Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6294991
08/05/18 02:04 PM
08/05/18 02:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,851 St. Cloud, MN
trapperkeck
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2F powder has coarser granules of powder vs 3F. Both are black powder. 3F is commonly used in pistols because it burns faster than 2F. 3F is also used to prime the flash pan on flintlock muzzleloaders. Black powder characteristics are much less stable than the black powder substitutes. In other words, it is much more likely to go off when a spark is applied. It is also much dirtier to shoot, but performs much better in traditional muzzleloaders because it is less affected by temperature variations, etc, IMO. There is also 4F black powder that is very fine and used, strictly, for priming on flintlocks.
Last edited by trapperkeck; 08/05/18 02:07 PM.
"The voice of reason!"
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295015
08/05/18 02:46 PM
08/05/18 02:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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Lift powder and flash powder are pyrotechnics, to lift the shell and to burst the shell. kinda, I'm not a pyro. The FA designation vs FG is if memory serves unglazed powder = FA & glazed gun powder = FG; the 2 or 3 or 4 is the size particles that passed through a certain size screen. In general 2FG is for rifles over .45 cal and 3FG is for small bore rifles and pistols 4 FG is for primer in flint lock shooting. The 2FA lift powder listed in the red gum kit doesn't readily translate to shooting use for me, although there are many that know and understand it better than I.
Last edited by tjm; 08/05/18 02:58 PM.
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295137
08/05/18 05:29 PM
08/05/18 05:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,624 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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I am not sure about this kits details FA and FG FG is measured in Fg , FFg , FFFg, FFFFg when measuring it passes one screen but stops on the smaller meaning you get a very consistent size grannual FA as I understand it is measured with different screens and includes what passes so you have a much wider range of grannaul size including a lot of fines. I started asking some what similat questions about black powder a few years ago that some of you may have, here you can see the education on it I got. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?208326-Ffg-fffg-ffffg-vs-ffa-fffa-ffffaif your wondering what I ended up doing , bulk 25 pound bag of Shutzen 3fg at 12 dollars a pound this spring the current price. at the time I had asked these questions I had just bought up enough of the old elephant old stock to get by for a while back when I was asking questions about this and I collected up enough powder canisters to house all the new powder for the bulk 25 pound purchase. we go through about 5-6 pounds a year with the 4-H and some running a training clinic so it will last a few years if you have a few friends buying 25 pounds at a time is the most cost effective way , but it comes in a cotton sack in a plastic bag. most of our target work is 30 gr loads and some up to 60 gr for targets out around 100 yards. so it comes to between 5 and 10 cents a load for powder , patches are running about 1.5 cents and I cast the round balls from lead we got donated form a local excavator who removed some lead water pipe a few years back.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295174
08/05/18 06:24 PM
08/05/18 06:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,624 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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TJM , he didn't have any 5FA at that time.
I also came to the conclusion that if I bought the FG the the 4-H manual specifies as the correct powder for Muzzle loading arms there could be no complaint. but if I experimented with 5FA which is not listed in the manual as correct then I was taking on undue liability. since 80% of the powder is used for 4-H I just stayed with FG running mostly 3FG as it burns better for light target loads.\
it just didn't pay price wise for me to experiment with FA powders.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295221
08/05/18 07:23 PM
08/05/18 07:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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From what I have researched BP isn't terribly complicated to make oneself. But a few minor details separate the best from mediocre and poor performers...
The wood used to produce the charcoal... Alder Buckthorn is supposedly the wood that Swiss brand powder uses to make their charcoal
Amount of time the ingredients are milled in the ball mill... The finer the ingredients are, the better the performance of the powder.
I've given serious consideration to trying to make a batch of my own powder... The ball mill, sifting screens, sulphur and saltpeter are all commercially available...
The alder for the charcoal is the problem. It isn't native to the U.S. but it is here. Just not in my area of the country... But it is considered an invasive species in Minnesota.
Anybody up there got it on their property? Lol
Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295224
08/05/18 07:25 PM
08/05/18 07:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,894 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
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"Grumpy Old Man"
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I thought willow made good bp charcoal?
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295229
08/05/18 07:30 PM
08/05/18 07:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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I thought willow made good bp charcoal? Pretty sure willow and paulownia make good charcoal, but alder buckthorn is the Rolls-Royce I guess. Plenty of willow around. I might try it just for a starter batch. Danny do you want any if I manage to make it work? Lol Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295235
08/05/18 07:43 PM
08/05/18 07:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,894 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
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"Grumpy Old Man"
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I think its illegal to mail. might drive down with a couple guns to help test it though
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: trapperkeck]
#6295239
08/05/18 07:49 PM
08/05/18 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,011 MD
DaveP
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At this point, DaveP is thinking..... WTH? LOL No, I was thinking, folks are typing but most are not addressing my question. I KNOW about the differnt granulations, I have been shooting BP rifles, pistols, and cannons for 35 years. Was wondering how this compared to 2F. Doubt it would be consistent enough for my needs. Still shooting Goex and not likly to run out. Just curious.
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295240
08/05/18 07:49 PM
08/05/18 07:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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Pretty sure FedEx will ship it, but the Hazmat fee would probably pay for the gas to deliver it oneself.
And I know for sure that I can't sell it to anyone... So we would just have to burn it up with an afternoon of shooting. Lol
Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295248
08/05/18 08:05 PM
08/05/18 08:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,624 Green County Wisconsin
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Detailed instructions on making your own BP http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powderyes fed ex will ship and if you buy 25 pounds it only adds a touch over 3 dollars to a pound if you order in 25 pound lots. Dave , the difference between lift BP called FA black powder is how the grains are screened and that it is not glazed , so less even grains with mixed fines and not glazed they both go boom but you have greater consistency with FG but on a fire work it just doesn't need to be as precise as in a rifle you can figure out where your lot shoots then the next lot may shoot different.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295257
08/05/18 08:18 PM
08/05/18 08:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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When I was working in Illinois I was coming home one weekend and made a detour and stopped at Graf's in Mexico, MO.
I bought several pounds of powder, including a pound of their house brand powder in 3f... I'm pretty sure it's made by Wano with a Graf's label on it. It was only $15 or so a pound.
I haven't opened it yet because I'm still chipping away at a can of Goex.
Anybody tried it? If so, did you like the performance for the price?
Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: need cheap black powder?
[Re: danny clifton]
#6295267
08/05/18 08:40 PM
08/05/18 08:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,624 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Green County Wisconsin
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Wano is made by Schuetzen which is good stuff
if it is in a plastic bottle it is most likely Wano/Schuetzen
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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