Trap Collecting


No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum



~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Sargent Clutch Rare #5417460
02/14/16 05:30 PM
02/14/16 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
[/URL]

Original Trap

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417485
02/14/16 05:49 PM
02/14/16 05:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,319
Missouri
N
Nhousecattrapper Offline
trapper
Nhousecattrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,319
Missouri
I have seen three of these over the years, and they have all looked the same and in my own opinion for what it is worth, I do not think that Sargent made a clutch trap. The posts on a Sargent cast pan series will have that dimple flare on both front and back of the posts. This one, as well as the others I have seen do not. I believe all that I have seen have had a set of Newhouse jaws with clutch post put in a #4 Cast Pan Sargent. The guy to actually ask about these Sargent Clutch traps would be Trapper48, as he is an avid historian on Sargent's as well as having more than likely the largest Sargent collection around.


"PURVEYOR OF FINE ANTIQUTIES and RARE TRAPS". Member... MTA/CFM/NTA/NRA/NATCA #0620
Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417504
02/14/16 06:00 PM
02/14/16 06:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
Bruce, I took this picture at PTA state convention 5 or 6 years ago Guy who had it for 35 years hanging on his wall.Was offered so much that he sold it.Only one that I have seen.

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417512
02/14/16 06:03 PM
02/14/16 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
[/URL]

Side view

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417534
02/14/16 06:16 PM
02/14/16 06:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
I know that a bunch of collectors were going nuts over this one.I heard that it went for over a $1000 at the Show.Need more input on this model,maybe some others have same trap.I did not look over this trap,just snapped a few pics, as the owner was taking it to new owner.If it had been altered it was 40 or more years ago.Bruce

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417538
02/14/16 06:18 PM
02/14/16 06:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,319
Missouri
N
Nhousecattrapper Offline
trapper
Nhousecattrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,319
Missouri
I think I heard about that trap and was told that a guy came up from down south, maybe Virginia? Was carrying it around and sold it to the highest offer. Also heard from a couple guys that were at that show and saw it say it was strange the way the guy just appeared with the trap and story and then disappeared. Lets see what Trapper48 says about it when he sees it.


"PURVEYOR OF FINE ANTIQUTIES and RARE TRAPS". Member... MTA/CFM/NTA/NRA/NATCA #0620
Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417563
02/14/16 06:31 PM
02/14/16 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
I have seen many times, where guys come into Shows with Rare Traps.Seems like every big Show.One fellow had a bucket of 81 and 81 1/2 Newhouse traps.He got $ 600 or so.Told me traps were given to him at a bar

.Anothers had around a dozen stop theifs,and a 3 or 4 half circle trap.Davenport.

A fellow came in with a Gibbs live net muskrat trap,sold to highest bidder around $500 or 600 range.As he was walking out of show I heard him tell his son what will we do with the other 2 traps left in barn,same model.

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417814
02/14/16 08:54 PM
02/14/16 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline
trapper
trapper48  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
Sargent made traps for approximately 30 years, the bolted jaw Oneida pattern series and the bolted jaw 20 series were made with bolted jaws until around 1902, after that the Oneida series was made like the Victors of the day except with a square pan and the 20 series was made with cast pan and jaws with hooked jaw ends, that all being said the trap that Bruce1 took the picture of would be the right model for the clutch period of production, but as Nhousecattrapper pointed out you have two different jaw posts on the trap pictured, the post with the clutches is a Newhouse jaw post, the jaw post without the clutches is a Sargent jaw post and you can tell by 2 different ways, the obvious like Nhousecattrapper pointed out is the two wings or flares on the sides of the Sargent posts just above the bottom spring eye, Newhouse jaw posts don't have the wings or flares, the other way is just a little harder to see and that is the Sargent jaw posts have more of a rounded or eased edge on the top of the post the Newhouse post is more at a squared off end. The only advertising Sargent did to promote their traps was in their own tool and hardware catalogs, the large counter catalogs from 1884, 1888, 1894, 1901 and 1910 which have over 1,000 pages of Sargent products, none of them have a Sargent Clutch trap listed for sale. Sargent was very proud of their 20 Series traps that they have a half a page beautiful hand drawn picture right down to the last detail of a 23 Sargent, a bolted jaw model in the 1894 counter catalog and a hooked jaw model in the 1910 counter catalog, now if they had made a clutch trap they would have been as equally proud of that and at least would have advertised it for sale, if not had a picture of that too. Around the time period of the clutch traps you could order any parts from Oneida Community that you wanted, they were out to make money and they would sell what parts you would want, IN MY OPINION that is where I believe the Sargent Clutch trap originated, IN MY OPINION. None of the Sargent Clutch traps that I have seen or handled personally have had Sargent jaw posts, only one that I have seen even had factory clutches the rest were home made and didn't even match each other. We saw one in Ohio at the NTA a couple years ago and handled that one, that one had both Newhouse posts and the clutches weren't even close to matching.
I believe the trap pictured is the way they found it, the patina matches and the clutches look good, but I believe it was put together when all the parts were available new, but it still does not make it a factory Sargent Clutch trap. This is one trap that I would advise any prospective buyer to be very cautious of, they are neat looking, BUT.......
In my humble opinion,
Kevin

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: trapper48] #5417833
02/14/16 09:02 PM
02/14/16 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
Now if authenic ? whats's it worth.

Or non factory made up from Newhouse post and clutches ?

