.

I don't know what too say, you've summed up my thoughts on it pretty well!
All aspecs of christianity is falling to worldly interpolation!
Perilous times ahead brother sounds like you know!
Colt

Boys have been preping the fishing gear all morning. It's time to go fishing I think!


But il! Tell ya something off the cuff with the intention of revisiting this later.


As a Christian voting for our elected officials I would prefer to have a Christian in which I would vote for. But may not always vote for the Christian canadate simply because they may not be best for the job at hand. Great example would be Trump. Lots of Christians did not vote for trump because of his playboy past. Personally I feel as if those Christians lost out on all the eternal rewards to be had by Trump's election because of their self riteousness. We may very well end abortion! We have most definitely salvaged our religious freedoms for the time being and put a halt on the ever growing animosity toward Christians.

But as a Christian I feel our elected leaders within the church should be held to the highest of standards. This is where it is appropriate to whip out the self riteousness judgement card!!!!!!! It's how you keep the wolves and false doctrine out!

All you have to do is find that Catholic priest sex abuse thread to see this! Without getting into a debate about how Catholicism is a cult. I will just tell you that a lack of standards is how you get a "lavender mafia" within your ranks!

In short:. You hold your church officials to the highest of standards. If you have nobody riteous enough for position? Then don't fill it!

live on the ny/pa border.300 preacher pedophiles if i go north and at least that many if i go south.

something needs to happen and we should fear the one who will make the changes.not those under him that will be judged like you and i.

Saw where the Pope put out a statement about how sorry they are about the 300.
BIG 'OL B.S.!!

iIf he is so worried about it, why did they hide the files for 50 years???

AGAIN...B.S.!

Sorry if the Biblical posts rub us wrong here at the moment, but the scandle that's going on right now set some fires.

I'll refrain from opening these for awhile.

Here is my take on your passage, my interpretation of it (in light of the totality of Scripture), and the function of the office.

In Acts the Hellenistic Jewish older woman were being ignored in the daily ministration, i.e. the physical distribution of material necessities. The apostles said it was more important that they remained committed to prayer and preaching, than the distribution, so they had the people find 7 men to do these duties. In essence, the apostles worked on the spiritual things, and the 7 were to minister to the physical needs.

Come to Paul's instruction to Timothy and apply those principles. The pastor/elder/bishop's main duty to "feed and oversee" the flock- the spiritual needs. The deacons are to take care of the physical, so that the pastor/elder/bishop is not distracted from his main duty.

Too often today, the office of deacon has become a "rank" instead of a "service" and thus, it's more about prestige and ego than it is about meeting people's physical needs.

So, how do we interpret Paul's qualifications? I do it in the light of what I think the office's duties require:

Can it be a woman? IMO, No, based upon the clear letter of the law "husband", and also due to the headship that is required of men all through the Scriptures. (And NO, subjection is not a bad thing- we all do it every day without even thinking about it....)

Can he drink? Well the terminology is different for Deacon than of Pastor, however in light of meeting physical needs, he had better be sober and vigilant at ANY time he may be called upon to fulfill his duties.

Can he be divorced? Well, in cases where he may have to counsel or intervene in someone else's marriage, he better have his own house in order. Also, why Deacon's wives have requirements. (Ever hear of a Deacon being interviewed, but his wife never is? Same passage gives qualifications for his wife).

In 1 Peter 1, Peter lists things we all are to supply to our faith, and the first is virtue. Virtue is moral excellence. In my estimation and understanding, the qualifications of a pastor are the characteristics of a godly, Christ like individual. Your pastor should be the greatest example in your church of what walking, talking and living as Christ did, should be. Right behind that, the Deacons.

Moral excellence. Think on that for a bit.

I was a Deacon for a time. Very humbling, very moving, very educational experience. I left because our church got more interested in entertaining goats than feeding sheep, and I couldn't stand to see the sheep suffer.

A deacon must be a man, says so right in the plain text. A deacon can drink, but must not be drunk. If a deacon has been divorced and is remarried, that makes him the husband of two wives. Also, deacons and elders are two completely separate jobs. Deacons serve, helping with the physical needs of the church. Elders help with the spiritual needs. As far as the drinking thing is concerned, my understanding is that when the bible says wine, it means wine. There is some evidence that getting at least tipsy is okay, in certain contexts. Tipsy at a wedding/celebration? Sure. At your kids soccer game or out with co-workers of the opposite sex? Probably should refrain. At Jesus' first miracle, he made good wine after the junk wine had already been drank. Everybody was shocked because usually the good wine was served first, and the rot-gut stuff later, the implication being that once everyone was tipsy, they wouldn't know the difference. So one could infer that Jesus understood that, and he gave more wine to already-tipsy people. That being said, the bible also talks about not being a stumbling block. IF other people see a deacon drinking, it might give them the wrong impression, and a deacon should be mature enough to discern that.

