Army charged one of our best with murder today....for killing the enemy in 2010.

What a shame...

ABC News:
A former U.S. Army Green Beret has been charged with the 2010 murder of a man he suspected of being a Taliban bomb maker.
The charges follow multiple investigations of Major Matthew Golsteyn's role in the man's death that he once admitted to Fox News during a 2016 interview.
"Major Matthew Golsteyn's immediate commander has determined that sufficient evidence exists to warrant the preferral of charges against him," said Lt. Col. Loren Bymer, a spokesman for U.S. Army Special Operations Command.
"Major Golsteyn has been charged with the murder of an Afghan male during his 2010 deployment to Afghanistan," he continued.

Who ever brought charges should be dishonorabley discharged

Yikes. From what I can make of it, two men in his unit were killed by booby trap bombs. They found the bomb maker, but he wasn't on a list of people approved to kill. That's ridiculous. There's no rules in war. We don't need to be savages, we're supposed to be above that. But surely anybody can agree that anyone who bombs and kills our soldiers is the enemy, and the enemy needs to be killed. War should be fought quickly and decisively. We're supposed to be the most powerful military on earth, but we cant seem to defeat a bunch of illiterate goons with AKs and RPGs, because we have these stupid rules. Get in, take care of the enemy, reduce them to a smoking hole in the ground, and get out. If presidents (now two republicans and one democrat) and congress would realize this, we wouldn't have even been in Afghanistan in 2010, and we wouldn't have lost two marines to booby trap bombs.

loosegoose,

your post would make [some] sense (there ARE rules in war), if we were fighting a conventional enemy state.

we are NOT fighting against a state. this ideological enemy dresses in civilian garb and melts into the population, after their attacks.

what do we do, go in and kill everyone we see? Mai Lai massacre, anyone?

There are "rules of war", but they're basically a gentleman's agreement of sorts. Who's going to enforce them? Other countries? Screw them, we're our own sovereign nation, they can go pound sand. In the case of Afghanistan, we should have taken out the Taliban and the terrorist training centers they were famous for, and then left. In the case of Iraq, there was no need to get involved at all. No need to rout out every terrorist in the world. They hate us because we aren't them, and there's nothing we can do to change that. They'll always exist, should we always be at "war"? Let them hate us from afar. An AK can shoot a long ways, but it cant shoot across the ocean. What happens in other countries isn't our business. If it comes to our shores, then it becomes our problem, and we can deal with it swiftly as severely. No need to have this endless war stuff though, that's ridiculous.

The article says he admitted it to Fox News . However , I read elsewhere that this came out during the course of a polygraph .

That’s potentially the problem depending on how the question and subsequent questions were phrased. I’m certainly not assigning guilt , but how he answered the polygraph could be a sticker.

Anyone who’s ever had a poly probably has an idea of what I’m talking about.

A polygraph itself is not admissible in court. However, the test is like truth serum. The pre-test interview, people disclose all kinds of confessions. That's how Haditha came to light, the guy was off active duty and asked if he ever did a crime. He spilled the beans on Haditha.

The army officer in this case was out applying for a job and disclosed this incident in a polygraph interview. Investigation and board of inquiry followed but no charges. Then being a genius he went on Fox news and admitted it to the world. Can't execute POWs, what did he think would happen talking about it on Fox news.

The rules of war, who survives. It's crying shame, news articles, tell their side. Willing to bet 99.9%, never seen a fellow brother, get shot or blown away. It's called war, stupid games with stupid prizes rewarded. I'd recommend a good lawyer, and putting his story out there and get some support ,he will get. I never saw a report, in VN, until after the battle was over.

we agreed to them...our honorable word is at stake.

Rules of war according to God.

Kill everybody, men, women and children.
Take no spoils.

His way worked, the Taliban be gave a dirt nap tp is no longer killing US soldiers.

I see no problem, these tali's are not soldiers they will kill anyone, anywhere and anytime. They follow no rules of war...give em all a dirt nap.

Should have nuked bin laden on 9/12. Set a good precedent.

except...what if he got the wrong guy? he SUSPECTED him of planting the IED.

it's not like he caught him red-handed.

I'm not gonna sit here and judge the Green Beret; but it isn't as clear cut as some would have you believe.

