I have no experience with cable restraints. What I hear is they are a POOR excuse for snares.

Though not approved where cable restraints are required, it is possible to combine a snare with a safety cable to use smaller loop cable AND get a swivel against animal neck. Just make and set a SHORT small cable snare as usual but run that loop cable through one eye of an inline swivel. Loop cable can be as small or large diameter as desired. To the other eye of inline swivel attach a stronger chew-resistant safety cable. Tie off the safety cable securely. Swivel cannot operate with two tied cables, so tie off loop cable with something the animal can break or pull loose, such as 24 gauge floral wire.

The safety cable requires more work to set the snare but you gain a swivel by animal neck where it is virtually foul proof and you have the option to use small loop cable such as 1/16 or 3/64 1x19 Korean which is rated at 400 lbs breaking strength.

Small cable may cut a coon and therefore may never be approved where cable restraints are required.

A snare lock that will not slip back is necessary but is generally non-lethal because tightness of loop is controlled by the low strength of loop cable tie off.

I'm usually very good at visualizing something like this, and I think I followed you up to the 4th paragraph, and the 5th one has me completely lost. I'd like to help if you can explain it a little more.

4th.Configuration is excellent for coyote. When used with small cable it would be inappropriate for coon. Hence some jurisdictions might not approve it.

5th. After loop cable breaks animal's pulling force is on the loop itself, not on the end of loop cable. Therefore snare loop tightening ceases, and animal pulling against safety cable does not further tighten the loop. On a conventional snare the lock slides in a direction to CLOSE the loop. When pull is applied on the loop itself force against lock is then in a direction to OPEN the loop. Lock has to hold in that situation.

Regarding loop cable breakaway, ideally a break point of about 20 pounds would be built into the loop cable about a foot before its end so only a very short trailing end would be left to possibly interfere with the swivel, and weak tie off would not be necessary. Unfortunately, it is hard to put a break point in cable and still have enough stiffness to hold loop shape.

To understand the configuration, just make a snare with a safety cable connected via a double swivel in the snare loop.

I have considered but not used that design to LIVE snare coyote with 3/64 (Korean 1x19) cable and still preclude chew outs. An animal cannot chew the portion of cable that is around his neck. If he is caught around the body and succeeds in chewing through that portion of loop cable he goes free with nothing on him. If he chews on trailing end of loop cable there are no consequences.

You lost me

I thought snaring was a good example of the KISS principle until I looked at the above.

Seems like more trouble than it would be worth. 1x19 3/32 ,cable with an 8-0 barrel swivel will hold any coyote without the added mess. Stop set so the loop doesn't close smaller than 4 inches.

It is. But many Western trappers prefer smaller loop cable for its lower visibility/less camo need.



It is unless you want the foul resistant swivel or the lower loop visibility.

Newt, it isn't expected to make conventional rigs obsolete.

I think I see what you are talking about, but I don't see the advantage over what Aix described. " Also, is the end result any different than simply using an extension, inline swivel, and smaller diameter cable snare that has only as much snare cable as needed to form the loop? "

Like so with the loop being the lighter cable you like, just long enough to form you desired loop size, and cable below the in-line swivel being heavier stuff for chew resistance...

I can kinda see the attraction of being able to put the swivel right against the animal as even with the shortest cable you can make you can still have 6-10" of free cable between the animal and an inline swivel on a raccoon.

Not sure if I'd want to try any set up a long line of these. Maybe for doing some scientific studies where you want to capture some animals without damage.

The way I build mine you can't put the barrel swivel any closer. When the loop is open the swivel is against the lock.

After zooming in on the picture, I see what you mean on the swivel. I'm glad we don't have stupid laws like that. I like simple lol

The swivel is a connector on a different cable (the safety cable) compared to a conventional snare. When the loop closes the swivel is then at animal neck. That should elevate (oops, make that alleviate) the probation of setting in entanglement situations. A 12" loop uses 37.6" of cable, meaning after loop closure an inline swivel as ADC pictured will be about 2 feet from animal neck thus allowing the animal to chew on LOOP cable.

