I was wondering if anyone is having trouble with the new Duke #2 square jaw 4 coil traps with missing coyotes and/or pull outs? Or am I just extremely unlucky with them?

I think your just unlucky. I have caught a fair amount of coyotes In my Duke #2s. Haven't had a pull out yet. I even took the second set of springs off them since they were to hard for me to set.

How many pull out and misted coyotes have you had.

Only 2 pull outs. I've caught 10 or 12, but for every caught, I've probably missed 2 or 3. I've never had this problem before. It just seems to be with these traps.

So when your saying missed does that mean the trap is sprung and just setting In the bed?

I'm on the fence about getting some of these traps. They look good but I keep hearing about the clean out not being big enough. This is only my second year of trapping and being on this site but I have figured out that some people, not talking about you mud/steel, on here are just plain full of beans. When they talk about issues with this trap I wonder how much trash/clumps of dirt they leave on there set or there pan tension. I wish I knew I want to get three or four dozen. I don't want to get a few and try them I want to get more traps in the ground on a limited budget.

My first year was 17 yotes, 2 skunks and 1 badger. Second year, this year, was 36 yotes, 2 skunks and 1 badger. Maybe I'm getting to greedy but I want a bigger line right now I only have 53 traps.

I use them and like them. Yes there is no debris gap between the jaws. Is This a problem? In my opinion no, I always sift my dirt as I'm covering my trap and bedding It so I'm not leaving anything at the set that may clog the trap.

Beav, how do they compare to the old Vic 2 sj high lever? That's what they remind me of.

New guys have so many choices these days, we grew up in simpler times haha.

Is there room to open up the debris gap?

The angle on the jaws Is much more acute then the old SJ vic. Good positive lock up on this new SJ Duke.

I asked Bill Duke about the reason they didn't incorporate a debris gap. And He said they thought It would weaken the jaw strength. Other traps have a debris gap so I'm not sure.
That's one reason I'm against offset jawed traps. A 1/4 Inch offset can turn In to a 1/2 offset pretty easy.

When I say 'missed' I mean they're sprung and laying outside the bed on the end of the chain.

Any fur In them? What kind of tracks If any? Some times critters will roll on a trap and then you have to think about deer. Lots of reasons for empty sprung traps.

This is the first year I've used them and they've been really good to me. Mine don't have the factor pans. I've got bigger pans which I really like. I had one pull out, which was due to frozen ground and my trap stalled, I'm sure.

I have 2 dozen. Great trap for the money. Mine have a debris space. Laminated them and added mid chain swivel. I would but another dozen offset, though my preference is for a be #2 dogless.

By the way, I also replaced the pans with # 3 bridgers

I've used them this year the ones that caught coyotes them traps are trashed now switched over to using them for bobcats only and have still had issues when the cat can get leverage they'll pull out

WE caught some 30+Lb coyotes In the study In #2 Dukes never had a problem with them being Trashed.
In fact I caught more then a few In them over the last 2 years and other then having to straighten a dog or 2 They are still preforming just fine.

I caught 7 coyotes with this trap and all I had to do was straighten out the dog every once in awhile

My issue with them being trashed is now there offset because the jaws have bent from the coyotes springs pop off with every coyote catch I have lost 7 cats this yr to them not performing well the cats were caught tore the whole set up and magically they git out no blood on the trap and the tracks in the snow don't lie I will be ridding myself of them and switching to all no BS

Wow every coyote and every cat. That's a run of bad luck for sure.

Beav....that’s the same guy that had trouble with #3 Montana traps last year. He might need a tank.. lol

Is it possible that some of these issue with traps getting destroyed by coyotes, stems from running long chains on their setups? All I use are Dukes and I run short chains and have Never had a trap trashed by a coyote (other than a bent dog)

No problem here

All I add to the chain is a double stake swivel all my traps have less then 18 inches of chain

i run three dozen regular duke #2s and a dozen # 3s. i love both. i bought a dozen of the new #2 square jaws. my old traps are preforming great as always. everything about the new dukes is very atractive. i have rechained them center swiveled tweeked the levers to get the jaws flat,night latched and 2.5 pounds pan tension. and they come up empty. i come from wyoming and now trapping south carolina is completley different. mule deer never mess with traps out there and have never had to deal with coons and possums and know i belly miss them. i thought the new four coil dukes would jump out the mud and get it done but i have had almost zero luck with them connecting.

