So I go on a bat call today, the women is convinced she has a huge problem

She is just completely I distant that the first thing I do is go all the way to the back of the attic and tell her what is see. Because someone else has already been up there to inspect. It takes me a while and some talking to get her to tell me what it is she is so freaked out about

She finally tells me the "other guy said there is a very large amount of poop up there ". She then tells me after my intial exterior inspection in which I pointed out a couple of potential entry points that "you missed that one right up there". It was the ridge vent

So I then go up in to the attic which is easy to see where the other guy walked A go in further and do a complete inspection. I find the smallest amount of guano and some obvious mous runs. And that's it

I get down and tell her. That guy didn't show you any pictures did he. "Oh yes he did, piles of poop"

I then say so what about that ridge vent did he say. (It has the end shingle missing but no exposure to weather and no way for a bat to enter). She say " he said the entire thing had to come off and needs to be replaced"

I said so he wants a couple thousand to clean out your attic, re-insulate and replace that vent right. She says "yep"

I said you have a couple of mouse runs up there and two location where a bat may be able to enter

So a coue of bat cones and a couple mouse poison blocks on the trails
And I'm out of there with a fair price for both of us

What a scam he was trying on her I asked if she had the pictures and she said he claimed to of emailed them to her twice but she hasn't got them

I told her to call the BBB. And report him, she was P O ed As she should be

They give us all a bad name.

I'm not sure how some sleep at night.

I run into those types a couple times a year here. After a while, hearing a customers description of what they told her, I can tell who it was before she even tells us.

I also wondered how some of them could sleep at night, so years ago I came right out and asked. This person smiled at me, and said he slept just fine, he had a pillow full of money under his head. Thank God I can't live my life like that.

Holy cow Michigan! The only thing more annoying than a crooked competitor would have to be a reputable one who cannot type legibly. Is the attic heat getting to you? I know you yanks can't handle the heat. Did the thermometer skyrocket above 70 degrees on you. I know they don't sell thermometers which go past 80 up there. A waste of ink, they claim.
Seriously though, good things will come to you for your good deed. It is called Karma. The Karma for the other guy will be inverse in affect, but just as intense.

Sounds like a real winner there! A real shame!

Personally one of my favorite local examples include the lady who called when I
still occupied a govt desk, I think I was the only one in the office and they sent her over.

She said I had a dead pigeon on my sidewalk today and called a few companies for information
on this dead one and others on my roof.

She said the first company that responded said that the pigeon likely did of the plague (which of
course is a disease we have in NM in our wild mammal population). He states the other birds could be
carrying it to and she should sign up now to get this all resolved so her family would be safe!

Other examples have included the guano exaggerations where people didn't see anything or weren't shown
any photos but were told the attic was covered and in reality it had as you mention, a small accumulation isolated at one end maybe a coffee can full, but company X was going to use insurance and run the whole attic mitigation to keep the family safe from histo....

Last summer had one, local village animal control told the folks they should get an opinion from us on a bat issue that was said to be life threatening by company c.

Showed up, walked up to front steps, about 10 pellets of guano under a little porch corner. Nice night roost for a bat or two.

Elderly couple had their kids and grand kids coming to town and company c told them, the guano pellets if stepped on there on the porch would make them all sick and possibly kill them!

Honestly as a trusted friend and colleague would say, usually we don't get the first hand scoop, but most of these scenarios if it barks like a dog, it's a dog.

Sadly shady folks make money and take jobs, many as Albert said can sadly sleep just fine even if lying outright or taking money for unneeded work.

Happens in every industry, doesn't make it easier to see or hear!

Michigantrappin, what kind of ridge vent material was on the roof?
the other scare tactic I see around here is rabies in bats and skunks.
Had a customer tell me that another company told her that bats are so communal
That once The bats start spreading rabies in the colony that It
can become airborne in the attic. Lol

Kasey,

Just had a lady from CA who had a bat in their living room call after talking to several different health departments and doctors about vaccinations or not.

When talking with the health department in her county she mentioned she noticed while outside feeding the chickens that some bats were entering under
the soffit.

To which the doctor replied, "Are they vaccinated?"

The lady responded, "THE CHICKENS?"

The doctor, "Yes, are they?"

The lady decided she knew little about rabies, but she knew birds do not acquire or vector it and hung up....

This was literally a county health department official!

***

Rabies is by far the most commonly used scare tactic I hear utilized, I tell folks, you don't have to believe me over
the other guy, but I'll refer you to a rabies specialist with the CDC and you can decide who is telling you straight.

***

I just had a lady call the other day with a non disease case that was interesting.

She had rock squirrels in her backyard, didn't want them there, no real issue at the moment.

I told her I didn't offer any squirrel services generally but would discuss what she had going on and what her options
were.

During this she told me the local franchise had said they would charge her $75.00 to come look and determine what needs
to be done (no problem with this, common thing of course).

She then said, once they trapped the squirrels which would cost $X they would drive them "9 miles away" which I just found funny
in terms of the exact mileage number given.