For the collector that ended up with it I hope it's legit.From what I saw of it about 2 minutes it looked darn nice.I'm sure no one intended on pasting it off, years ago as factory.If I had the money at that time, I may have bought it.Thanks for all your info on this subject.Bruce

Last edited by Bruce1; 02/14/16 09:08 PM.
Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417860
02/14/16 09:15 PM
02/14/16 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,726
North Missouri
L
longbow31 Offline
trapper
longbow31  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,726
North Missouri
thanks for the all the knowledge Kevin. very interesting.

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5417930
02/14/16 09:57 PM
02/14/16 09:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline
trapper
trapper48  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
I heard at that time about what the buyer paid for it, but I don't remember either, but with original Newhouse post and clutches, it would still be a valuable trap, just because of those two parts. Last year I Remember a #3 or #4 Newhouse with a clutch post and no clutches selling on eBay in the high $400.00 range and that was without the clutches and I remember Bruce saying he's seen them sell for a lot more than that just for a clutch post alone and the original Newhouse clutches should be worth way more than that, in my opinion. So, if the buyer of that trap paid $1,200.00 - $1,500.00 and the post and clutches are original, I don't think he or she got hurt, again in my opinion.

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: trapper48] #5417985
02/14/16 10:29 PM
02/14/16 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
Thanks Kevin, Who knows when it comes to traps.#6 Blake and Lamb sold for $ 40,000 range a while back.

Last edited by Bruce1; 02/14/16 10:30 PM.
Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5418019
02/14/16 10:44 PM
02/14/16 10:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline
trapper
trapper48  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
That is true Bruce, you never know. All collectors at one time have paid more for an item than the majority think it's worth, I know I have, but the important thing is, if it makes us happy and we enjoy it, we don't have to justify it to anyone, that's what makes collecting addicting.

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5418474
02/15/16 10:42 AM
02/15/16 10:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34
Ontario
M
mushrat Offline
trapper
mushrat  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34
Ontario
I had been told that Newhouse clutches were produced with a slot so they could be added and removed at the trappers discretion. Unlike the sargent where as the clutches only had a single hole in which they were fastened at the time the jaws were riveted on. I heard this from some very knowledgable collectors .....

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: mushrat] #5419113
02/15/16 06:59 PM
02/15/16 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
Trap in picture had the clutches pinned permanent

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5419176
02/15/16 07:30 PM
02/15/16 07:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline
trapper
trapper48  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
I was told a long time ago by knowledgeable collectors also that when Oneida Community discontinued the clutch traps, that they had clutches left over, so they put them on Hawley & Norton traps and rivited them to the outside of the jaws, so they didn't need the larger jaw post to fit the clutch and jaws both, I have pictures of a rivited pan #4 H & N with clutches rivited to the jaws and the clutches on it don't have the slots on it, it would be like the ones in Bruces picture of the #4 Sargent. I'll look and see if I can find the pictures of it when I get home later today, we are out working on the house right now, so it will be later today. There is nothing more than I could wish for in this addictive hobby of trap collecting, than if somebody can come up with proof positive, that Sargent & Co. made a clutch trap, I would love to have one, but it would have to be 100% made from Sargent parts.

Last edited by trapper48; 02/15/16 07:32 PM.
Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: trapper48] #5419278
02/15/16 08:26 PM
02/15/16 08:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
Yes this is a great hobby.Example Cooper humane traps I have # 1 and 1 1/2 regular longsprings not clutch or barrel a foothold trap.Never seen any adds for them for sale.415 Triumph with blank pan, you would think that a trapper made the pan.Triumph made some first runs of a model with blank pans.This was found out by Fred Stine of Tennesee.He got many boxes of triumph literature from daughter of Triumph President.Lohmar add shows a longspring model with stoploss, anyone have one.Traps did not really get big value until 1980's.Any Pre 1980 traps, altered or replicas ect. were not made to make a profit,money was not there then.You just have to educate yourself on traps,go to Shows talk to collectors,watching online is a good way to learn.I am no expert,have friends that are really knowlegable on traps.You could not get any better group of people together than a bunch of Trap Collectors at a Show.I bought a 1 1/2 Dwight 15 years ago thought it was real deal tried too trade it last year it came back like a bad check.I had no idea it was wrong.I took it to a pile of well known eastern collectors they said it was right.Newhousecattrapper pointed out that it was in fact an altered cortland trap.THis shows how a trap can go for years until someone catches it as wrong.Bruce

Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5419477
02/15/16 09:52 PM
02/15/16 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline
trapper
trapper48  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 311
Missouri
Here are pictures of the #4 H&N with clutches attached to the end of the jaws and they have the rounded ends that would attach to the jaw post, but the one thing I did notice this time around after looking at them, is the shank is shorter on these than would be a normal size set of Newhouse clutches, so the slotted part of a normal set of Newhouse clutches could have been cut down and rounded off before they were attached to this trap. I do agree with you Bruce, I believe the trap you took the pictures of was sold as it was found and nobody was trying to pass off a made up trap just to make some big money.



Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: trapper48] #5419525
02/15/16 10:12 PM
02/15/16 10:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
[/URL]

[/URL]


[/URL]
Roger in white shirt

Here's a 24 or 4 Roger Mason had in 2014 Don't have good close ups of it.If anyone knew Roger he was a Bear Trap Guy but had alot of antique traps knowledge.Sure miss him.

Last edited by Bruce1; 02/15/16 10:17 PM.
Re: Sargent Clutch Rare [Re: Bruce1] #5424075
02/18/16 08:38 PM
02/18/16 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline OP
trapper
Bruce1  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 345
Candor NY
[/URL]

I think this is the real deal, with removeable clutches, newhouse clutch trap.Pic taken at Nta Ohio 2009 or 2013

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Moderated by  cohunt 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1