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aerial predators #5384065
01/25/16 09:57 AM
01/25/16 09:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247
rhode island
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ritrapper Offline OP
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ritrapper  Offline OP
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rhode island
I have been working with a beagle club to reduce predators. The main issue seems to be hawks and owls. This is a one hundred acre fenced in area with rabbits stocked on the grounds. We have been dropping all of the trees on the property to reduce perching options for the birds along with added cover for the rabbits. There will still be large trees around the outside border of the fence line when we are done because of boundary issues. Have any of you guys done anything like this and if so are there any effective deterrent options that I should be looking at?


Steve Rouleau
New England Wildlife

http://newildlifesolutions.com/
401-330-8168

Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384191
01/25/16 11:20 AM
01/25/16 11:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,240
West Michigan
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Getting There Offline
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Getting There  Offline
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West Michigan
The first thing I would do is contact your CO and let him/her know you have a problem. But you have to remember you are creating the problem. It is like having a bird feeder than not liking the Coopers Hawk or other bird of pray come and eating the birds. But it is combinable that you are not just shooting them like some other would. Maybe there is a falconer in your area that could offer some suggestion or give you a hand. JMO.


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384251
01/25/16 12:11 PM
01/25/16 12:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
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HD_Wildlife Offline
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NM
Steve,

I think as you know already the variety of birds of prey and their hunting behavior makes it tricky to find one solution in terms of habitat modification.

Removing the trees might reduce perches or create more visibility for the rabbits to have a chance to see the raptor before is strikes, however creating a more open space could open up more species of larger less agile hawks that need more field or open space to hunt.

I'd favor heavily the brush piles and all that slash from the tree felling should make a bundle of those.

If the rabbits are "wild" species but hutch raised without brush piles and cover their naivety is one of the biggest factors that likely can't largely be overcome. Same with pen reared game birds, they get put out for hunting without much regard to if they can survive till the hunters find them.

Not sure if something like the eagle eye would do any good against predatory birds the way it works for pigeons and others but maybe worth looking into with bird barrier.

Otherwise building quality brush piles with a solid foundation that has various entry and exit points is as good as it gets.

On my grandparents property in upstate ny we used black locust felling to create piles. Nice logs underneath to create linear paths to evade fox and coyote and weasels with tons of brush piled on top.

I'd also think about if they are hutch raised rabbits who haven't been in a wilder scene doing an enclosure that is a pre release structure with some brush piles and so forth. Essentially creating a "soft" release where they are a bit wilder when out out and have search images for the brush piles.

Could even start them under piles where they get food and water close to the pile but can run and hide if they see an aerial shadow coming.

There's an old pub that shows young game birds would crouch and freeze when a shadow came over despite being generations of put and take heritage without wild experience.

Anyway, I understand removing snags but I'd think about just making more protection cover on the ground with the distance raptors see open fields to me wouldn't favor the prey on this case stocked rabbits.

Forgot to add owls would certainly be on my mind too where rabbits are really at a disadvantage at night.

Just .02

Justin

Last edited by HD_Wildlife; 01/25/16 12:16 PM.
Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384317
01/25/16 12:46 PM
01/25/16 12:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,240
West Michigan
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Getting There Offline
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West Michigan
Some guy started with wooden pallets then covered them with brush.


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384342
01/25/16 01:04 PM
01/25/16 01:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247
rhode island
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ritrapper Offline OP
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rhode island
We have been felling the trees taking big logs out and piling tops to create more ground cover. With the smaller trees we are hinging them and pushing them over into pile of sorts. Leaving the hinge intact let's the tree produce leaves for even more ground cover. I am hoping this will reduce damage enough so its manageable. I was just looking for anything that might scare off the predatory birds.
Another beagle club here in RI got in big trouble about ten years ago for killing raptors with pole sets. The feds had a big investigation. There were huge fines that they had imposed on them.