She was then told they would have her sign a contract where they came back each month to verify she was squirrel free... $75.00 per month
in perpetuity.

Now to me this sounded like a pest control contract, versus a you've got squirrels and I'm trapping them program, but curious what others think
or if anyone does this with raccoon, squirrel, skunk where you charge on a contract every month to come look and say "yup, nothing here, see you
next month."

I get it for residential pest control with breeding speed and cycle of insects, commensal rodents, etc... Seemed a little out of place for larger mammals but
hey, who knows....

Actually, that's true, sorta. Rabies is know to be an airborne Virus and can spread quickly among cave bats, and among Skunks that share the same den.

BigBob, I know we discussed this whole National Trappers Association.

Please give a holler to the CDC and talk to their rabies guru. If rabies was truly an airborne virus
we would all be dead or running for our lives, would look worse than the walking dead!

I know it says it in the NTA handbook, but please don't take that as a scientific publication written
by medical professionals who have studied rabies since pre 1960.

The two cavers who contracted rabies way back when who were suggested to be possibly airborne,
CDC affirms they feel they were bitten as they were handling thousands of bats during their time in the
caves and doing research.

I literally called one of their head rabies doctors and discussed this whole airborne issue the last time you
posted it, he affirmed they have no basis for airborne rabies, though they have to list it due to those old time
cases where no one had the full story, but none of their massive professional doctor pool believed rabies is
transmitted by anything other than an actual bite, with infected saliva shedding from a late stage vector.

Bats spread rabies to each other via contact and bites, same as skunks and raccoon, fox and other non typical
vectors like bobcat and coyote.

That is the science on it, I know I won't convince you, but I want this stated here for the rest of those who may
find your statement.

No offense intended either, I just worry when we are quoting the NTA handbook as the gospel on rabies.

How many contractors (plumbers, electricians, pest control, wildlife control, handyman) have been in the crawlspace
or attic or location with skunks, bats, etc... without any breathing apparatus on and contracted rabies and died?

I'd like to see the case files, but know they do not exist. The two bat researcher/cavers are the only mention ever
about airborne rabies and modern CDC debunks this as complete myth based on knowledge these two gents were
molesting gobs of bats while working in the cave.

Further, I know a ton of cavers who practically live underground in some serious caves filled with bats all year, when
was the last case of a caver dying of airborne rabies as they don't wear masks unless ammonia is too high for breathing
properly from urine.

***

I suppose truly this is touchy subject just due to weekly getting phobic bat and other wildlife emails, calls and texts where
the reality of rabies is not at the forefront, but the myths and bad media are.

We need to be a helpful resource here and I know if you did take the time to call yourself to CDC and visit with any of their
rabies specialists, who work with rabies globally 24/7, you'd find the answers do not line up with the NTA.

Just my .02 but I guess all wildlife control operators and homeowners who are going to trap skunks or work with bats in attics
now had better find out what type of breathing apparatus is OSHA and CDC approved for preventing rabies and start making it
mandatory SOP...

If CDC isn't good enough, there are books and journal articles published in peer reviewed literature by professionals on rabies
that also do not support this.

I've raised litters of skunks, observed skunks in the field, and in crawlspaces, same with bats, even more so, contact rates of nose
to nose touching and yes nipping or chiding a neighbor are high and that is where transmission occurs.

Anyway, dead horse I realize, I did this whole bit a year or so back on another thread we shared, again, no offense, I just wish when
rabies comes up the NTA handbook (which I own as well) wasn't considered a source of scientific literature for the disease. It is flawed
in its suggestion of airborne rabies.

Best,

Justin

I remember that, and didn't mention the NTA Handbook this time because of our discussion.
I also read something from the Mo DNR that said the high incidence of Rabies in Skunks can/may be attributed to their practice of moving around, and sleeping in different dens most every night, with different animals.
I figure there's likely to be a fire, if you have a lot of smoke, and better to be safe, than sorry.

I just ran into this situation,... twice...this week , with 2 different competitors in my area...What a bunch of BS !

I guess respectfully I'd ask them what protocol would you utilize if you had to go into a crawlspace or send a technician in knowing there are multiple skunks in there denning or when entering an attic with thousands of bats?

Cave bats have massive contact rates as they (especially pups during maternity season) are literally packed in like sardines in a can.
Studies also show that juvenile bats of some species display antibodies on their system after being inoculated when nursing from an infected female.

If you've ever watched two skunks scrap or two or more raccoons, etc... Bites and saliva is a straight line of logic.

I know often the health Dept reports display a lack of awareness of wildlife vectors, behavior and biology. When interviewed many people will be regurgitating what they just read to be ready for questions not in their wheelhouse.

I would come back to the question are we to assume if skunks or bats or raccoon are in our attic or Crawlspace we are at risk of airborne rabies?

I realize we are in an era where info flows from all over, but often we must update our resources and confirm where they got their info and whether it has been since updated or improved upon.

