I don't know how old you are and how long you have worked or will work after you decide to exempt yourself. If you don't work the minimum quarters needed you will qualify for the minimum amount.

Yes it is no t easy to exempt but you can choose to do so, so don't say you can't.

Also if you want to you can get paid in commodities and not money. Say you work for a farmer and you agree to work for 12000 bushels of corn per year. You receive 1,000 bushels per month. You sell the corn to elevator for say $1,040 and you have say $75 of cost. You lose $35. If you did similar every month you would not pay income tax or SS tax. You do that for 40 years in a similar fashion you owe nothing and you get nothing. Under the social aspect of the system you could due to disability etc. probably qualify as some people do.
But to say you can't get out of the system is not correct.
I worked with a person who got paid monthly by having the milk check divided by an agreed upon amount every month. You need to own it and sell it as getting the money for 10% of the check or so is the same as cash. He quit doing that after he got married, had a family and found out his children would not receive any SS if he died. His wife was concerned and it is a good thing she was as he did die in his early 40s and yes his children did receive some SS. I also worked with small farmers who during tough years had negative income and we opted for the minimum quarter option so that their children would have coverage if needed.

Bryce

Bryce,

what percentage of Americans would likely fit into your exceptions?

Very, very few because they choose not to or don't want to. If you polled 100 people ask how many would say I want to opt out of SS and receive no benefits. I bet it is few. Those that I worked with that opted out that I still see once in a while have not been financially successful for the most part but for a multitude of reasons.
Typically many who stress over taxes and other expenses or costs etc., spend too much time and energy trying to save a dollar or two instead of figuring out how to earn more.

Bryce

Or more likely dead

The best I can tell from your post Bryce is that you claim barter is exempt from income tax and ssi. Not true according to the IRS.

I don't understand why one would not want to receive their invested earnings they paid into SS when they are of the age to do so. That's like just giving your hard earned money to the ducks on the street !

You also do understand that while waiting your turn to receive your earnings you were paying into it for some one else to receive their's, that's they way the program is set up to run.

It's basically a typical insurance lottery that bets against how much they have to pay due to your health and age when your able to receive it. But it has millions of people legally tied into it by law. So it's slanted to the insurance company of course by shear numbers.

People who try to get out of paying into it usually are those who feel they are not free, LOL and are being rode by the government into the ground, they really never improve their life and stay the same, however it was set up this way for some sort of funds to have to help feed one, not to live on, the same way your tax's are taken out for the IRS as if we were to do it on our own, every one knows that just would not happen. Pretty soon there would be so many home auctions on the blocks of this country due to seizure and liens that everything would collapse, it might any way,who knows.

It needs changes, and some work, however until it does become almost insolvent, as it is close to now, with out congress not having to have it them selves, there is not much incentive for congress to move it to the fore front for the rest of us !

Mine will be used to pay for my lake house and new boat.

I will begin receiving benefits later this year. In my online account I can see the totals of what both my employer and myself have paid into SS and Medicare. If I take the SS total and divide it by what I will recieve yearly I can see exactly how long before I am on “welfare”, “someone elses dime” etc. This would be without interest. If there is any?? I truly don’t know.

In my case my “free” money will begin in my 10th year. I would think that anyone’s amount paid in dictates your monthly check. So I would think it would be the same amount of years to reach the “free” money for everyone?? Anyone can look at theirs online. However, the closer your are to receiving the more reflective the amounts will be.

When SS was set up the life expectancy was much lower. The large majority of men especially, died before collecting it. Or before they got back what they paid in. The system as set up, knew that some would receive more than they paid in. It never was meant just as a get back what you AND your employer paid in and then it would cease.

For many years it worked. Population growth helped. More workers than receivers. Than the Baby Boomers came. Bunch more workers. Bunch more money. SS fund was built up. Of course Boomers started receiving. And population growth nearly stopped. However, the huge buildup would most likely have helped keep it solvent until the Boomers have died. That is a guess.

But, they robbed the fund. Now it is in trouble.

I do know that the amount paid in by myself and employer to SS and Medicare is huge. I was actually stunned.

I have a very nice IRA. Before I retired it was a 401K. I could see every dime I paid in and my employer matched. I see how much those monies grew to be. Had all the SS and Medicare monies that have been paid on my behalf had been invested I would not need the SS monthly check. And I could afford private insurance and not need Medicare.

By the way, how do I know I could afford private insurance. I have it now. My plan is what is known a Cadillac plan. It covers nearly everything 100%. No deductibles on anything but hospitalization. $500 on that per year regardless of how many separate stays. Very small copays. All testing free.

I also get a statement showing what I and my employer pay for this insurance per year. On my SS and Medicare paid in amounts and based on my IRA growth from similar payments by me and my employer, I could buy the insurance alone into my 90’s. And withdraw enough to live on from that invested amount, though kinda sparsely for the same amount of time

s.s. food stamps and farm welfare all come from the same general fund and deficit spending. yet for some reason it is always s.s. running out of money and not the other welfare progtrams

It wouldn't surprise me if they take ss before true welfare. We will probably be a socialist country before I retire anyway. (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)

We have been a socialist country since Franklin Delanore Roosevelt announced his New Deal.

Bryce,

how many (percentage of American workers) would QUALIFY for your exemptions?

You are wrong according to the link.

They are including what your employer paid in.

So you have to at a min. double the 13.1 years which means that it will take a min. of 26.2 years to get back what YOU paid in.

What your employer pays in comes out of his pocket, not yours.

So your employer is really getting screwed over, he not only pays more than half of your SS but all of his employees.
They are the biggest looser in SS. Of course there are way more employees than employers so that's why its setup that way.

your employer does pay half but the employee is still earning it. how could anybody stay in business if they didn't include ss in the cost of an employee? I bet your only driving cost is gas too?

Also your employer, cause he is self employed pays twice of what you pay for SS.

So for a self employed person working alone it takes 52.4 years to get back what he pays in.
That means if he retires at 65 he would have to live to 117.4 to get back JUST what he pays in.

If that guy employs anybody to help him then it takes him an additional 26.2/yrs per employee more.
So 1 employee = 78.6 yrs
10 employees = 314.4 years.

How is the employee earning it?
He is not, the only thing the employee earns is what is agreed upon as a wage for working for the employer.
Try hiring someone and taking both halves of the total SS out of employees paycheck. I'll bet you I know what would happen when the Gov't finds out.

Yes, the employer has to cover the cost of paying employer 1/2 of SS, but that cost comes out of what he has to charge his customers.
He raises the cost of his goods to cover it.
Just like he has to charge more to cover Business insurance, Workmans Comp, and all other costs along the way before he can get a dime back from sales.

Not really Dirty D
An employer does not raise the cost of his goods everytime he hires an employee. He know exactly what it costs per employee including all of the fringe you mentioned. If the projected value of the additional added production does not exceed the cost of the additional employee the hire does not happen. In the private sector if you're not earning it, salary + fringe, you won't be employed long.

Dirty D nailed it, I paid in SS for 26 years for my employees matching the 6.2 % they paid in, cost of doing business.

But would your business have lasted 26 years if the employees were costing 6.2% more than there employment was adding to the bottom line?

To party-first folks it doesn't matter what is done, it only matters which side does it.