCHER (Don)... A lot of ppl on here hassle and hate... Don, you gave credit where due and also provided great insight for us new guys... just letting you know your response was refreshing and educating...

Thanks a million,
Jered


X2

Originally Posted By: Taximan


Regarding jaw spread,the 550's jaw spread is identical to the Victor 3N which has been used by government men to take hundreds of thousands of coyotes over many decades.I believe more jawspread can give you some slight advantage but 5 1/2" isn't too bad.For my situation,choosing a trap size is trying to balance size and strength against weight carried and the size trap bed I have to chop in frozen ground.If I had my way,the 550 would have a 6" jawspread,without changing anything else.
There was a time when a trap with a 6 1/2" jawspread would have been called a #4.The number designation isn't important.Makers change that all the time.The only thing that matters is if it works for it's intended purpose.


X2 also...

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: trappergbus] #5216560
10/02/15 11:16 PM
10/02/15 11:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: trappergbus
Sir, What number would qualify as a top number? And what do you base that number on?


Over 800 per year and over 1000 at least one time.
I'm not going to mention his name but he does post here. Most of us know who He Is and can attest to those numbers.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: coon grease] #5216596
10/03/15 12:30 AM
10/03/15 12:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
C
coon grease Offline
trapper
coon grease  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
Originally Posted By: coon grease
Does anyone know one of the top numbers men who uses 550's?
How about anyone who has to catch or kill predators for a living , who relies on 550's?



Yup. Still waiting

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: coon grease] #5216684
10/03/15 07:11 AM
10/03/15 07:11 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: coon grease
Originally Posted By: coon grease
Does anyone know one of the top numbers men who uses 550's?
How about anyone who has to catch or kill predators for a living , who relies on 550's?



Yup. Still waiting


I know some CG and you would too if you asked around. Personally as a trapper who is involved in coyote research projects (I'll be in AL starting this month to catch yotes for UGA with Rusty Johnson) and high fence paying jobs all year long in multiple states... as well as fur trapping different states during legal seasons, there's a MONSTROUS difference between setting fewer traps on a predation contract and hauling my fanny over a lot of ground trying to pile up pelts. Sometimes it's 6 traps job and sometimes it's 250 leg holds on a place... wide variable. That's trapping... variables. That's why the preference of traps is varied and there is no PERFECT answer. Never can be. Different gear perhaps for different situations makes sense. MOST wolfers like me have variable gear for variable situations and the main theme I think is that today's gear has come a long way in the 40+ years I've trapped. I'm 58 years old and the gear I have in my truck/UTV today is vastly BETTER in many ways than when I was 18. From the cordless drill and auger to the buggie, to my truck, to my traps. Can't find a hammer worth a lick but you get the picture. Use what works and keep an open mind. You don't like something, cool. You prefer it, good deal.

When I meet a trapper with drive in his/her heart and an open mind for new ideas, I know I've found a serious trapper. Lee Steinmeyer is here at the KS show and is one such example! The man has gear that is novel and intriguing and top of the line! Hate to have him on the next ranch over cause the competition level he'd bring to the wolfer game would be real.

Ever moving, ever evolving... that is the sport of trapping. And it's a good thing.

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5216757
10/03/15 08:59 AM
10/03/15 08:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
C
coon grease Offline
trapper
coon grease  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 395
2b 2d Pa.
You are a wolfer? Wait, then you say trapping is a sport? Which is it?

Bottom line, there isn't a single high numbers professional who uses mb 550s. And it only makes sense to emulate success. That's all I said. You can put your twist on it all you want. Actually I'm the one with the open mind here and I'm trying to encourage others to do the same and use common sense. You suggest asking around. So do I! But I suggest asking people who are legitimate top producers.

I have to ask since you opened this can of worms. How does a"wolfer" like you go about doing all of this ADC work, when you are camped out at every convention all summer and spring?

Koolaid anyone?

Who is one single high numbers trapper who uses 550's ? Don't tell me its a secret like all ofnyhe imaginary urine collection facilities.

Re: Victor #3 vs. mb-550 vs. Montgomery #3 [Re: beaver trapper] #5216804
10/03/15 09:51 AM
10/03/15 09:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 74
N.W. Missouri
S
Swivel Offline
trapper
Swivel  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 74
N.W. Missouri
Coon grease. I gotta ask. Since you are attempting to run off a great trapper and teacher. How many coyotes have you caught?

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