I went with Derek Sunday to run his line. I'd been working and no traps of my own out. I saw 3 different sets cats had pulled out of. 4th cat was still there. It was on a drag made from a limb and the brush it was in allowed some give when it hit the end of the chain. All with the new #2 dukes. So mud and steel to answer your question your not the only one having problems. I saw several traps also 2 dukes that the jaws now have an 1/8th gap in the center.

I love how I state the the issue I have with this trap to answer the original poster question and it has turned into me getting bashed because I stated a bad review of the duke #2 and the Montana #3 all of you (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) internet trappers can kiss my (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)

Traps jumping out of the mud? If your setting In mud or having wet conditions that are causing mud It's not the traps fault that your not catching anything. Not many traps preform well In conditions that your relating to.

If conditions are that bad In SC go to some waxed dirt for bedding. I trapped SC for 15 years and Never had any issues with mud where I trapped. Most of the country I trapped was pretty sandy. But I did use some waxed dirt In Jan and Feb.

no issues with mud? we have had over three inches of rain in two days. and two more expected by morning. not sure what part of S.C. you trapped. and bring your waxed dirt... i thought this was a place to learn and share, you dweebs can have it.

Well that took a wrong turn didn't it?

It was a simple question concerning a trap, thank you guys for your input on that trap.I didn't ask how to trap or how you trap.

Well you and I both know In conditions like that you can't blame the trap for not making a catch.

I got a dozen. Put PIT pans on them. Used them 1 season. I'm in red clay gumbo in my area and the lack of a trash gap DID NOT WORK in this soil type.

Derek and Mud & Steel- I wonder if some of these guys aren't on the "pro-staff" for some manufacturers given how their 'reviews' are.

Those who are having problems with this trap are you using offset? I ask this because I don't think Beav use's offset and tennjed showed a picture of the trap with regular jaws and they don't seem to be having any problems. Derek what kind are you using?

Guys Guys It all about what you use for your bedding material. If your dealing with extreme conditions haul In a bedding material that will give you the upper hand. Then top dress the set with a light covering of native soil.
IT's not always the traps fault. And No I'm not a spokes person for Duke traps.

Adapt or go home.

If a trap isn't working properly bedded in dry dirt there is a problem. If a trap without an offset gets an 1/8th inch gap in the center of the jaw after a coyote catch there is a problem. If the 4 coil springs pop off with a coyote in the trap there is a problem. If cats and coyotes pull out half the time there is a problem.

Reg jaws no offset I guess I should change bedding materials for my duke #2 because sifted bone dry dirt from under a bridge won't work for them. I guess it's the dirt fault the jaws are bending and the springs are popping off

Or just use Bridger's at a similar price point or go all in and get KO's Jr's.

In fairness I've had coyotes dang near disassemble most brands. Springs off levers, spring pins pulled sideways, dogs trashed etc. Once the jaws lock up that stuff happens. My issue was getting them to close all the way. FYI I bed with peat INSIDE the jaws, then dry dirt over the top. I pack pretty tight, then top dress a very thin "natural" looking layer- no glove prints etc.

Beav- no slight intended. Just saying I can open any NAFA post by Boco and NAFA will be defended no matter what the topic, as an example. He has had great success with them and he says so. Other guys bash them in a second. I'm about 50-50, but I like hearing his side too.

Any post about fleshing knives and I'm screaming Lee Steinmeyer.

