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WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? #6427950
01/14/19 06:57 AM
01/14/19 06:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
C
cat4fish Offline OP
trapper
cat4fish  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Iowa
I've read in this forum (many times) that VALERIAN is attractive to bobcats, is equal to or more then real cat nip. In the last Trapper Post, Mike Marsyada article totally rebuts thats."While we've known for a long time that Valerian is not at all attractive to bobcats" Been waiting for someone to bring this up in this forum. What your opinions NOW ????

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6427987
01/14/19 08:25 AM
01/14/19 08:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,170
Indiana
L
lureintheanimal Offline
trapper
lureintheanimal  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,170
Indiana
x2!

valerian put cat to sleeeeeeeeeeepppppp......zzzzzzzzzzzz's , smile

(cat), it take you decades to figure this out? smile

ahhh 'cat valerian' , I seen that too long ago, cat fall on your set to nappy /---* grin

Last edited by lureintheanimal; 01/14/19 08:46 AM.

vis vitalis
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6428937
01/15/19 08:58 AM
01/15/19 08:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
C
cat4fish Offline OP
trapper
cat4fish  Offline OP
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Iowa
There was several opinions on here that Valerian would stimulate Bobcats into utopia. If you agree or disagree please share. 2oz of tinctured and 2oz of powder VALERIAN maybe for sale ! Yes i bought into it ! LOL

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6429202
01/15/19 01:16 PM
01/15/19 01:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,791
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
trapper
Bob Jameson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
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SW Pa
Valerian root powder, fluid or tincture will stimulate a cats interest with sometimes hilarious results. It will also cause rubbing on the material as do other ingredients. Does it have a calming effect over time? It may very well depending on the concentration amount and the exposure time to the material.

I am not concerned with the long term affect when exposed to the material, only that it promotes some interest and it gets a response from the animal.

If an animal is curious it can be caught if it spends that much time investigating. It is a natural occurring material and not a drug. That is what a trapper wants in a product. Something that instills interest and appeals to their basic nature of who and how they react instinctively.

I have long used and tested Valerian in various forms with good success. Built into a formula it works and its even better with other ingredients. It makes for a very effective product. Each has and is entitled to their own opinion and their findings.

I can only state in my many years of experience it has proven to be a valuable individual ingredient as well as a blended ingredient. I have tested all the ingredients that we have in inventory. I have in the past and we will continue to use them to this day. If there is minimal or very little interest in an ingredient then it has no value for my use or to purchase or the interest for making tinctured agents or other components from it for future use.

I would suggest testing some material on local felines or setting up a trail cam or two on some applied monitoring sites to form your own opinion. I will continue to use the material as I have for many years in our formulas that call for its use. I will also continue to test and search out any ingredients or materials that prove to give me and my customers the edge while in the field. Research & Development is a big part of what we do here as well it should be.
You cannot be a progressive on the cutting edge of formulation work and fail to continue to work towards continued advancement in the performance in your products.

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6429268
01/15/19 02:30 PM
01/15/19 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,866
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
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Marion Kansas
THE SECRET to being a great lure maker....the first four words of the last paragraph in Bob's post

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6432320
01/18/19 08:53 AM
01/18/19 08:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,084
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
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Monroeville NJ
yep


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors pod cast
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6432408
01/18/19 10:30 AM
01/18/19 10:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
C
cat4fish Offline OP
trapper
cat4fish  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
I've thought about trying that, i just don't know ! Very good advice !!!
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[Linked Image]

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6433360
01/19/19 08:58 AM
01/19/19 08:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,447
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
trapper
danny clifton  Offline
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Posts: 13,447
williamsburg ks
[Linked Image]


Its time to end political parties
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: Bob Jameson] #6434621
01/20/19 10:51 AM
01/20/19 10:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,170
Indiana
L
lureintheanimal Offline
trapper
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Posts: 1,170
Indiana
Originally Posted by Bob Jameson
Valerian root powder, fluid or tincture will stimulate a cats interest with sometimes hilarious results. It will also cause rubbing on the material as do other ingredients. Does it have a calming effect over time? It may very well depending on the concentration amount and the exposure time to the material.

I am not concerned with the long term affect when exposed to the material, only that it promotes some interest and it gets a response from the animal.

If an animal is curious it can be caught if it spends that much time investigating. It is a natural occurring material and not a drug. That is what a trapper wants in a product. Something that instills interest and appeals to their basic nature of who and how they react instinctively.

I have long used and tested Valerian in various forms with good success. Built into a formula it works and its even better with other ingredients. It makes for a very effective product. Each has and is entitled to their own opinion and their findings.

I can only state in my many years of experience it has proven to be a valuable individual ingredient as well as a blended ingredient. I have tested all the ingredients that we have in inventory. I have in the past and we will continue to use them to this day. If there is minimal or very little interest in an ingredient then it has no value for my use or to purchase or the interest for making tinctured agents or other components from it for future use.

