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Fox Under Shed #6418046
01/04/19 09:52 AM
01/04/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 653
Wisconsin
E
Eagleye Offline OP
trapper
Eagleye  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 653
Wisconsin
Received a call from an elderly lady that has a fox living under her shed (saw it enter a fox hole), her neighbor is a huge, protect the wildlife advocate. It has all the makings for, thanks but no thanks and is also 1 hr. from my residence. Local DNR Warden that I know, gave her my number. Is there any guidance I can give her to use as a deterrent ? I.e.; Ammonia soaked rags, coyote urine, etc.- she is worried about her small dog when she lets it outside.

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6418269
01/04/19 02:45 PM
01/04/19 02:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
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TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
When I trap problem animals, I'm there to solve a problem for the individual who is currently dealing with the issue, not there to entertain their neighbors worries. I would type up a contract with specifics if your worried about third party interference. They could try to harass it, but chances are it will come back or find another appealing area on their property. Removing the problem is your best bet. If you're motivated you could offer an animal barrier install, or offer it when the weather breaks. I would do the job.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: TDHP] #6419911
01/06/19 09:51 AM
01/06/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
F
Fishdog One Offline
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Fishdog One  Offline
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Southern Wisconsin
So TDHP, how would you set up to trap a red fox in a subdivision, knowing a neighbor is going to be on the phone to some authority if she witnesses an animal in a cable or soft catch trap? I see the fox as only going under the shed to look for a meal, not using it as a den site, I might be wrong, but it is not cold in Wisconsin now.


Born twice, die once
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6419943
01/06/19 10:30 AM
01/06/19 10:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
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TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Mass
First we can't use any of those traps, and fox are easily trapped in cages. Second I would use blocking around the shed with multiple cages and run a positive over the entrance...poster typed "LIVING" so it isn't there for a meal. Third that is why you type up a contract and inform such "authorities" that you will be in the area at X address using X trap(s). Contract should have everything you will be doing on it under your permit/license. You have a license or should if you are attempting to remove wildlife on another property, you're doing nothing wrong. Traps tampered with, cams coming up missing, all that should be covered in your price. That is why I get monies upfront or they can call someone else or deal with the issue.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6420071
01/06/19 01:47 PM
01/06/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 164
Schenectady, NY
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EatenByLimestone Offline
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EatenByLimestone  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 164
Schenectady, NY
We would have to use a cage also. And get a nuisance permit specifically for that fox.

I'd use a positive set with the outer door wired open, letting it escape and not get back in. I'd be trenching around the shed so it can't dig a new entrance without trouble. Let it move to the neighbor's yard. Trench around the neighbor's shed or deck too.

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6420101
01/06/19 02:37 PM
01/06/19 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 275
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
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star flakes  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 275
MN, USA
If you do not want someone seeing what you are up to, then set up an ice fishing shanty.

There might be a suggestion for this in i recall the old folks around here used to noodle fox with a pole and barbed wire. I would do some research on it to see if there was a description online. Failing that, if it is legal, get some rodent smoke bombs, a few rocks to pack in the hole, a bucket of dirt, a bucket of water, and bury it that way as frozen Wisconsin makes a good cap on a hole.
Use enough of the product and if the fox does not dig out, you got the problem in one trip and no one is going to know a thing about it, as all you did was "observe the situation and plugged the hole".

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6421095
01/07/19 03:32 PM
01/07/19 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 95
NM
H
HD_Wildlife Offline
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HD_Wildlife  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
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NM
EagleEye,

For what its worth, why not exclude the fox from under her shed? Maybe she isn't willing to pay, and trapping would be cheaper, but neighbor aside, any reason you couldn't exclude the shed via trenching and wiring
it off?

One thing we run into all the time is the homeowners notion this is the only animal of this species that will ever be there in their yard.

In this case her worry over the fox is her small dog. How small is the dog?

We have folks all the time call about urban/suburban coyotes and their belief is seeing the coyote means it is going to attack or kill their dog which it may.

But their logic wanders on the notion, once coyote X is gone, no more coyotes so let fluffy out unattended and never worry again, which is a great way to lose fluffy for good.

We certainly have predators attack small dogs and cats that are outdoors especially unattended, but if folks have "harborage" on their property that is allowing a den right there,
or want to be there for any reason, the increased likelihood of issues of course is going to spike.

Don't get me wrong here, it isn't to me about trapping or not trapping whether your state or area allows relocation, euthanasia, etc...

To me if the worry is the fox is there and she sees it using the shed routinely, she should desire to remove the ability to get under the shed, which is a good job for a wildlife control professional.