What should we do about Roman 16:1
Talking about Phoebe?

One thing overlooked is the assumption being made that any time wine was mentioned in Biblical text, it referred to fermented wine. Not the case. Also, others of the time wrote about the common "wines" of their time (Aristotle, Horace, others) that were what would simply be referred to as juice today. The non-fermented wines yayin (Jews) or oinos (Greeks) were the premium drinks of the day (the good stuff) and were fresh-squeezed from the grapes. Wine was an umbrella term for all products derived from crushing or processing grapes.
Do you really think that Jesus would offer a stronger drink to someone already tipsy when scripture declares "not to be drunk with wine wherein is excess?" Would Jesus encourage someone down a path that he would later revoke through Paul's letters?
The fear of what others will think is a poor directive for leading one's life, whether spiritual or secular. The movement of "test the wind theology" is almost always in stark contrast to the edicts of God. The call to service is not a "come as you are, do as you please" feel-good party, but a call to take up the cross and follow Christ. Ultimately, God does not present His word to receive feedback and discuss opinions, but to receive repentance and direction for service.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

Just the thoughts of an old-time, fundamentalist preacher who still preaches (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) is hot, Heaven is wonderful, and Christ died for all sinners so all could choose their own destiny.

One can be under the influence of alcohol without being drunk. If the wedding attendees were completely sober, I don't know why it would matter what order the quality of the wine was. Drunkeness is a state of loss of self control. And I don't mean that a deacon should be afraid of what others should think, quite the opposite. But the bible does state not to be a stumbling block.

Plenty of hate towards Catholics in this thread. So let me start by saying I am a Catholic that married a Southern Baptist. We attend both services and bible studies with our daughters. So, I have heard all this hatred and judgement before.

There is a single point to remember... the way to salvation is through Christ. That does not matter if you are Catholic or Protestant.


If your deacon wants to have a beer with their adult stepkids he or she should be able to with out judgement from the flock.

Nick from North Dakota

I'm in agreement with the black and white literal meaning of the Scriptures. Must be a man, only one wife, no old wine (Fermented, in other words, alcoholic beverages.), have a good, orderly household, and a Godly wife.

I'm a deacon in my Church. I've been divorced and was single when asked to be a deacon but since have been remarried. When asked to b a deacon I struggled with the idea of based of what the Bible said. Still do but was voted to b one so I do my best to serve and the rest is in Gods hands. Also about alcohol I struggle with which way to go one that one too but I know we're called not to b a stumbling block for others so I take that to the Holy Spirit for interpretation.

I am a Protestant, but agree with Nd guy. However if I were a Catholic I would have great heartburn with putting any money in the basket after what those sexual predator priests have done. Their victims are negatively affected for life because of what has been done to them. I think they all should be executed or at very least, castrated! They are the scum of the earth! Why so many? Could it be because they can't marry? Or is a hidden trait from before entering the seminary? Why isn't the Pope doing more than he is? What about all of the Church cover ups to protect these leeches?

The Bible instructs Preachers to marry women. Since Catholics do not recognize this, it has created this monster of basic needs.

EXACTLY Les, but sadly most denominations don't teach about Tirosh or Oinos to educate their parishioners.

Regarding the "husband of one wife" question:

Maybe that means he can't be a polygamist (multiple wives at the same time), I don't know why many denominations just assume that means he can't be divorced. Of course that may bring up another question; if a guy is divorced does God still consider him married? What about if the divorce was for just cause like infidelity?

Also, does it mean that a single guy can't be a deacon since he doesn't have "one wife"? I'm not playing a semantics game here, I think it might really mean that.

If your deacon has stepkids........chances are great he should not be a deacon unless her first husband is dead. Nick - as a Catholic, how well do you know the Bible? I ask honestly as I have known very few to carry a Bible to mass. I should add - you are 100% correct - only through Jesus Christ can one expect salvation.