As indicated before, the small cable (if used) is what is around animal neck, and would likely cut a coon, but not a coyote or bobcat.

If safety cable is angled downward as pictured below it will fall freely with its weight as a positive influence on loop closure. Weight of the whole thing is supported by vinyl whammy on loop cable and support wire, so it closes like any other snare.



Note loop cable tie off to support wire. 16ga tie wire so it can be seen in picture.


Closed loop.

I tested it briefly last Fall except instead of tying off the loop cable I just ran it through whammy thinking that would hold it enough to close the loop. It did not. I theorized moving animals were causing more of a jerk than a smooth pull on the loop cable thus causing it to slip out of the whammy.

I see you mention small cable cutting raccoon. How small of cable? I've caught ALOT of coon with 1x19 1/16 cable and have never seen cutting.

AIX, although originally from Arkansas I worked several years in Louisiana (New Orleans west bank and offshore oil fields) and am an alumnus of LSU Baton Rouge.

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Yes. Unfortunately 2 trapping seasons went by between the time I wrote that article and the time it was published. I had made many refinements. I eventually abandoned that concept after I learned that coyote seldom continue forward movement after a snare falls on them as I had assumed. A more common action is to stop, turn around, and try to shake the snare off. The above rig accomplishes a similar result and is easier to use but requires cable around animal neck strong enough to restrain him.

In this area coyote are at their best between about November 10 and December 10. After daytime temperatures cool off I can use spring-assisted lethal snares with check intervals of up to 72 hours. While daytime temps are high coyote need to be kept alive. Foothold traps are OK but I like options. I am not a fan of 3/32 or larger cable in the catch loop, and 5/64 1x19 is stiffer than I prefer.

Idaho snare regulations are reasonable but we all have to think of trappers in other states and about the future, though at age 86 I don't expect to be trapping much longer.

Ok, it all makes sense now. I can't believe I couldn't picture it.

I can see the merit of it, but most CR states require a larger cable, so you're best bet is to use 1x19 3/32 cable for the whole rig, loop and all for maximum chew resistance. However if you're not in CR state and it's legal to do so I could see less refusals with this set up. Personally I'd use a real metal wammy and support the loop behind the lock with #9 wire. The wammy holds solid until the lock is closed.

Aix wouldn't know he prefers junk cone shaped support collars. LOL

AirportTrapper, I have not targeted coon in the last 15 years. When I did I saw a few cut with 5/64 7x7, and saw one cut badly with 3/64 7x7 cable set for bobcat.

ADC, thanks for your input. I do support the snare with whammy behind the lock. With conventional snares the loop closes enough as it falls that vinyl whammies are OK with me. The animal will pull and tighten the loop. In the above rig the loop also closes as the loop falls, but a little tighter closure is desirable before loop cable breaks and thus terminates closing action. If a metal whammy would hold the small cable tight enough that cable would not have to be tied off.

The rig cannot be used in any CR states until someone likes it well enough to submit for approval. It is not currently a KISS method, but it has merits other than small cable, and indeed can be made with large cable throughout provided that a break point or weak tie off is included.

Now I see what your do'n

He is tethering the tag end with something that pulls it tight then breaks away

Its a neat concept. I wouldn't mind seeing it in person.

7x7 is bad about cutting. It's like a saw on live animals.

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Keep in mid that it is a live catch system; there is nothing to cause animal fighting to further tighten the loop. If an animal wraps up in brush and is suspended with his feet off the ground he may expire, but not from additional loop closing.

A weakened break point in the loop cable would be cool and would result in a shorter trailing tag end. But it would need to slide smoothly through the lock and
hold its stiffness. I have tried to make by hand such break point but have not been successful. Cable manufacturers probably could make the break point but I doubt they would be interested. It might appear all but center strand could be cut, then wrap the joint with thin tape. A camlock that will hold when pulled in an opening direction does not have enough space for the tape or for uneven cut cable ends.