Other guys believe a trap is a tool and like buying at Harbor Freight vs Craftsman. Maybe they have dozens stolen each year. Maybe they sell every 2 years. Others are like Mark June- all 550's no matter what. BIG investment difference between Duke #2's and those 550's though.

I've been using a lot of 650's. Have some 20 year old bridger 3's that are working too. Bridgers got base plated and laminated then four coiled. (didn't come that way 20 years ago)

650's some of the pan tensioning/pivot screws will break after a few seasons of tension being adjusted. Not a big deal. The notch the pan sets in gets wore and needs refiled once in a while so trap stays set. Bought a used one the pan was wore enough I had to weld and then grind it so it would stay set. No major problems. Nothing lasts forever. Traps are fast and whatever steps on one is still there when you get there.

My old bridgers the original rivets didn't hold up very long. Replaced rivets and swivels with crunch proof and problem solved. Pan screw needs replaced once in a while. Pan notch cleaned up once in a while. Again just maintenance nothing lasts forever. Whatever steps on them is waiting for me.

Saw some No BS traps. Very nice. Wouldn't be a bit afraid to buy a slew of them.

No idea how many coons I've caught in duke 1 1/2's. In several states. Have some of the old style with the pan higher than the jaws and some with the level pan. Good trap worth the money.

After what I saw the other day I've no interest in duke #2's.

Bought some old style bridger 2's some years back that are off set. they are holding up to lots of use and hanging on to stuff till I get there as well.

Old long spring 3's, base plated and PIT pans added are a dandy trap too. I really like them when its too rocky to get a proper bed dug. Longsprings stabilize easily.

The Harbor Freight Duke comparison is spot on. Some of what Harbor Freight sell works well and some not so much. Bridger # 2-4 coiled would have cost about $37 dollars more than the Duke #2 and the 3 cats lost in one day would have paid for the difference with dollars left over. I hear the Duke 1.5 is a good coon trap and there 330 is a decent body grip I wouldn't know. If I am looking to save a few bucks I look at what Bridger has to offer and have been pleased with the quality and longevity of there traps. It's your money so spend it how you want but don't loose dollars to save dimes.

I run 90 percent ko k9 extremes and fully mod #3 bridgers I bought a couple dozen duke 2 to use for cats and high theft areas I wish now that I'd just invested that money into more no BS traps foresure

Remember those Vic 2s with the inside out jaws?
When coyotes showed up here they ate the jaws for lunch.
I replaced the jaws with 1.75 round jaws, they've been good traps ever since.

I'd be hacked about the damage on the new supposed coyote traps too.

Derek and Mud and Steel,
I wish I knew how to help you. I've had good luck with mine. I'm sorry to hear that you've not been as fortunate. I also understand that you were simply asking about traps. Somehow or another the topic ran off the road. If they're not working for you, then it's time for a change. You can't be putting steel in the ground that you're not comfortable with. Best of luck the rest of the season.

I'm in the "unhappy with the Duke #2 square jaw" camp

Second year using them, bought all of mine at the NTA convention in Kalamazoo in 2016. 2nd season using them along with my son's Bridger #2 dogless and my MB550s.

The Dukes are all going and more MBs are going to be purchased by me, my son likes the Bridgers best, he will buy more of them

Point is. Use what works best for you there are plenty of brands, styles, ect

Like every other product, people like something's aNd not others, some people get bad lots or good lots

Use what your confident with, promote what works for you and catch critters

As noted previously, bridgers/dogles s are my go to, but I haven't had the problems with the # 2 square jaw traps some of you have had after catching coyote,fox,cat or coon. I do modify them before using and perhaps that makes the difference. For the money i won't (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) and moan

Here is my experience with Duke #2 square jaw traps. I trap areas with a lot of grey fox. When I bought them I come contacted Mr. Duke about making them 2 coil. He said that would be fine and that they would hold coyotes without issue. We set them this season and had about 9 pull outs over about a 4 day period. It was crazy. We brought them home and 4 coiled them. Reset a few and had more pull outs. Total animals lost and educated was 12. I won't set them again and I am too honest to sell them to anyone else. I use other Duke traps without real issue, but I won't set another #2 sq jaw.