Steve Rouleau
New England Wildlife

http://newildlifesolutions.com/
401-330-8168

Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384463
01/25/16 02:10 PM
01/25/16 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,591
SW Pa
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Bob Jameson Offline
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SW Pa
Cutting down trees won't discourage birds of prey very much. It will just make flight easier for them to make air approaches to capture them. Providing cover in terms of shelter such as brush piles as stated and cover grasses like switch grass etc. will help them to find escape and harborage areas as needed. Dozer push up piles filled around with brush and planted with blackberry bushes or other native shrubs will also help to add cover for the rabbits.

The skid / pallet use is a clever way to help establish man made cover as is the placing 6 inch 6 ft. length black corrugated drain pipe sections all around the area for fast cover options. These pipes are well used by cottontails in areas of protection that we have used over the years for fast cover options with nominal investment. Just blend them in with logs,debris and ground cover to blend them. We buy 100 ft. rolls of this drain pipe and cut as needed. A very quick and easy application of cover protection. After a couple of weeks they are found and used by the local population.

Without immediate adequate escape cover hawks and particularly owls will have a field day with open area compounds. Owls are the primary problem with cottontails from our control work experience and are very efficient predators. When snow cover is on, rabbits are a beacon in the night for owls. They don't miss much.

Removing some perch areas will help a bit but they can see a long ways out from the fringe areas as well. At that point they just change their tactics by doing pass over flights to recon the area.

For practical or discouraging implements for the raptors I haven't found anything that is worth investing in. If you have an available food source they will work around your efforts in a short period of time and modify their tactics.

"Cover and habitat escape areas" are going to be your best defense to protect the resource and is the most reasonable long term course of action.

Re: aerial predators [Re: Getting There] #5384555
01/25/16 03:22 PM
01/25/16 03:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,823
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
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LAtrapper Offline
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Originally Posted By: Getting There
Some guy started with wooden pallets then covered them with brush.

Many businesses use forklifts to move pallets of goods around. Frequently these pallets are thrown away and are available for the asking. These pallets make excellent protected pathways under piles of branches and brush. Large quantities of pallets are often available on Craig’s List around here. http://dothan.craigslist.org/for/5406760766.html

https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting/Rabbits.pdf

http://extension.psu.edu/natural-resources/wildlife/habitat-management/pa-wildlife-9


Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry

Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384664
01/25/16 04:58 PM
01/25/16 04:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 749
Schenectady, NY
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EatenByLimestone Offline
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Schenectady, NY
I'd check if you can legally do this, but I wonder if gridding can help. It works to exclude ponds from geese. I imagine that it could similarly discourage predators. I'd make sure it's legal before doing it though.

Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384758
01/25/16 06:17 PM
01/25/16 06:17 PM
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Posts: 21,031
St. Louis Co, Mo
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BigBob Offline
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Hinge cutting Cedar trees will let the tree live and continue to grow, especially on top of a Multi-Flora Rose, or black berry/raspberry patch. Makes excellent cover, especially if dropped on a log lattice or pallet setting on small logs or rocks to make entry quicker. Also works to keep Fox/Yotes off them.

If you can get a depradation permit for LIVE removal, An Offset trap in the 1-1/2,#2 size with a piece of plumbing pipe insulation foam over the jaws, sitting on top of a high pole that's hinged to lower for removal will do you. They need to be released a log ways away from their home, (25-30 miles) or they will just come back.


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Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5384942
01/25/16 07:57 PM
01/25/16 07:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,240
West Michigan
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Getting There Offline
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BigBob:
Multi-Flora Rose and black berry/raspberry bushes are not fit for man or beast!! It take a well seasoned beagle to go in Multi-Flora Rose. But it sure holds rabbits in the winter. One thing that is being forgot is, there has to be a food supply for the rabbits. Also it is good to have some water near. Give the cover a chance to fill in along with brush pile and in time the rabbit will get smart and lean what hawk and Owls are all about. There are many other factors a play here. JMO


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: aerial predators [Re: ritrapper] #5385642
01/26/16 06:09 AM
01/26/16 06:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247
rhode island
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ritrapper Offline OP
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rhode island
thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it.


Steve Rouleau
New England Wildlife

http://newildlifesolutions.com/
401-330-8168

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