Very ingenious idea, Furvor! I'm just wondering about the the safety cable being so taut (as in the picture) that it might interfere with the lock closing quick enough. In other words, instead you would leave just enough slack in the safety cable to not interfere with the lock's initial closing but not so much that the loop would completely close around the neck before breaking away.

From the photo, I'm not seeing how the safety cable "will fall freely with its weight as a positive influence on loop closure." It looks like it might have the opposite effect of interfering with the lock closing fast enough. Or have I misunderstood how this works?

There is slack. Safety cable must have a bit of extra length. Safety cable falls when the loop falls because the rig is hung via whammy on loop cable. It is fairly stiff, so if it is left to extend horizontally at lock level a hinge joint (such as twin loops or another swivel) is needed. I used 5/64 1x19 cable because that is what I had. 7/64th or 1/8th 1x19 would be more durable.

My grandfather was not that old. Even so, he said when he was young a man would work sun up to sun down for (a quarter or dollar, I forget) a day. He also said that at that time one dollar would buy more groceries than one man could carry. currency depreciation which we call inflation.

Thanks for the clarification. It's a cool setup...


Yep, and ten dollars a pound for pretty much anything back then was a lot of money.

To anyone who makes one of these rigs, please post your opinion as to its pros and cons and mention any design variations you may have made.

Just built one. Uploading video to YouTube

Thanks AirportTrapper. I see that you used a slim lock. That's OK for experimenting. A snared animal will be pulling from inside the loop against a different cable. That means force against the lock will be in the direction to open the loop rather than to close it (as with a normal snare). Some years back I tested locks on bare open ended cable to see if they would hold my weight. I found none that did, so I made my own. I just made the camlock hat wider, put a slot in the middle of it, and positioned the cam so it would push cable slightly into the slot. Those locks worked but were prone to catching water and freezing. Since then some camlocks have been improved enough that slotted locks are no longer needed. My current preference is Bridger Sure-Hold camlocks from MTP. I suspect some DakotaLine locks and maybe others would also hold in what I call a reverse pull application. I may not have tested slim locks

After you play for awhile with your creation please let us know what you think about it.

All I had left for small cable. I am not a fan of the slims in any size. I love the 3/32 BMI minilock on 1/16 . No entanglement or kill spring and from nutria to coyote still DOA

*

Furvor are the S hooks at your swivel rated BADs?

My initial thoughts, I wish I could look back at the thread that was here a year or three ago and see what was said then that might still relate, but..

OK, first, I never want a live coon in a trap period. Cages for ADC only.

I only want live snared canines for the live market, so fur damage isn't a large concern but I can see that entanglement of a live animal and the resulting struggle could cause damage; it's a consideration.

Non-entanglement is a key element in most CR regulations, my belief is that when entanglement is allowed (if ever) lethal snaring will be too.

Do most CR states allow camlocks?

Have these found acceptance in western snaring circles? or are they generally non-lethal in your actual use of them?

Having owned a few dogs that wouldn't stay tied, my thoughts are that the loop will be loose enough that pulling from the inside will allow the collar to slip over the ears whereas pulling from the end will cause continued tightening until the animal quits pulling, resulting in a tighter fitting loop.

Cam locks are rated as kill locks here, doesn't matter how they are setup. I do agree that the swivel should be as close to the cabled animal as possible or the swivel is a mute point.

Anything new would require state approval before it could be used in CR states. In the above setup an animal cannot pull the loop chokingly tight, but a deer stop could be used to release a deer leg. If that setup finds use in states where legal some CR states may adopt it.

In a reverse-pull setup there is nothing to re-tighten the loop after a relaxing lock backs off. Such lock would prolly slip off the end of bare cable if the animal did not get out of the loop before that happened.

Most states with CR laws. state that you must use 3/32' or 1/8" cable.

I won't mess with them anymore, with Michigans stupid laws you're pretty much aloud to set them in the middle of a field and hope

Ttt

Anyone got any updates on this ?