Well you boys have overwhelming convinced me to get rid of all my #2 Dukes and buy something else. I guess your never to old to learn.

But wait a minute. There are a few of us on here that have no problems with the #2 Duke. So does that make us exceptional over the top trappers that can take any trap and make them preform? Or are we just lucky?
Maybe I'll have to re think the selling of my traps. But I do plan on buying some Dogless traps just not sure what kind yet.
Have a good day guys.

No doubt about it Beav. Your the man.

Don't know about that. I just think I'm lucky.

Maybe Bill makes special order traps just for Me. LOL

Just can't see why I would continue to use a tool that doesn't perform as well as another for the same job. Just doesn't make sense if you can afford a better tool to not use the better tool


Never said they don't work, said they don't work as well that's just silly to keep using a tool that loses money for you

If anyone wants to know how THE BEAVE felt about the Duke #2 square jaw when it was first introduced

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads....nds#Post5497264

YES, he did get at least one directly from Mr Duke


#6153516 - Today at 10:22 AM Re: Duke #2 square jaw 4 coil traps [Re: Mud & Steel]
The Beav
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 12361
Loc: Wisconsin
Don't know about that. I just think I'm lucky.

Maybe Bill makes special order traps just for Me. LOL
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And for the purpose of full disclosure.....

I posted and believed when I bought my first 3 dozen at the 2016 convention and handled them and started using them that they were a very good trap, but time has changed my mind as the more time in the field has given me a side by side comparison to the other traps I use. And that includes my Duke #4 that I use on drags for coyotes as well as for drowner rigs for beaver. I really like the # 4 Dukes

And your point Is?

So I would like to address the term PULL OUTS.

If my trap Is sprung In the bed. I don't consider that a pull out.

If my trap Is set off and pulled out of the bed. I don't consider that a pull out.

Now If there Is a huge tear up and I can see that the animal has been held for awhile. Then I "may" consider that a pull out. That animal may have been TOE caught. Is that the traps fault?

I'm willing to bet that a well tuned coyote sized trap making a good pad catch Is going to hold the coyote.

I'm not pointing fingers but there are lots of factors that play a part when a animal gets away. And It's not always the traps fault. The trapper has to recognize his part In the big picture.

If anyone wants to ship their #2 Dukes to me. I'll gladly pay for the shipping.

Beav I saw it. Tracks, hair still between the jaws, set tore up, cat had pulled out. 3 different sets in one day. The traps Derek got, #2 duke, square jaw, factory 4 coil. Saw a couple in his vehicle bed with about an 1/8th inch gap between the jaws in the center. Derek told me coyotes did it and I believe him. All the coyotes he caught that day I went, were in his KO traps. Told me he switched all his cat sets to #2 dukes. They were not working on cats either though I didn't see where a cat had bent the jaws.

The problem is the trap. Not bedding or inability to read sign or trap cats. He put cat #25 on a stretcher Thursday in about 3 weeks of trapping them. I haven't talked to him since Thursday it may be more now. No record but a very respectable catch in my book.

Good solid trap but needs a lil work in one area. A lug style offset would really benefit these

I believe you Danny.
I just haven't had any of those problems. And I've caught and held quit a few coyotes In them.

WolfDog you need a debris gap before you start thinking about making the trap offset. Adding lugs to a trap with out a debris gap will even leave a bigger gap If It gets clogged up.

So those that are having problems with the Duke #2 square jaws what do you figure Is the problem?

Not enough trash clearance and the steel used is low grade, springs aren't music wire. I now a trapper that has lost 15 yotes in the last 2 seasons in Duke 3s full modified 4 coils. Saw the traps with my own eyes, short leg hair in the jaws.. Maybe we have super strain coyotes LOL..

He's lost 0 in MB 550os and KOs.