Don't confuse Catholics for Catholicism! I know some Catholics who believe in Jesus. It's more of a dislike for the organized religion. And all the tradition and position stuff. Then I know some Catholics that think Mary will save them or Paul or their priest etc... Problem most of the time is Bible isn't studied. They just take some knuckle heads word for whatever is being said. Back in the day when it was state run. You weren't even allowed to read the Bible! People actually died for this. Then you had Reformation which is where you get all you prodistant denominations. My opinion: they are no better! The guys who really took the abuse from both Catholics and prodistant were the Anabaptist. Which in my opinion are the most close to correct there is and was. In today's world? Not so much! I am Baptist. But I would not belong to southern Baptist group if you paid me. And every time I here about that crazy Baptist Church here in Indiana I wanna vomit!

Bottom line is:. There is a thing called the trail of blood. From Christ till now. The cross through others who have died in His name till now. There is actually a book that outlines a lot of these folks who have died for the faith. You should read it.

Read you Bible for yourself, shuck it down to the cob, get rid of all the tradition and position stuff.

If there were just a denomination called Bible only.

That's the one I would join

Don't forget - though you may see no problem - what has God called leaders to do? Are they to live only to their convictions? I personally do not want a millstone around my neck.

Why - that is not Biblical? Think about it.

My desire is to know the Word of God in original context including Greek and Hebrew. We lose much just in English.

This is what confuses me about Catholicism! You have true believers in there! They get it! It's almost as if someone on the inside of these Catholic churches at some point actually read Bible and got saved. Then instead of vacating that church. Stayed and started preaching Christ. So you get pockets of Catholic churches who might as well be prodistant or even Baptist in some cases. Then you talk to one and it's Mary, then the other is Paul, then the other is the priest, then the other will tell you it's them, etc...

But that's because in most cases you have one of these lavender !aria types saying whatever they want from the pulpit. Then everyone below the pulpit just shakes their head in ignorance.

Why not? How is Bible only not biblical?

What if you drank alot of beer, but were a good guy, and a roofing contractor, and the church roof got messed by hail, the church had no money (yea right) and you had 40 square of shingles laying round from other jobs, could you be a deacon?

I assume if yer not a catholic or toucher of youngsters itd be a go?!

We can all be deacons.

At the time when Paul wrote to Timothy, polygamy was pretty rare, imo that scenario is not plausible. Another scenario I've heard is Paul meant to be true to the one your with, but I believe that was not what Paul meant and is backed up by other scripture. For example, Matthew 19:9 Says,"And I say to you,whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. The act of adultery would damage the Deacons testimony and therefore is disqualified.

To respond to the OP:
No a woman cannot be a deacon or hold any office in the church if the hubke clearly says that they are not to teach, and that they are to learn in silence.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

No one should drink. Drinking is a sin. (Before you get mad at me, realize I'm saying this because the Bible says it.not because I'm some holier than thou guy who never drinks. I'm a wicked sinner like the rest of us. But when I drink I am in sin)

Proverbs 20:1
[1]Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Proverbs 23:29-35
[29]Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
[30]They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
[31]Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
[32]At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
[33]Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
[34]Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
[35]They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.


Proverbs 31:4-5
[4]It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
[5]Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

The Bible says old wine and strong drink are not for "Kings" Revelation chapter 1 calls us Kings and priest

Revelation 1:5-6
[5]And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6]And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

So we see that the Bible is telling us that there is a difference between the saved and the unsaved. Saved folks should not drink because drinking is for those who are ready to "parish"..

Proverbs 31:6-7
[6]Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
[7]Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

As we know those we are saved will never parish..

John 3:16
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Last point is can a deacon be divorced.
First let's see what Jesus has to say about divorce and see the justification for divorce.

Matthew 19:4-9
[4]And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
[5]And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
[6]Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
[7]They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
[8]He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
[9]And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

We see that Moses gave the 12 tribes of Israel a way to be divorced because of the hardness of their Hearts.
Then we see Jesus correct this action by explaining that they Twain shall be one flesh. It would be hard for me to walk down the road cut directly in half, but I digress...
"What therefor God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." This is a clear commandment from Jesus. Jesus says in the Bible if you love me keep my commandments.

In Malachi 2 we see what the Lord thinks about divorce or "putting away" as the Bible calls it.

Malachi 2:16
[16]For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

So we see that the "hateth" putting away.
If the Lord hates it and tells you not to do it then don't do it. Would be my response.

However this doesn't answer the last point just a lead up to the conclusion.

I, Ken Smith am a wicked sinner that deserves (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).
I drink, I have been divorced 2 times and that makes me an adulterer. The Bible says that adulterers should be out to death like murderers or sodomites.