What were the residents of Hiroshima suspected of? That display of force saved US soldiers lives.

What if he did not kill him and the guy killed a dozen more US soldiers?

I guarantee you he did not randomly pick someone out....he was extremely sure. How sure do you need to be?

the residents of Hiroshima supported the GOVERNMENT we were at war with...until Nagasaki changed their mind; and the war ended.

this war is different.

you were there, then?

I doubt the residents of Hiroshima were able to change their minds about anything one second after detonation.

Yes, this war is different. I ww2 we did what was necessary to win.. civilians were directly targeted. Guess what?


We won. Very different from what is going on in afgan today.


Anyway, I think it is a shame they charged the major. He was doing his job which is trying to win while keeping his men as safe as possible. Battlefield discretion.

not every citizen of Hiroshima was vaporized...many survived.

I'm not sure how to get this through your head, but it is not the GOVERNMENT of Afghanistan we are at war with...it is an insidious ideology that is festering in many parts of the world, including the USA.

you okay with the CIA assassinating US citizens because they are "extremely sure" they're a threat?

You do not need to get anything through my head....just forget about that.

How did you go from a soldier killing a bomb maker he was extremely sure was the bomb maker who killed US soldiers in a war zone to the cia killing us citizens?

That's kind of a broad jump in topics.

You win a war, any war by killing the enemy and those who support them. Keep killing them all until they have had enough. Proven to be a great strategy thru thousands of years of warfare. Take away their will to fight. Put your foot on the throat of these people and leave it there for a long time.

Simple.

Anyway, I hope the major is acquitted.

Danny's post was deleted, negating this response.

not really...there are US citizens who are planning such attacks, even as we speak.

kill them, too...because you're pretty sure they'll do it?

sounds like this guy might have violated orders, too...that okay?

The war in Afghanistan is much like what the police deal with in the hood. You know there are criminals there but nobody wants to point them out but readily (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) about how everybody is treated.

We shouldn't be there until the criminals have forced everybody out or killed them. lol

His primary responsibility is to win and keep his men as safe as possible. That's how I see it.

The rest of the argument is not relevant as I see it. Thanks for sharing your opinions.

I agree that we should not be there if we are not going to kill all the Taliban in afgan and the neighboring countries.

rules and Official Orders, be darned?

Battlefield discretion should be allowed. That's my opinion.

But, I already said that...

as I recall, it was several days later?

not really a battlefield situation.

as I said...I'm not judging the Green Beret.

but if he did wrong (and a court martial will determine that), then it is what it is.

What they need to do is move the desks of those pencil sharpeners in DC and their buts with them to the front line of any conflict they sign the paperwork for. Watch the rules change when they want to get back to their families alive and with no bits missing. This whole thing. " we are at war bit you can't go around hurting people thing " would go out the window in double quick time.

I agree wholeheartedly, Michael.

I thought any day in Afghanistan is a battlefield situation for a US soldier. The enemy could try to kill you any minute, afgan troops could kill you any minute, a bomb could go off any minute.
Now you say the major may have disobeyed orders....can you prove that? Your big on proof....unlees he was given a direct order not to do exactly what he did then it is a combat situation and battlefield discretion should prevail.


You do realize that any day in a war zone is a battlefield situation when your dealing with an ununiformed enemy.

As far as someone in the US planning/bomb making we have law enforcement and a judicial system to deal with that. This situation is completely different. There is absolutely no comparison. If you want to disagree with the way I feel, go ahead.But I am not going to be agreeing with you on this.

As far as the court martial goes even if found not guilty he will be put thru an extremely rough ordeal for just trying to do his job under very difficult circumstances.

Whatever happens to this guy, I thank him from bottom my heart. I hope the best for his family, and he is welcome at my place anytime. His honor remains.

Marty,

there is also a judicial system in place for the military.

he will be given a fair trial.

you seem to think that a soldier's actions should NEVER be questioned. I happen to think they should be given a fairly wide latitude, but there are some lines you don't cross.

Did he cross that line? I don't know.

And neither do YOU!