Beav’s first review said there was a good trash gap. Production ones I had did not have a gap at all. There was also some issue with the D rings not being welded. Maybe someone changed something in the manufacturing process.

I laminated mine so there was no likelihood of jaws flexing with a catch.

Pan sets too high which one would have to use more covering to have the low spot over the pan.Also can create more toe catches. Poor lock up unless over powered.My escapees resemble wolf dogs pics.Going by his pic one would think grey fox and above should be waiting. Poor designed trap and did it have any field testing before being released? Trapping time is limited and i have found it a waste of time to try to get them to work .

Ya In my original post On the trap. I mentioned the debris gap as being sufficient. But that Isn't the case since there Isn't one. I screwed up on that point.

I didn't spend any time fooling with Dereks traps to find their problem.

I was referring to a western style lug off set that's mainly there to have a gap for debirs. If you want a regular debirs gap it takes literally like 30sec with a $20 angle grinder.

Why, when there's traps that don't need all the extra work and cost to mod?

I took my Duke #2s right out of the box. Cleaned up the jaw edges with a file. Got them degreased took them down to my buddy and had them powder coated and went out and caught coyotes In them.
I will be totally honest with you I had One trap that was held open with a acorn sized rock and I missed a coyote because of It. Mostly my fault because I got In hurry remaking the set from a previous catch. But a debris gap may have remedied that.
And I NEVER had a catch circle with out a critter In the trap when I got there.

Sure I had traps sprung with no catch and no catch circle. But that happens no matter what traps we are using.

I just went out and looked at all my #2 Dukes that caught coyotes and couldn't find any jaw deformities. And I did catch more then 20 In the 2 doz I have. I also set a few and laid a file across the top of the pan. The file touched on both jaw posts and touched the pan also.
Yes It would be better If the pan was below the jaws but It's even so I don't see that as being a big problem. Since the same amount of dirt would covering the pan and the jaws. Well I guess that would depend on how you cover your traps.

Then I set and sprung one of those traps 5 times On 3/4" steel pipe. The jaws didn't spread apart and leave any gap when fully closed. I know It's not the same when dealing with ticked off coyote.

When I start having problems with those traps I will be the first one to get up on my soap box and let you know.
But so far I'm happy with the results.
I'm not doubting what some are saying It just hasn't happened to me.

Just because some can ... lol .

It’s carry over from my work/ job. Improvement and faster = money.

Understood, I did the same for years. Got tired of losses and retuning every season. Now 0 lost coyotes and I sleep much better. Efficiency is the name of the game.

Like I said I set them pretty much just like they came out of the box. Can't get any simpler then that.

Those of you that aren’t satisfied with your Duke #2 square jaws, I’m curious if they’re for sale?? I’m in the market to buy a few more. Please PM me. Thanks

It would have been impossible to use mine out of the box. Came out of the box with a very high pan, jaws didn't sit level, had to crimp and file the dog, had greater than 4 lbs of pan tension, and had to clean up the jaws with a file. After spending several hours tuning, dying, and setting traps, it's pretty frustrating to have them not hold as they should. Oh yeah, I also had a d ring failure. Almost forgot about that.

Also just making sure, we are talking about the Duke sq jaw #2 traps. The reg #2's haven't had the same issues.

Yes my problems we're with the sq jawed #2 dukes

If any of you have work sharp knife sharpener,they are great for smothing out those sharp trap jaws.

If I’m not mistaken the #4 square jaw and their dogproof are also now made in China, though they started out made in Korea, which is where all the rest are made at this point. Anyway last I checked it was so.

More then just Duke traps made In China.

Not sure what happened there,trappergbus.I haven't come close to losing a coyote in a 2 coiled,Duke 3,or anything else for that matter.Mine are only about 3 years old and I understand they beefed them up so maybe we are comparing new to old.I'm not pushing them but they have worked for me.I'm a fan of the 550 too.

I can’t understand anyone having pull outs with any traps made this day and age ( coyote traps) . I have never lost a coyote out of any of my traps. Bunch of coyotes in #3 Dukes. I understand toe caught ..might pull out.