That being said I am not trying to be a hypocrite by telling you I think you should do this because I'm so good, but rather that's what the Bible says and I am a guilty sinner.

The reason a deacon can't do all of these things is because the bishop and the deacon are the face of the church. They are the ones that the congregation who is in sin goes to to get right, to get guidance, to learn how to remove sin from their life. If the deacons are living in sin then what is there to motivate the congregation to get sin out of their life?

This doesn't mean that a deacon will.not sin for that is impossible, but these very obvious sins are something men of God who are doing the Lord's service in the church should never do.

Now if we were to compare this to modern religion then we can see that the last of the world is running rampant in the church and the kids are learning that divorce is the norm.and drinking is a part of life.

Sad.

Well he laid it out well for you!

Is what your thinking not what I answered a bit ago?

Oh, there's more than one question, my bad.
1, I understand it to say a Deacon could have a drink here or there but cannot be drunk. Personally FWIW, I don't think a Deacon should drink but the bible says he can in moderation.

2. No

3. Unless she cheated or died, you can't be a Deacon. That's my take on it.

I would agree bowhunter. I should add, if she meets the biblical standard of being a Deacons wife.

I think questions like this are to be taken seriously, but at the same time these questions are often used within the church to justify a bit of judgmentalism.

We often choose to interpret scripture in a way that fits our biases, we must be careful.

I'm not implying that anyone involved with this discussion is being judgmental, but many of us including myself have been taught be people who do have a particular ax to grind.

Sounds like maybe someone needs to bring this to there attn as a biblical correction, in a biblical way.

So, regarding my question about a single guy being a Deacon??
Permissible or not since he doesn't have one wife.

Adultery is not grounds for divorce, fornication is. See if a man's wife had not been a virgin when the marriage was consummated then that is grounds for divorce.
The punishment for adultery is death not divorce.
I guess some would quote " till death do us part"

The proper way to read the Bible is compare spiritual with spiritual, this means using the old testament to explain the new testament and vise versa.

Remember Jesus said he had come not to distroy the law or the prophets but to fulfill them.

As to the getting drunk reference think of wine tasters... When they sip a wine to taste test it they spit it out afterwards because any amount of alcohol will impair their judgment.

1 Peter 5:8
[8]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

So having old wine as the Bible calls it or hard drink which is alcohol in any amount will impair your judgement. L
...Proverbs 31.

" A little wine for the stomachs sake" is a reference to juice. Remember the word juice is only used one time in the Bible.
And it was to keep from sounding redundant.
When I juice an orange that is new wine or fresh juice. Meaning it has not fermented and has 0% alcohol. If I let it age and allow it to ferment then it will have a growing alcohol content. Hence the difference between new and old wine.

Proverbs 23:31-32
[31]Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
[32]At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

If it's sinful to look at the wine then it must be to drink it.

There is no excuse good enough for us to sin and it be justified. We are sinners who are never justified. No matter what the world says. We all deserve (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).

A man that has had more than one wife is not a man of one wife. So no they can't be a deacon or a bishop (pastor)

Correct a person needs to have a wife.
A bishop has to have children plural as does a deacon, Meaning more than one child.

So they can show that they rule their house well.
1 Timothy 3:5
[5](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Just a side note "if a man" it says women don't rule their house. That's not a biblical marriage

AMEN, brother! Keep it simple. For a God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever believeth in Him shall not die but have everlasting life!!!!!!!!!

I know the modern definition of deacon has been changed a bit but there is only one Deacon biblically. The men holding the doors and money plates are ushers.
A deacon is more like today's modern associate pastor.

So, how many denominations that follow Paul's teaching about deacon selection also follow his teaching that women should remain silent in church, and if they have any questions about the teachings must wait until they get home to ask their husbands about what was taught.

Yes, I'm trying to stir up the pot a little.

Very few. I don't know of one church in my state that goes with what the bible actually says when it's a hard saying such as this. That doesn't make it any less true though.

I believe when it is speaking about women being silent in church it is talking about the congregation. Not so much in a building, but in the midst of the congregation women should be silent.

Obviously the purpose of this is to keep them from teaching anything. Exactly why only the Lord truly knows. But I'm sure all of us can come up with some ideas of why. Heck there are a lot of men who should stay quiet in church as well
All of these worldly churches are full of these foolish men.

This is why there is a list of requirements for a bishop and a deacon, so that the men who are speaking and teaching in church have at least a moral high ground that the rest of the congregation can see. Too many men get their certificate to preach from a school or an online course these day rather than from a spirit filled man of God.
That is the reason we are even having this discussion, no one wants to believe the clear text of the word of God anymore, everyone wants to do that which is right in their own eyes.
It's human nature. To sin

I think u mistook Bible for Quran.