I would suggest testing some material on local felines or setting up a trail cam or two on some applied monitoring sites to form your own opinion. I will continue to use the material as I have for many years in our formulas that call for its use. I will also continue to test and search out any ingredients or materials that prove to give me and my customers the edge while in the field. Research & Development is a big part of what we do here as well it should be.
You cannot be a progressive on the cutting edge of formulation work and fail to continue to work towards continued advancement in the performance in your products.



Bobbie sleeps with them cats, hhhheeeeyyy wheres the valerian I GOTTA GET MORE SLEEP, Ahhhhh thank you .. grin

This is America , I still believe, even though there is a barnyard going on in D.C.so the freedom of anyone person opinion still is American !
I agree with Mike Marsyada he was there back yonder picking Mr. Nick's brain, before the Good 'Ole Days came, ingredients were gloriously Good Quality, Good 'Ole Nick! God Bless him .
One can figure that someone over and over told them that , and over time, time, time, anybody would believe that , No matter what it is concerning , what worked then may not work,

most EVERYTHING in animal attractors today , Will Never be the Great Quality it once was, valerian is not the same valerian as it it once was . Same name, same officialis , No,
there was a day back when valerian was a great stout useful material . Even castor from beaver are different, pollution , poisons, and ALL , same, No .
advent of big farming big box stores big GM that fell down , America is NOT the same, and neither is valerian .
The earths soil has changed, over and over , and millions buried in it or in the wind that blew there precious ashes into it . Sure people died before, but there was not ALL these artificials , same NOT .

Most everything is artificial today, and getting worst , in some form or another and the material used that whacked at the old world valerian to cause it to become liquid is artificial and not really for it's purpose .
Is valerian , really, valerian , today, NO, it's something , IMHO

Last edited by lureintheanimal; 01/20/19 12:19 PM.

vis vitalis
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6434945
01/20/19 04:22 PM
01/20/19 04:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,791
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
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Bob Jameson  Offline
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B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,791
SW Pa
We make most of our own Valerian ingredients from pure root powder. It is as good now as it was when I began using it in the 70's. I see no difference in the quality in the way we develop the material or the results. I have learned over the years how to work with it to maximize its use and effectiveness in how it is processed.

Sweet corn I ate as a kid still tastes as good as it does now. Some things definitely have changed and will continue to change depending upon what you are referring too. Other things you learn to develop as much as you can with your abilities or you learn to work around things to maintain product quality and consistency.

A good formulator knows how to make much of his own use material when ever possible from original first generation based materials. If you dont you are subject to what is sold to you. I know the difference in things from years back as I still have materials to use as reference base line product and what they should be like. Todays young folks have to live a lifetime to learn what I have in what I have had to do to keep good products alive. No doubt there is some garbage out there for sale with little active value.

I guess if you dont know the difference it wont bother you.:)

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6434974
01/20/19 05:07 PM
01/20/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,005
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline
"Trapperman custodian"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,005
Goldsboro, North Carolina
I also make my own valerian products from valerian root powder. My testing coincides with Bob's. It does hold a good attraction to cats. Perhaps Mike got some inferior valerian, and didn't get the response we have gotten.

Beaver castor is as good as I've ever seen it during my use of it. Perhaps that nasty northern stuff has gone through a change, but these southern sweet gum eating beavers have been producing top quality castor.



Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6435600
01/21/19 03:49 AM
01/21/19 03:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 68
France
F
francis 31220 Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 68
France
To make a dyeing 100 grams of valerian root it takes 50 centilitres of alcohol at 70 .
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A+. Francis.
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6436219
01/21/19 07:01 PM
01/21/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,836
Mass
TDHP Offline
trapper
TDHP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Mass
Originally Posted by cat4fish
2oz of tinctured and 2oz of powder


I like Valerian root powder as well and during testing I have gotten the responses I wanted. Good quality Valerian root powder has a lot of odor in tinctured and in powder form and should fill a room when you open container/jug/barrel/bag. It should also remain odorous until put away, depending on how well the seal is on what it's stored in, if it has a weak seal its odor will seep out.


Smile, you're an expert!
For animal attractants.
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6436493
01/22/19 06:32 AM
01/22/19 06:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
C
cat4fish Offline OP
trapper
cat4fish  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
I find it interesting that the even experts have conflicting opinions. I'll be the first to say Im dumb as (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) when it comes to formulating lures and knowing about ess oils and uses. I just like the art of it .Thats why i come here, TO LEARN !!! Thanks to all that have shared some knowledge .

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6436583
01/22/19 09:14 AM
01/22/19 09:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,836
Mass
TDHP Offline
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TDHP  Offline
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Mass
Originally Posted by cat4fish
I find it interesting that the even experts have conflicting opinions. I'll be the first to say Im dumb as (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) when it comes to formulating lures and knowing about ess oils and uses.