I just dislike myths and hype and airborne rabies when we live in a country with lots of the vector species yet have 2 deaths on average per year (from bites) nothing is supportive of rabies floating around like a cold or flu virus. Rabies is so serious that folks already get so phobic even if they've never seen a vector species before. Having posts suggesting this is a real thing can be found and folks can get even more fearful.

Just my .02, I've tried anymore to have a live and let post view of forums, but this one is just too close for me, have worked with rabies on many projects, trained at the CDC and taught others how to take samples and practice proper PPE for rabies.

None of that was ever concerned with respirators or breathing apparatus.

Best,

Justin

HD thanks for the info, you would think rabies is around every corner the way homeowners freak out



On the local news a couple of weeks back, there was a report that a bat was found to have rabies , and I didn't see it on the news but had several people tell me that on the report it was said "if you have bats in your house you should get rabies treatment to be safe" I just rolled my eyes and said that is ridiculous but a couple people said that was how it was reported locally

If you find a bat in your home and are unable to catch it, Phillips say play it safe and assume you've been exposed to rabies, and get the vaccine. He says in humans it can take a year to show symptoms of the disease.

"Once you have the symptoms it's all over, but you'll never have the symptoms if you were bit and treated," he said.

found a archive from the local news channel ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

MITrappin - definitely a quagmire in this country. I answer a lot of questions about bats in the house or even just flying by outdoors.

Doctors of course only have one goal, living healthy patients. So I tell a lot of folks if you tell a doctor "I think a bat made this mark on me but I didn't see one."

They have to go with it as assuming they know better is foolish.

Last year I had a lady call who was camping with a group of adult friends.

While all were sitting around a campfire a large moth flew into her friends face.

Everyone saw it, the ladies husband, everyone, and there dead moths all over the campground of same size and color.

Despite all logic this lady hooked into the idea this was a bat and went to the ER with these small red marks from this large
moth hitting her in the face.

Said to the doctor I believe a bat flew into me.

He looked at her moth struck face and said "oh yes those look like bat scratches to me." And gave her shots!

I don't blame doctors who for liability reasons and wanting a live healthy patient err on the side of caution.

But in this country we give between 40 and 50,000 shots for post exposure each year and many of those do not involve any actual exposure. It's an interesting dilemma.

Fatal virus, but little true exposure to it for most people not chasing wildlife....

Phantom bite hypothesis is also a problem. People have been lead to believe bats can bite you without you being aware, that their teeth "seem" (the word used by doctors in hospitals who don't work with wildlife) small enough that you "may" not feel them.

I have to admit until I started reading case files and working with more bats in hand I somewhat wasn't sure.

But having now delved into the cases where people were bitten and folks claim no one must have felt it, the reality is the story is typically second hand as the person infected is too far along to speak, thus chalked up as "they must not have felt it."

When in reality many people I meet every year have tossed live bats outside or killed live bats in their cabin or summer home and didn't think twice about any bites as it was logical to them the animal would react defensively.

The last case was the elderly lady from WY. Folks again suggested this was a bite without knowing it from a silver haired bat.

Popular articles don't go in depth but if you read the CDC post mortem files you find she suffered from mild dimentia, they found the bat on her neck and in the morning but didn't see any bites, doesn't say the wife didn't feel any bites. In the end the story was 8 weeks old by the time she was in late stages and they realized it was rabies.. Sadly too late to react but not a phantom bite, a bat on someone who simply didn't report she was bitten for a variety of possible reasons. I've personally been bitten by the smallest myotis bat in the country and it is immediately a sensation you feel. Let alone silver haired and up through big brown and so forth...

Plan to fund a study at some point in the coming years to replicate bat skulls and subject patients in a trial to artificial but accurate bat bites and document the outcomes for all North American species.

Would help stop the crazy train!

In my service area Pallid bats often end up inside during summer more than most others. They are routinely killed and tested for rabies when no contact or bite existed, due to phantom bite belief.

Imagine a bat who kills scorpions and 8-10" long desert centipedes and even occasional small mammals, imagine those teeth and the bite force? Now imagine that bat is somehow supposedly biting you without you knowing it?

Bunk....

What I do get is testing bats when found around kids or adults with diminished capacity, it isn't about the bat being aggressive but about what kids and adults with those conditions would do or remember afterward and if they can give an accurate description of any interaction.

Logical safety measure, but killing and testing big brown bats, pallid bats and silver haired bats because you think their teeth are small suggests you've never seen one up close or know what they eat!

Anyway sorry for hijacking thread folks. Again a topic I love to hate I suppose...

Should have added many county health departments encourage people to catch the bat flying in their home and have it tested.

Many of them from first hand stories I have ended up with liability as they told people who had no true exposure....

"Hey, please run around and catch that potential rabies vector and bring it to us for testing!"

Many people are bitten trying to capture bats when they had no exposure at all previous to the attempt..

I have tools on my website to help people weed out bad actors.

I have tools on my website to help people weed out bad actors.
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