N short.

Women are not to be given authority over men. Doesn't mean they don't play a huge roll! In some cases more important roll!!

Exactly the way I see it also.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Okay, here's the direct quote from the Bible, not the Quran.

If you have to be some God and a sin free person to be a Deacon in the church I would question many things about that church.

I can tell you I know many people that call themselves Christians but Monday through Saturday they live a different life then that of a Christian.

I am a believer and my faith is strong in the Lord but I can say that I don't believe in some of the ways the church does business. I can talk for one church they want money more then they care if you are receiving the gospel.

Pretty easy too see why we have so many church splits and so many different demonations.

I think Paul's letters need to be read from a little different perspective than most of the other books of the Bible, not that they are any less important, just different.

Even Paul himself says in 1 Corinthians chapter 11 that we are to "Judge for yourselves" concerning hair and head covering issues.

We have to remember that Paul was dealing with the merging of gentiles and Jews into one faith, he had many conflicting cultural issues to deal with.

Are we to take his dogmatically his teaching that we should all stay single and celibate? Of course not, even he realized that. Some denominations have taken that instruction dogmatically and don't allow their clergy to marry.

I think when reading Paul's teaching it's pretty easy to see what is important to implement into the way we are to live. If it's a subject that he's teaching that is also taught about in the rest of the scriptures; such as sexual morality issues, then it's a no-brainer. If it's a cultural issue then we are allowed to give it some subjective thought.

Waggled


It's in an athoritive context. As in not to diminish a man's authority or undermine it.

Not as in: sit down, shut up, and only speak when spoken to.

That's the best I can explain it.

Contrary to popular belief

Men can be wrong and women may have questions.


I use to instruct in the Military. Every once in a while I would say something wrong and/or just be wrong. Only was a real issue when you had that one smart guy n the class who had to prove how stupid you were. Or that one guy that had to question everything you said simply because he wasn't in Charge.

Women are to be a help mate. Not the tip of the spear so to say. When they start voicing their thoughts and questions in a public setting like that. Then they are becoming the tip of spear which isn't their role.

Very tricky topic!

Women are not second class citizens! They are mens equal in eyes of Lord. Just have different roles to be played.

Again. Very tricky topic!

Lol

I am the head of my household! "Tip of spear"

My wife keeps me going most of the time when I'm ready to quit!

And a lot of the time when the spear is needed? She is the one wielding it!!

Team!!! (Family unit)

I am all for anyone believing any way they choose. But I personally find the above offensive! It IMPLIES that women are NOT necessarily men's equal in the eyes of men.

Seems to me that could easily be the source of a lot of friction throughout the world. I think it lends credence to complaints by some that the world is a patriarchy.

That's my point white.

The roles as intended by God are not equal! Man and woman (different!)

Authority is given to man to answer conversation in question!

Taken out of context you wind up with the sit down and shut up mentality where women become property (Islam other messed up cultures and religion).

"They are mens equals in eyes of Lord" refers to spiritual importance. As in their souls. Women are not second hand creations etc...

Lol

Women are not necessarily equal in the eyes of men!!!! That's why u end up with women riding in back seat, walking behind their men, being bought and sold, in some cultures put to death when their men grow tired of them.

My point is that although men and women are not equal in roles to be played. We are equal in importance! Each gender having their own role to play out.


But in today's world when a guy can say he is a girl then run in a race and win when he wouldn't have even made role call on the men's team. I can see how there may be some confusion about that.

The original question refers to women taking authority in a spiritual environment such as church.

Also

More confusion is added when you don't believe in God and His design. God didn't create two men or two women. He created one man and one woman with very obvious differences and roles to play. Then you also have the family unit and how it is to function as intended by God.

Take away even the most generic belief in God and His creation. And this conversation will go nowhere in a hurry!

Not to start a conflict here but why then can't a women be a preacher in some churches if they aren't a second class citizen.

Amen!