You have no idea what I think or why I think what I do.

should have destroyed Saudi Arabia on 9/12. the rest of those outhouse pit countries would do everything they could not to invoke U.S. wrath. opium producers in Afghanistan maybe ought to make the list too. at least then it would be possible to believe the war on drugs is real. not just a bunch of cops with their necks stuck out and getting no real government support. war on drugs, war on terror, war on poverty, all just a shell game to suck up tax dollars. who cares who gets hurt so long as the tax dollars keep coming

Opium is the #1 $ maker for the tali's.

Afgan is the #1 exporter of opium/heroin.

When we had troops in s/e asia, s/e asia was the #1 exporter of opium/heroin.

Go figure...…

Here are the facts:
Afghanistan produces 95% of the global supply of raw opium, which is used to source nearly all of the heroin consumed in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. It has seized a sizeable share of the heroin markets in certain areas in Asia, the Pacific, and Canada. The country produces about 375 tons of heroin every year, which is more than the next 2 largest producers combined (Mexico, 26 tons per year, and Myanmar, about 50 tons). Yet it supplies very little of the heroin consumed in the U.S.

you got that right.

but I didn't SAY I know what/why you THINK certain things...

I said you didn't KNOW whether or not he crossed a line...and you DON'T know that.

edit: I re-read my post and I DID give you the benefit of the doubt by saying you seem to think...

so...when can we question a soldier's actions?

When he shoots up his base or drops a bomb on a flight deck.

The army charged him not questioned what he did.

Interesting exchange between Marty and Marlin.

Just so I can better understand perspective, have either one of you served active duty in the military? Mind sharing what, when and where?

I have never been in the military.

I don't believe prior service is needed or relevant concerning having an opinion on military affairs. After all, our country prides itself on civilian control of the military. That being said, if our congress did it's job by debating our 'wars' and coming up with a clear cut goal for being there 17 YEARS after first going, this young Major may have had a better idea on how to deal with situations like this. Perhaps situations of Marines wandering around waiting to get blown up by roadside bombs could've been avoided.

Agreed, but I'm asking so I understand the perspective of those stating their opinion.


Following the constitution is a novel idea. When was the last time congress actually declared war?

December of 1941.
Which was, coincidentally, the last war or conflict we won.

War does not need to be declared for a president to use military action. Our founding fathers even used our military without congress declaring war.

The Barbary wars were limited in scope, and short in duration. I don't believe a 17 YEAR 'war' in several countries on different continents are remotely close in comparison to the Barbary wars. Nice try tho.

17 years is an embarrassment as is the way the government treats veterans. It is my understanding that the cia recommended charges in this case after a job interview/poly....I wonder if they offered him the job and it was a set up?

Another Green Beret was charged for smacking down an afgan officer who was raping young boys on a base...I believe he was acquitted in the end.

Been done many, many times.

Your last thread about resolutions is a hint.

Resolutions?

Isnt that what war is? They kill as many of us as they can and we kill as many of them as we can. Whoever kills the most wins

I have not.

I have many close family and friends who have served.

That's interesting, maybe Trump can get involved and then the case gets tossed.

Trump says he'll review murder case against ex-Army commando https://onenewsnow.com/ap/politics/trump-says-(This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)-review-murder-case-against-ex-army-commando

We kill people all the time in war! For a whole lot less!! This guy was the expert on the ground if that means anything to anyone anymore?

I'd say it depends on what his orders were! If he had orders with a mission that gave him the leeway to identify and kill? Then all is fair in love and war! If he didn't and had orders or an sop that said otherwise? Then yeah, he is up the creek without the paddle!

Knowing the last administration I'd say the man killed Obama cousin or something?

Matter of law enforcement? Whatever!

Mission first!

The right thing to do was to pat him on the back and say congratulations, you got that …….

He should have got a medal.

He should be given any leniency allowable. Decisions made during battle are very different than ones made in the comfort of our homes. I hope justice can be had with that understanding.

Shoot, Shovel and Shut up:rules of engagement like CFLIC are/were an eye opener. No one figured this war would go on and they dont want to call it a religious war and now they are looking at calling the Taliban a legitimate negotiating faction. Argue/discuss it all you want, there will be a point when you as an individual will make a call, you might want to be ready for it. Governments do not like it when when you assume responsibility for your actions, thats why the elite organizations have always been a little stand offish to the regular world. Just like civilians and the regular mil or conservative vs liberal.