I have #3 Dukes, Victor round and square jaws , Sleepy Creek #4 Vic/ Montgomery, KB 5.5 , Jakes.
I have used MB 550, 650 and #3 Bridger in the past with no problems.

Why don't you offer Derek 80 a doz plus shipping for his square jaw 2 dukes? I bet he takes it.

I despise the hexagon shaped jaws of any brand ...

Only had 3- #3 Bridger I got in a trade ..

Not sure what happened there,trappergbus.I haven't come close to losing a coyote in a 2 coiled,Duke 3,or anything else for that matter.Mine are only about 3 years old and I understand they beefed them up so maybe we are comparing new to old.I'm not pushing them but they have worked for me.I'm a fan of the 550 too. [/quote]

I can’t understand anyone having pull outs with any traps made this day and age ( coyote traps) . I have never lost a coyote out of any of my traps. Bunch of coyotes in #3 Dukes. I understand toe caught ..might pull out. [/quote]

How many coyotes have you trapped? Roughly?

100’s Derek

I did lose a cat out of a #3 Duke rubber jaw trap 4 or 5 years ago..more my fault then the traps.
Caught that cat two years later...

Please tell me how you know it was the same cat? If you've caught 100s of coyotes and haven't had a pull you are the best coyote trapper ever or your a lier just sayin

I’ M NO LIAR ...most coyote trappers don’t have pullouts. Not many anyway. I’m sure I have missed some..but that’s not a pull out. If coyotes here are worth anything I would’ve caught more. By far not the best coyote trapper .

Reason I know it was the same cat ... by his toes on the right foot.
Surely you can figure that out ..

I have never seen traps like you showed in pictures of #3 Montana’s .. that bad of shape.

I hope you get traps that work for you !!!

How do know the cat wasn't caught the first time by his left foot?

Your saying since most coyote trappers don't have many pullouts then your putting your self higher then most coyote trappers since you've had no pullouts ?

How much do you charge for trapping instruction?

I answered all your questions in my last post.

But the cost of instructions...I would never give instructions. Lol

Derek don’t get all bent shape because you’re having troubles with some traps ..
Thinking you have figured out now.. have a good night.

I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes, the fellow thought he was orienting the trap wrong, I said huh, no way to dictate that. Like I said we must have super strain coyotes. they are full mod 4 coils. His are the square jawed #4s

I'd put my money on the traps that made in China not performing well not super strain coyotes

"His are the square jawed #4s"
"3s full modified 4 coils."

Bus, 3s or 4s? I do not have much confidence in the large SQs I have, they are American made but do have some age and newer springs.

Do you have any Montana's or Bridgers?

The Montana's are made In China. And Unless something has changed since MB has bought out Bridger they were made In china.

Both traps are of good quality.

No montanas ridded myself of them. They were made of poor metal just the duke sq jaw #2 I have the jaws bent after coyote catches. I have 10 #3 bridgers that have not had any issues but there also 10 yrs old and haven't been used in 5 yrs

My old 3 bridgers been used every year since I bought them in MN at a NTA convention. Not the last one in MN the one before that. Whatever year that was. I replaced the springs with music wire after a while. I 4 coiled base plated and laminated them. Been good traps. Heres a picture from about a month ago still doing what they are supposed to do.

They are the #4 square jaws offsets, lamed with 3/16th round lams, base plated, 4 coiled 8 inches of chain with a mid chain crunch proof to the anchor point. There wasn't much of a catch circle on the one I witnessed. My theory is the trap didn't lock up fast enough or not enough trash clearence. May be wrong, real head scratcher. The ones he held were buried in it.

Deer give traps a bad wrap, not saying that's what happened there.

Couple weeks ago I set some smoking hot sign, waited, waited, finally walked down to sprung sets. I Was about to bark. I back tracked to the high bank at road crossing, sure enough, deer tracks. I'll get on those buggers next time.