I personally don't agree with any of the modern Greek definitions that are contrary to the word of God. That doesn't mean that some of them don't line up with the Bible and are accurate.
There is not a person on Earth today that speaks 100% koine Greek or ancient Hebrew for that matter. So we can't depend on man to keep the word of God that's God's job and he promised to do it. Psalms 12

See when King James made a council of the top scholars in the world to transliterate the KJV he used people who knew both languages fluently, and the method used to do this was to translate each word, 1 word at a time. This is why the KJV stands alone against all other modern (per)versions.
They didnt translate based off of doctrine or even have to agree on a sentence, they had to all agree 100% on the translation of each and every word. This is why it took years. Because they did it this way they didn't pervert the Bible based on doctrine as all the modern folks have. There has to be a standard to measure against and the KJV is that standard in English.
All the other Bible have clearly been adulterated and changed to fit the doctrine of the times. And there is no new thing under the sun. So compare these Bible or worldly Greek definitions to the Bible and if there is a conflict the Bible is right and the world is wrong.
The Bible says to let God be true and every man a liar.

If any of you are interested in learning the very sinister and satanic changes used by modern Greek and Hebrew mistranslations of the Bible there is a free documentary on YouTube that you can watch called New World Order Bible Versions.
Here is a link
https://youtu.be/kFtI_mVOXbQ

Remember Satan runs the world so of course he is changing the Bible and it's definitions.

Satans famous first words..
"Yeah, hath God said,"

I think someone else posted the verses. It's an authority issue.

Not being allowed biblically for a woman to have that authority does not make them 2nd class or of any lesser value.

Your not starting the conflict!

A disbelief in God, pride, and unwilling to submit to God is what creates the conflict.

And if you pay attention to all these govt hand out programs.

What do they ultimately destroy?

I just use a Strong's in conjunction with Bible.

I will be entering my kids into Hebrew and Greek!

Oh boy. Listen, I use King James Bible. I believe it is the best translation. But I hope you don't listen to Steven Anderson. The guy is a kook.He believes that Christ went to he'll and literally burned to make payment for sins. He also believes that homosexuals should be shot in the head-no redemption for them.

Lol the Bible does say sodomites are worth of death. New and old testament. For that matter so do adulterers, murderers, and child molesters. Yet the world spends a lot of time making excuses for these sins.
In fact a recent Ted talk finally came out and said what the scholars in Europe have been saying for years... That pedophilia is just an orientation like being a sodomite..
That's horrible.


Jesus prophesying of his own death here..

Matthew 12:40
[40]For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

- the story from Jonah...

Jonah 2:1-4
[1]Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
[2]And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of H'ELL cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
[3]For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
[4]Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

- so here it is clear the connection between these two stories that Jesus was trying to convey. The center of the earth =s H'ELL.

Next verse. David prophesying of the death of Jesus Christ...

Psalms 16:9-10
[9]Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
[10]For thou wilt not leave my soul in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

- furthermore the conclusion of David's prophecy that was explained by Peter on the book of acts..

Acts 2:29-32
[29]Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
[30]Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
[31]He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in H'ELL, neither his flesh did see corruption.
[32]This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

-
Later in the new testament we get some insight to what this means...


Ephesians 4:5-10
[5]One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6]One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[7]But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[8]Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9](Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10]He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

-- so draw your own conclusion brother. As I said before let God be true and every man a liar.

The family

Yup

Big govt hates functional families!

The most basic yet most important form of govt is a functional family!

I use Greek and Hebrew both in definitions and old ways of life and traditions to help understand original intents and meanings. And I'm an old KJV only guy.

Strong's Greek and Hebrew concordance

It's the "modern" changes in definitions that are problematic! One would think you could just go to store and buy dictionary and meanings of words would be the same as 2000 years ago.

Not so!

Need to be very careful!

It's why I'm old kjv only! You can really change the meaning or intent by changing a definition, moving punctuation, removing words, or adding words.

Sorry had to log onto my phone to cut and copy.

Here is one usage

Strong's Number
H2181
Original Word
זנה
Transliterated Word
zânâh
Phonetic Spelling
zaw-naw'
Parts of Speech
Verb
Strong's Definition
A primitive root (highly fed and therefore wanton); to commit adultery (usually of the {female} and less often of simple {forniciation} rarely of involuntary ravishment); figuratively to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Jehovah): - (cause to) commit {fornication} X {continually} X {great} (be {an} play the) {harlot} (cause to {be} play the) {(This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)} ({commit} fall to) {whoredom} (cause to) go {a-whoring} whorish.
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
to commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot

(Qal)

to be a harlot, act as a harlot, commit fornication

to commit adultery

to be a cult prostitute

to be unfaithful (to God) (fig.)