You don't need to be an expert to be good or very good at something. Trappers who buy "proven" bait & lure from "expert" commercial makers shouldn't have to buy all types of the same lure if they are all proven and made by "experts", whether they are on location or not considering how well an animal can sense odors, and with the "calling" power they claim to have....one would think anyway. The Mrs. makes some of the best darn buff chicken around and makes it in large quantities for our kids team parties and events. Pan is virtually licked clean afterwards, that make her an "expert" at making that plate because she's been doing that for years? I don't think so,I think she understands what sauces does what to get the taste for the plate. We all need help from time to time, but don't get "trapped" going down that road because X uses name brand X and buys X ingredients and all the latest and greatest "cool" supplies etc.. Lots of folks become dependent and can't think on their own when they are constantly fed the information they ask for that could easily part in many ways. Obtain knowledge in the field you seek, getting out there to field test, and thinking for yourself when testing theories will put you ahead of the game. It's easy to ask for ingredients and what works with X and you'll get 101 different answers on the same ingredient. As you can see by the thousands of posts on the internet, they all have their own twist that makes it "magic". Simplicity, and location is really the key, repetitive but true. Those that follow will never lead. Good Luck out there


Smile, you're an expert!
For animal attractants.
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: Bob Jameson] #6439146
01/24/19 09:12 PM
01/24/19 09:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,082
N.C MO
T
TONY.F Offline
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TONY.F  Offline
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N.C MO
Originally Posted by Bob Jameson
We make most of our own Valerian ingredients from pure root powder. It is as good now as it was when I began using it in the 70's. I see no difference in the quality in the way we develop the material or the results. I have learned over the years how to work with it to maximize its use and effectiveness in how it is processed.

Sweet corn I ate as a kid still tastes as good as it does now. Some things definitely have changed and will continue to change depending upon what you are referring too. Other things you learn to develop as much as you can with your abilities or you learn to work around things to maintain product quality and consistency.

A good formulator knows how to make much of his own use material when ever possible from original first generation based materials. If you dont you are subject to what is sold to you. I know the difference in things from years back as I still have materials to use as reference base line product and what they should be like. Todays young folks have to live a lifetime to learn what I have in what I have had to do to keep good products alive. No doubt there is some garbage out there for sale with little active value

I guess if you dont know the difference it wont bother you.:)
Most of us younger generation guys will have to reinvent the wheel! Most of us will never know what the originals smelled like or there reactions.

Last edited by TONY.F; 01/24/19 09:12 PM.

LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6439492
01/25/19 08:15 AM
01/25/19 08:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,836
Mass
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TDHP  Offline
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Mass
Animals are still being taken with the products that are available today. So would the logic be to not make something because you can't get the "original" even though you are getting all the responses from a product you want? If it keeps an animal at a location to increase the likelihood of that trappers chances in connecting on that target is it wrong because their not using the "original"? We know the old timers are watching reruns of life when it comes to things like this.. times are changing.


Smile, you're an expert!
For animal attractants.
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6439561
01/25/19 09:39 AM
01/25/19 09:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,084
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
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Monroeville NJ
I don't know an old timer that isn't still testing and trying new things, They just don't talk about it.


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors pod cast
Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: TDHP] #6439589
01/25/19 10:00 AM
01/25/19 10:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
C
cat4fish Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 87
Iowa
What was pointed out to me and was a light bulb moment . It's about the chemicals that made up the old materials. Like real cat nip compared to synthetic cat nip oil. But then again the old materials could very greatly in quality. To were synthetics are more consistent.
TIMES are changing ! Quality lure and bait makers are a dying breed and a dying art. 1-The demand is down 2- the materials getting harder to get and 3- Finding a young person that can handle the riggers of bait and lure making.

Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ? [Re: cat4fish] #6439604
01/25/19 10:11 AM
01/25/19 10:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,836
Mass
TDHP Offline
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Mass
Originally Posted by cat4fish
What was pointed out to me and was a light bulb moment . It's about the chemicals that made up the old materials. Like real cat nip compared to synthetic cat nip oil. But then again the old materials could very greatly in quality. To were synthetics are more consistent.
TIMES are changing ! Quality lure and bait makers are a dying breed and a dying art. 1-The demand is down 2- the materials getting harder to get and 3- Finding a young person that can handle the riggers of bait and lure making.



Can't argue that..so my ? to you would be if an "expert" old timer who uses "authentic" ingredients and makes a "proven" lure why would you need so many? If its real quality stuff one brand should do the trick based of of that theory, because its "real right? Animals are unpredictable just when you think you know them, they teach you a new trick. You study animals enough to get a little grasp on their lifestyle, you don't need to walk into a bait and lure room with a lab coat and a respirator on.


Smile, you're an expert!
For animal attractants.
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
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