I caught 2 coyotes the other day In my CRs One was still there the other one popped the BAD. It's back to that BAD that Isn't compatible to 1X19 X 3/32 cable. The next CRs I buy are going to have the J hook BADs

And yes the swivel needs to be as close to the lock as possible.

A good snare in Wis. would be a lock that does not relax. Why should you care about a fox or coyote?.

WE don't care about coyotes and foxes It's the hunting dogs that we care about. You will NEVER see a lethal snare In WI. So live with It.

OK tell me why Montana and Idaho have no problems.

Look at the land mass and the population.
We have 1000s of coon hunters we have 1000s of hound hunters we also have 1000s of up land game bird hunters not to mention all the water fowl hunters. And they are all out there during our trapping season Oh wait what about all the non hunting type dogs that are also out there.

Yep. It’s a shame. That in Alabama You can’t even use a fence snare when YOU own 5000 acre high fence for deer. Makes the outlaw feel OK hanging a snare under these conditions. To protect a deer worth 10000

Free roaming dogs probably don't last too long in those states.

The hunters with dog better watch out out for wolves!!!

Is there a correlation between states with CR requirements and public land?

For example, Texas is mostly private and you can use either
If I put a snare out to catch a coyote and your free ranging dog gets caught then the fault lies with you.
If I put out a snare to catch your free ranging dog the fault lies with me

I could see where trapping on public land could be an issue with other users having dogs with them

Being a former houndman, as well as a trapper, to me it's just common sense where dogs may be encountered to use free hanging snares. And that is anywhere that dogs are legally used for hunting. As far as snares go, free hanging snares are generally fairly safe with dogs that are used to being chained or on a leash, but ram power snares are unforgiving. Even with a coil kill spring with the snare most chain/leash broke dogs will not fight hard enough to choke down in my experienced, over a day or two thus giving the handle a good chance to locate them alive.

You can use real snares in Iowa. We have coon hunters, hound hunters, and bird hunters. All our road ditches are public property and there's quite a bit of public land besides that. We are also governed by republicans, not democrats. Most anti-trapping regulations come from the latter side of the isle.

This right here. As a houndman I can attest to the fact that I have had multiple dogs caught in snares and all were fine. Especially with all the tracking collars worn on hounds today, plus they are usually chain broke, chances are they will be perfectly fine in a normal snare. In a power ram, not so much. And there are issues in Idaho and Montana between trappers using snares and houndmen. Frankly the wolves being introduced did wonders for the trapper/houndman relations. The houndhunters want the wolves gone so rather than fight with the trappers, they support them. To the extent of even supporting tools like snares.

Use a little common sense with where you set your snares, and what type. You're not going to avoid all the houndmen, particularly if you are trying to trap the same animals they are trying to hunt (bobcat, coon, etc.) but you can avoid almost all the college kids and granola eaters out taking Fido for a walk. And if you use free hanging snares without kill springs, instead of power rams in any place where there is any possibility of encountering hounds, bird dogs, etc. You will avoid a lot of issues.

Guss, owners get compensated for injury or death of a dog involving a confirmed wolf attach in Wisconsin.

I know that the DNR SPENDING ALOT OF MONEY.

Like I said WI will never allow a lethel type snare In WI. so The CR is just another tool and If used right will catch all the coyotes you can skin.
Yes I would rather have a dead coyote In a snare and yes we are limited to where we can hang them. But you just have to learn to play the cards you were dealt.
It was 2 years ago when coyotes had some value and I caught 38 coyotes In CRs about 37 more then I wanted. LOL

This year I'm just doing some friends a favor and hanging a few CRs for coyote control.

I never use them to trap with I would think since the LOCK relaxes the animal can back out of the CR..

I can't say I've never had one back out. But It's probably pretty rare.

They can back out if they feel the snare and stop before the snare "fires".


Once an animal pulls tight on a snare it's not getting back out. Occasionally a coon or beaver might be able to throw a snare off but I've never seen it. Usually if they've fought the snare at all a kink forms within a quarter inch of the lock

Worse thing that will happen for you with a CR is you get water headed coyotes.

Thanks I might try some CR