(Pual) to play the harlot

(Hiphil)

to cause to commit adultery

to force into prostitution

to commit fornication

Usage by Word
harlot (32), whoring (18), whoredom (11), (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) (9), fornication (3), whoredoms (3), whorish (3), harlot's (2), harlots (2), (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) (2), commit (1), continually (1), great (1), harlots' (1), make (1), (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)'s (1)

Here is another usage

Strong's Number
G4202
Original Word
πορνεία
Transliterated Word
porneia
Phonetic Spelling
por-ni'-ah
Parts of Speech
Noun Feminine
Strong's Definition
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.
Thayer's Definition
illicit sexual intercourse

adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

metaph. the worship of idols

of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Usage by Word
fornication (23), fornications (2)

Not all modern definitions are accurate. This is the issue with a dead language.
It is what it is. Don't get all bent out of shape.

If you want to assume the what the world tells you is truth over the Bible go ahead your free to do it. Likewise if you choose to believe the word of God is a living document that changes and moves with the winds of modern vernacular, feel free it's no skin off my back.

I choose to stick with the word of God over the worlds modern definitions. It is what it is.

Adultery is a married person engaging I sexual relations with a person other than their spouse.
Fornication is two unmarried people engaging in a sexual relationship without the union of marriage.

Still taking a Greek word porneia. Which I'm sure in modern Greek can't even be pronounced as it was back then, but given the definition is right I guess God was just wasting his time to make commandments about adultery. Seeing how they are one in the same.
I'm sure it was God who made the mistakes and not men.-- sarcasm


Like I said. There is no excuse for our sins, yet we always seem to find a way to force the Bible to say things it doesn't specifically say to justify our own sin.
Every man's way is right in their own eyes.


Divorce and remarriage is sin. And no matter what my ex-wife did it's not justified under the law of God.

I guess could cling to bogus modern definitions that give me a way out for my sin hut I think I'll just be guilty and glad Jesus paid for all my sins.
I'd rather believe the Bible than what the world says is true.
The word of God and the world are at enmity with one another. We can't ride the fence.

?

Did I miss something?

Burning of chaff


Understanding of old ways and different cultures at the time of writing is important as well.

Yeah

I agree.

Then u also have usage to contend with

And cultural application of that time

And original intents of God.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Lol

Yeah. Sorry

Working off two devices. I have all my notes on one. This one is a new tablet. Don't have everything switched.

It's a tuff question!

I posted the above verse in reference to your question. After reading that verse. I'd say we are all guilty of adultery every day of the week in today's world.

I think there are 3 reasons that justifies divorce worldly speaking. Adultery, Abandonment, and Abuse. But at the same time God doesn't divorce you every time you commit Adultery, Abandonment, or Abuse against Him. So biblically I'd say there is no real reason to justify divorce based off God's example. But I believe he doesn't hold you accountable worldly speaking for any of those 3 reasons.

In short: I don't think divorce for the right reasons in the past would disqualify you from bring a Decon as long as you met all other qualifications and showed signs that you weren't the real reason divorce happened.

Then it comes down to testimony. Did that divorce ruin your testimony?

Lots of factors!

Which kind of covenant do you think marriage is?




There were also three covenants used in the Bible.

# 1 Shoe covenant used by Boaz in a binding agreement to redeem Ruth.

Ruth 4:7 Now this was the manner in former time in Israel concerning redeeming and concerning changing, for to confirm all things; a man plucked off his shoe, and gave it to his neighbourand this was a testimony in Israel. Therefore the kinsman said unto Boaz, Buy it for thee. So he drew off his shoe.

# 2 Salt covenant God made with David 2 Chronicles 13:5, Ought ye not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt? Salt binds and preserves.

# 3 The Blood Covenant Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is an unconditional and everlasting covenant make by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ , and is called the new covenant. Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The first blood covenant made in the Bible was an unconditional one with Abraham. It answers to the covenant "A "above

The blood covenant was used by two people as binding until death. It was the strongest and most binding of all covenants. They would take an animal and kill it. They would divide it in two parts and lay them apart. Each would walk through the parts and shake hands and their part in this covenant. The blood covenant was used by two people as binding until death. When God made this covenant He alone walked through the parts as Abraham slept, but he saw it all. It was absolutely unconditional and binds God by His own oath.

God made three unconditional promises to Abraham, and He made an unconditional covenant to fulfill them. This is the sovereignty of God.

Remember

Christ paid in blood!

And we are the bride!

Lol

But Boaz sealed the deal with a shoe!