While some would remove the fox and then also upsell the exclusion, I'd go right to the exclusion. Trench it, add the barrier and a 1 way door with a trail cam. Monitor and when fox is gone, block last section or sections where you had the door or doors and collect your fee.

-----

Everyone has different methods, opinions, and experiences in this industry like any. They have what works for them and what doesn't, what they like to do and what they don't and ultimately within the law there is often a wide range allowed.

As to the neighbor, I've had neighbors as most have with this industry who are nosey, watching over the fence and even when we aren't harming the wildlife or even handling them, people will often try to pressure the owner you are talking to or working for. This is the nature of how people feel or react to us, right or wrong and up to you what you do with that.

We work a lot with urban skunks and they are a classic example here of something people are lacking knowledge on. Most folks even nature lovers will say "we had a skunk last year that came through the neighborhood and we could smell it but haven't seen it since."

To which I can generally respond, "every 2-3 houses on your block have not just 1 but 3-5 or more skunks living on their property under sheds or crawlspaces" which usually results in bulging eyes and a "no way, we can't possibly have that many!"

We can exclude from one property and have owners ask, what about my poor neighbors? Guess what, the neighbors already have them if they have harborage that is suitable. Period!

Should I run around trapping skunks as though I'll remove them all from the area? You can, I'm not going to. I can however resolve it for that owner with exclusion, one way doors, cameras and modified gates on their block wall yards.

So I guess my .02 or .10 would be, don't forget you can exclude that fox but also remember, share some biology with her, and that the fox is native to the area and isn't the only fox though it may be some time before another comes along, I feel it is my duty to assure folks get that you cannot leave a prey sized dog or cat outdoors and expect no possible predator at some point will kill or consume it.

(PS, where I live that could include, bobcat, coyote, mountain lion, fox, bear, etc. let alone rattlesnakes in terms of damage to "fluffy")

Justin

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6421302
01/07/19 06:35 PM
01/07/19 06:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
F
Fishdog One Offline
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Fishdog One  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
This has been very helpful, Eagle Eye posted and same lady or one exactly like her called me, I also did not like the long drive. I have trapped a coyote, some coon, a mink in the same community and the cops can be dicks about it. I told my brother ADC trapping pays because you deal with people, nicer out on a marsh alone with low pay off, but that is the way it is. HD from NM hit it on the head, I do not think she wanted to pay for what I told her, exclude it, she was going to try that on her own first.


Born twice, die once
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Fishdog One] #6421478
01/07/19 08:44 PM
01/07/19 08:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
trapper
TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
Originally Posted by Fishdog One
I have trapped a coyote, some coon, a mink in the same community and the cops can be dicks about it.



How so? Wisconsin local authorities enforce wildlife /game laws? Or you talking about your wardens? If you are operating under your permits/ license, what was done that interfered with your trapping?


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6421514
01/07/19 09:01 PM
01/07/19 09:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
F
Fishdog One Offline
trapper
Fishdog One  Offline
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F

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
That was the the problem, they want to show their authority, lets see ID, what are you doing with the animal, etc. Stay at least 5 feet back, I was not even armed, hate to think about having a weapon on me.


Born twice, die once
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6421567
01/07/19 09:34 PM
01/07/19 09:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
trapper
TDHP  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
That's a Bummer. mad


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Fishdog One] #6421898
01/08/19 06:39 AM
01/08/19 06:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 653
Wisconsin
E
Eagleye Offline OP
trapper
Eagleye  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 653
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Fishdog One
This has been very helpful, Eagle Eye posted and same lady or one exactly like her called me, I also did not like the long drive. I have trapped a coyote, some coon, a mink in the same community and the cops can be dicks about it. I told my brother ADC trapping pays because you deal with people, nicer out on a marsh alone with low pay off, but that is the way it is. HD from NM hit it on the head, I do not think she wanted to pay for what I told her, exclude it, she was going to try that on her own first.


Ditto- Thanks for all the responses- to further complicate the situation, the animal loving neighbor has a machine shed that the fox has been seen going in and out of- probably hunting mice, she won't let this lady board up or fence the entrance. You would think you could easily set multiple cage traps and tell her to call when there's a catch but that also doesn't meet the regulations of checking traps daily. In a subdivision, on a busy road with an amped up neighbor- sometimes "the Juice isn't worth the Squeeze".

