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Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6402906
12/19/18 10:15 AM
12/19/18 10:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
I can see where that method could be very beneficial. I have never tried it and likely won't. I suspect it is a lot easier to do that in SE rather than the interior where moving a set many miles requires breaking a lot of trail with a lot of chopping and deep snow. I think that would be the limiting factor here.

Rather than a collar on marten , why not a chip injected under the skin ? The technology is old enough that it shouldn't be terribly expensive


Mean As Nails
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6402973
12/19/18 11:57 AM
12/19/18 11:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,514
juneau, alaska
A
alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
alaska viking  Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,514
juneau, alaska
Is there such technology that "tracks" chips? Or would the chipped marten have to be harvested, chip turned in, harvest location then recorded?
The study T4E refers to used telemetry collars, if I remember correctly.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: trapped4ever] #6402975
12/19/18 12:01 PM
12/19/18 12:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Originally Posted by trapped4ever
Hope this isn't a high jack of your thread waggler, if so, I apologize!

Ok, to revive this conversation. Let's talk set location duration/ trap nights, at a given locale. I find this a highly effective way of avoiding to high of a female catch rate. You will still catch some, but leaving sets in a location for a short time frame, 2-3 checks, will minimize female trap encounters. This is talking big picture, with a big line out. Not as applicable for a small line, where time and line space are an issue. Anyone else use this strategy? Set, check a couple to three times, pull and relocate miles away. Just keep moving, and remove the "cream", leaving behind seed for next season. Makes for a lot more work, as you are almost constantly working at putting in sets, but it creates a higher consistent production than pounding the same area, all season long. Any thoughts, or other points of view?

Y254, interesting your marten seem to rely so heavily on the hares. They do have a wide variety of diet, that changes drastically, seasonally, around here. Collars on marten are a bad deal, if you want saleable fur. Our nearly 30 year old collar studies showed long range travels, in very short time spans. Also helped establish estimates for home range size, locate dens, resting/ bedding locations, etc. Unfortunately, the collars ruined the fur, and killed marten, in many instances. The collars were abrading off most of the fur, then chafing against the skin, and causing infection, in some cases. Technology has come a long way, and maybe a better, lighter collar is available now?


Yes although I dont worry about over trapping as much as some, ( because of the abundance of refuge) I do use this strategy. I have about 60 km of usable trail right now, and am adding more every year. Instead of fighting to keep that much trail open all season, I trap it in sections. I will set out a section of trail, leave it for 3-4 checks, then pull it and set out the next section. Usually I do 30km at a time. How often I check depends on sign. Most years Im OK to check every six days, but have seen it where I needed to check more often or I lose fur to cannibalism. This way Im usually trapping one section for about 3-weeks. It is very effective at minimizing female catch.

I learned this from a guy down in BC. His catch is pretty consistently 300-plus marten a year. He traps each section of line for two weeks, ( two checks) and then pulls his traps and moves to the next section.

My youngest daughter and her husband are out on their new line right now. The line they bought is a good one. It has always produced good numbers of marten for a Yukon line. ( 200-plus every year) The guy they bought it from used this method as well, so they are doing the same thing. They just pulled their south lines after 3-checks. Their YOY ratio is almost 90% and the female catch is under 25%.

How far did marten travel in the collar studies?? They started doing a collar study in Watson Lake back in the 90s but the biologist quit before any data was put together so we never knew what he found.

Ken I could be wrong but I dont think they can track with the chips can they??


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6403090
12/19/18 02:55 PM
12/19/18 02:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
I believe they can. We had a teacher here several years ago that "chipped" a bunch of swans and was able to track them on their migration south.


We had a study done about 70 miles east of here several years ago. If I remember correctly one marten was trapped 80 miles from where he was tagged. I'm sure that must have been an extreme. Gulo will have much better info on that.


Mean As Nails
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6403102
12/19/18 03:25 PM
12/19/18 03:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
It would be really interesting to me to see how far they actually do move. I know they do, what I dont know is how far. On my trapline and many others, 20-miles would put them out of reach for the most part.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6403156
12/19/18 05:11 PM
12/19/18 05:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
Yeah I am sure they move just from witnessing "the wave" a few times. No idea where they came from or where they went


Mean As Nails
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6403567
12/19/18 11:23 PM
12/19/18 11:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 270
alaska
T
trapped4ever Offline
trapper
trapped4ever  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 270
alaska
There you go, Y254 explained it better than me! Just rotate on down the line a ways, pulling sets after a few checks.
This study was using telemetry collars tracked by plane, and on the ground. Also numbered metal ear tags, and implant chips, similar to coded wire tags in salmon. The implants were either scanned on live trapped marten (researchers), or recovered from carcasses, just under the skin, (trappers). This was a joint effort involving ADF&G, trappers, and another University based research team. Off hand, I recall one collared marten that had moved over 60 miles in a matter of weeks, I believe. I think there is research occurring out on Kuiu Island now, possibly?? Not sure, as I have no involvement with that one.

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: yukon254] #6403683
12/20/18 12:53 AM
12/20/18 12:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,489
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,489
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
Originally Posted by yukon254
. I will set out a section of trail, leave it for 3-4 checks, then pull it and set out the next section. Usually I do 30km at a time. How often I check depends on sign. Most years Im OK to check every six days, but have seen it where I needed to check more often or I lose fur to cannibalism. This way Im usually trapping one section for about 3-weeks. It is very effective at minimizing female catch.


Y254, are you and others doing this from one cabin? Do you have a cabin every 30 km? If you have more than one cabin do you have to get back to a "main" cabin by the end of the season?

mt

Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: martentrapper] #6403728
12/20/18 03:12 AM
12/20/18 03:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Y
yukon254 Offline
trapper
yukon254  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,421
Yukon
Originally Posted by martentrapper
Originally Posted by yukon254
. I will set out a section of trail, leave it for 3-4 checks, then pull it and set out the next section. Usually I do 30km at a time. How often I check depends on sign. Most years Im OK to check every six days, but have seen it where I needed to check more often or I lose fur to cannibalism. This way Im usually trapping one section for about 3-weeks. It is very effective at minimizing female catch.


Y254, are you and others doing this from one cabin? Do you have a cabin every 30 km? If you have more than one cabin do you have to get back to a "main" cabin by the end of the season?

mt


I have cabins at two different locations and am building a third right now. Prefabbing it here at home and will move it out after Christmas.

My daughter and her husband can do it all from their main cabin although they have several cabins at the end of some of their longer runs so they can overnight when needed. My base camp is on my main trail out so I always end up there.


do unto others as you would have them do unto you

www.grizzlycreeklodge.com
Re: Marten wrestling 2018 [Re: waggler] #6407741
12/24/18 01:10 PM
12/24/18 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
Take the cream and move. Does not normally pay to check the same traps after they have been out 3 or 4 weeks. Catch rate almost always goes down. Constantly, pulling areas and resetting new areas during the season. I didn't know this was some special technique? Yes, this does mean constantly cutting and breaking trail. It feels a lot like work.

I'm not making any claim that this reduces female catch, but on a normal recruitment year, I can see where more mobile YOYs could plug a trap before a resident adult female finds it.

Last edited by Dirt; 12/24/18 01:14 PM.

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