Shoe covenant breaking:. Return shoe
Salt covenant breaking: return every grain of salt you took
Blood covenant breaking: dead animal you split in two gets up and walks away

. No. I think it is cut and dried Darien. It states not more than one wife. It does not Mention any other condition is acceptable for a pastor or deacon anywhere. And I do understand, though… The scripturally acceptable conditions that you are bringing up. Those would apply to someone not being an adulterer upon remarrying I was taught that God does not want a man in an office of the church who has had a failed marriage, regardless of the reason.

I don't know how close a relationship the "scholars" had with Christ, which also is an indication of Spiritual guidance, this does have a bearing when I read what man has written.

The politics and business of church is awful and is the main reason we have so many denominations. Deacons have dirty jobs, being dirty doesn't help them do it better.

.

He does, not just on Sunday.

I suspect the exact answers will be known in eternity, should we each be blessed to reach it.

As an elder (spiritual leader) of a medium sized (250-400) non-demoninational church these last three years I have watched theology tear large holes in the minds and hearts of man (and women). Do we suppose that the God of creation designed a system of absolutism that pits man vs. man? Perhaps, but I've been discipled by solid Dallas Theological Seminary pastors that teach me that as you study scripture long enough you realize that there is much mystery that is rich and deserving of a lifetime of study.

Perhaps, just perhaps... It's not all for man to figure out 100% and perhaps our God wants to see how well we practice grace, mercy, love of our neighbor, etc. here on earth!

Why is there a need for interpretation? Why would the rules for not getting set on fire be open to interpretation? You would think the proper way to live and run a church would be crystal clear.

It is clear, the words are right there. It's people that want something else really bad and try to justify it by twisting words and meanings. That's how I see it anyway, fwiw.

Because people are not equal in their walk with God. Somethings that are relevant to someone advanced in their spirituality can be overwhelming to someone just beginning.

Many Pastors have never cast out a demon or witnessed a healing or a miracle or have the gifts of the Spirit in their church. A church must have power or it is only a social club. The Holy Ghost is not allowed to move.

I don't think the question remains unanswered nor do you need the dead Sea scrolls to figure it out.


Paul comes to mind every time I think about this topic. Paul was the chiefest of sinners yet God used him. Then also think about other men who had pretty shady past before becoming saved then preaching etc...

If you have been truly made new? Then you should be treated as such! But at the same time you should pass through the gauntlet that are your peers and other church authority.

No man currently in any form of adultery to include having two wives should be given any athoritive role in church!!!

If I were the one interviewing you? Divorce would be a HUGE RED FLAG!!!!!!! My questions of you would only get more intense from that point forward.

Remember

Even if she is the one who was wrong? You are still the one who made the "judgement" call to enter into that relationship!

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Ok all ,if a man got divorced before he got born again, does the man of one wife requirement still apply in the way you interpret scripture iyo ?

Look!

If you all need it explained in crayons I can get my kids involved!

Lol

Or I can go get the felt instructional we use for children's class? They break the info into easier to comprehend fagments.

Little felt cut outs of biblical stories. Use them on an easel

Control yourself!

That's the way to bring people to Christ.

I'm surprised you're not glowing with all your holiness.

Just messing around!

At some point the conversation stalls!

This is it. All the information and opinion has been put out there.

Time to cut up a little

This is why I will miss buck!

You won’t miss him as much if you control your breathing let the pin float a little over the vitals and release the string nice and smooth.

Lol

Biblical requirements of a Deacon? Wow now there is a loaded question. What denomination, synod, church etc. would this deacon position be for? Every Christian religion or denomination is based on man made theology of what they lift up, desire or demand. So that makes the requirements already slanted to the theology of the religion one is being trained in or for. The Bible is interpreted by many who study religion in many different ways. One would not have all the different churches and belief systems in Christianity if they were meant to be inclusive instead of a way to separate believers based on a set of rules and requirements.
Also having done quite a bit of Bible study I don't buy into the fact that the Bible is always about black and white. There is a lot of grey discussion in the Bible in both Testaments. Black and white is a lot different than Good or Evil or mercy and grace.

Bryce

And that boys was a homerun!

Gave up on this argument when it went ballistic. BUT:

Greek 3391 mia is :
https://studybible.info/strongs/G3391
Strong's:
μία
one or first
Derivation: irregular feminine of G1520;
KJV Usage: a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.

G1520
Thayer:
1) only one, someone


7 times in the New Testament the same word "mia" is translated as "first" (example: Luke 24:1
24 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.)

Other times it is translated as "one", but could have been "first" or "only" instead (example:
Matthew 26:40
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? (Not even the very first hour? Not only one hour?))