Again- appreciate the insights

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6421953
01/08/19 08:35 AM
01/08/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
trapper
TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
Lots of variables could play into ^. If a neighbor calls the law, them asking for your ID and what you're doing isn't giving you a hard time. Actually pretty standard, and just doing their job. Like you would do when you get a call to remove wildlife, you ask questions right? That's why it's a good idea to inform them that you will be there utilizing traps for X reason, professional courtesy goes a long way. Or you could be one of them folks who feel you shouldn't have to do that. Fact is it's 2019 and these types of calls come in all the time, just have to know how to deal with them, or don't entertain them. I've been on a few jobs where epo's had to get involved due to some things the previous trappers done regarding neighbors and animals. Also had 2 cruisers pull up on me while I was exiting a home that I had permission to be in to check traps. I had already informed dispatch that I would be checking traps daily at the address. Showed them my paperwork and continued to march on. It's a business you don't interject personal feelings when dealing with disgruntled neighbors or anyone else you come in contact with. Jobs like that are a double edged sword, could be good or bad. Those are the jobs where you would want to get monies upfront, and if they started to nickle and dime you and come up with excuses, refer them out and onto the next job. Wasn't on the phone with yall, but I believe you already spent too much time on this matter knowing the backstory.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6421965
01/08/19 08:46 AM
01/08/19 08:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
F
Fishdog One Offline
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Fishdog One  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 179
Southern Wisconsin
I have been looking at editing my post for the reasons I just saw you posted. Yes they do a job and so do we and they do not know ours, and I sure do not know theirs. I apologize to any LEO I have offended, and have been told that it is training, to keep people at a distance, and my misspent youth still rears up every now and then.


Born twice, die once
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Fishdog One] #6422007
01/08/19 09:28 AM
01/08/19 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
trapper
TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
Originally Posted by Fishdog One
Yes they do a job and so do we and they do not know ours


You assume they don't, which I agree many don't and push calls over to wardens or epo's which they should. If you're there on business, that could be your moment to educate them on the laws on the removal side of things and what you are legally able to do to prevent future "harassment"...or not. Building relationships in this business is a +.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: Eagleye] #6429890
01/16/19 01:57 AM
01/16/19 01:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,938
Va
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pass-thru Offline
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The way I see it, if a neighbor is a making a "complaint" then they need to articulate something that if true constitutes a "crime." If they can't do that in their complaint, the police have no business investigating. So they should begin their line of questioning with the nosy neighbor, and unless she alleges something that his illegal, they should never even contact the trapper in question. That of course requires police that are well trained and understand the limits of their own authority.

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: pass-thru] #6430001
01/16/19 08:23 AM
01/16/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
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Originally Posted by pass-thru
The way I see it, if a neighbor is a making a "complaint" then they need to articulate something that if true constitutes a "crime." If they can't do that in their complaint, the police have no business investigating. So they should begin their line of questioning with the nosy neighbor, and unless she alleges something that his illegal, they should never even contact the trapper in question. That of course requires police that are well trained and understand the limits of their own authority.



Negative..when you get dispatched to a call for service all parties involved are logged/ran or should be..crime or no crime. That's done by well trained officers.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: TDHP] #6430020
01/16/19 08:52 AM
01/16/19 08:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,938
Va
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pass-thru Offline
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Originally Posted by TDHP
Originally Posted by pass-thru
The way I see it, if a neighbor is a making a "complaint" then they need to articulate something that if true constitutes a "crime." If they can't do that in their complaint, the police have no business investigating. So they should begin their line of questioning with the nosy neighbor, and unless she alleges something that his illegal, they should never even contact the trapper in question. That of course requires police that are well trained and understand the limits of their own authority.



Negative..when you get dispatched to a call for service all parties involved are logged/ran or should be..crime or no crime. That's done by well trained officers.


"I don't suspect a crime or have any reason to but I'm going to be nosy anyway." That's a terribly trained officer. Learn to mind your own business and stay off my property.

A reasonable citizen will tell said officer to pound sand and show them the gate.

Re: Fox Under Shed [Re: pass-thru] #6430050
01/16/19 09:38 AM
01/16/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
TDHP Offline
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TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,685
Mass
Originally Posted by pass-thru
"I don't suspect a crime or have any reason to but I'm going to be nosy anyway." That's a terribly trained officer. Learn to mind your own business and stay off my property.

A reasonable citizen will tell said officer to pound sand and show them the gate.


When your dispatched, your job is to find out what the problem is from all sides. If you take a job where you know the disgruntled neighbor may be an issue. No harm in Informing the proper authorities that you have legal documentation to perform x y and z on X property. Here, you can say what you'd like and you can show them to the gate, after they log/run ya. As stated all parties would be logged, it wouldn't be up for debate if it was a call for service. If the disgruntled neighbor calls IE says you've done X, services will be rendered...per policy. Pays to know what you can and can't do when dealing with the public.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
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