Yep tjm, actually there are turkeys in few locations where the ground was too hilly to bulldoze out all the trees and tile all the water away into a straightened little creek that sends the water away ASAP. ... but then were getting to why there are no muskrats instead of pheasants.

I believe it is mostly do to the farming practices today. In the past areas that were just a little too hard to farm (bottom ground, meandering creeks, hilly ground) are now farmed to its fullest extent. There are some farmers in our area that own enough dirt moving equipment to have that as their 2nd job and many farmers in the area have hired them to level land or create ditches so that they can maximize the farmable land. Also weedy/brushy fence rows and creek bottoms is not enough cover to reliably hold pheasants over time. Have you ever seen fence rows and creek bottoms after a large snow with some wind, they become giant barren snow drifts...where do the pheasants go when that happens. Pheasants need big expanses of grass and brush to hold a sizable population. We own two chunks of CRP about 25 acres a piece that hold around 20 pheasants total between them so about .5 pheasants per acre of perfect habitat...thats not much. I do think the early mowing of nesting areas that someone mentioned above does also have a lot of credibility to it also...the turkeys eating the pheasant chicks not so much, they don't even use the same habitat for the most part. I rarely see turkeys in either of our CRP patches save for 2-3 times in the last 15 years and there is no lack of turkeys in the area

Many years ago I talked with a old timer and he said the decline of the prairie chicken etc. was do to the CRP land was not allow to burn and rejuvenate itself. That practice is the same today. I have no facts to support that statement. In most cases there are several factor that account for the decline of any species of bird or animal. JMO.

You guys in the bread basket I can understand and I agree about the farming practices. I spend a lot of time in those states working. I see it with my own eyes. However, that doesn't explain PA. That doesn't happen here. These are little family owned farms. Most way under 200 acres. Most grow for there own cattle and that's it. Things are the same as they have been since the 50's and 60's for the most part. Heck probably 50% of the farms around here are Amish and still no birds. (and no, the Amish haven't killed them all)

It's like I posted on page one in response to M. Magis.



Back in the heyday of pheasants in southeast Pa when t was nothing to flush multiple flocks of wild pheasants. There were many farms comprised of small crop fields bordered by thick, brushy fence lines. There was little weed control, we hunted the heck out of cut corn with great success because the fields were thick with foxtail and other grasses and held tons of birds.

All that is gone today. Many farms in my area are now housing developments and those left employ clean farming techniques. Loss of habitat definitely played a roll in pheasant decline and keeps them from developing a breeding population.

Not around here brother. It's Pheasant paradise if they would just move in. I know of a few hundred acres off the top of my head in different places that haven't been mowed since I moved here back in 2010. Most farmers do two hay cuts a year, same as they have been doing for decades. … I don't know, there are no easy answers or we would have birds. If they weren't such darn good eat'in, I wouldn't even care.

Whatever the reason i wonder if its the same reason in the decline of muskrats

That sounds exactly like around here. Back in the 70's and 80's we had Grouse in ok numbers, not like SE Ohio, and a few quail. Pheasants were also in decent numbers and although they were stocked in area's, the return rate was good and they would take flight when jumped. Then, BOOM. The quail were completely gone, the Grouse were few and far between, now completely gone and the Pheasants also gone. I think it's threefold. Firstly, I believe the apex predators put a hurt on them. When I was a kid you did not see a hawk on every telephone pole and we had good fox numbers but the hunters and trappers kept them in check. We had no yotes. Now between the yotes and the hawks, and the freakin eagles we lost more than just Pheasants, the list goes on. Secondly, The farming practices have changed much since the 70's, I've watched it change. Between the practices themselves to the amount of pesticides, and kind in use, to clearing any cover possible to plant more, has ruined the landscape for some of our critters. Thirdly, here anyway in my district, I think the DNR suck. I do not see at all them doing anything to resemble what they are supposed to be doing in way of making our small game more plentiful. I say lets face it. We Have more apex predators, some that need to be hunted which would require a change in the law. We have fewer hunter/trapper numbers, which can't keep up with the predators we're ALLOWED to hunt or trap. And IMO, we have a lot of DNR's, who are happy right now. In conclusion from this long winded post, be happy tellin your youngin's and grand babies stories about how great we had it back in the day. Because most likely, it'll never be so again.

I don't know. I wish I did. I love trapping rats but I'm a little to good at catching them and not leaving enough. I've trapped most of my farm ponds out. Farmers are happy as heck, I'm depressed.

Yeah, there are plenty of areas in the state that have excellent cover. Like the Wild Pheasant Recovery Areas and the SGL near my camp I mentioned before. They get plenty of birds too. Yet they fail to produce and multiply into a viable, wild breeding population. I don't know the answers either but suspect there are multiple reasons working together just like caused the initial extirpation. Loss of habitat in some areas is only one contributing factor.

My money is on the herbicides and pesticides. Of course it could be the trappers in your area just suck and aren't controlling the predator populations, LOL. Seriously though, if you'd get some guys together (if this even legal) pool a bunch of money and release a crapload pheasants (and quail too) into that paradise you describe then they should do pretty well. Oh, and start setting your raccoon traps on top of the taller poles in your area.

Ya know, I wonder if it could be the birds themselves? Maybe something was bred out of them? Something needed for wild survival? It wouldn't be the first time that has happened although it would be incredibly fast.

No, not imo, it's all about the management, if you have the habitat and food source.

It's been tried here in PA. Over the last 10-12 years the Game Commission has released thousands of wild birds from western states into prime habitat (Wild Pheasant Recovery Areas) and stopped hunting in those areas. I didn't work...

Lug, if that's the case, there has to be an underlying factor we're not seeing because that goes against nature.

I agree. Reports about the WPRA's mention small breeding populations that are confined to areas of several hundred acres of good cover surrounded by farmland where there is none and cite this as a limiting factor. After twelve years they do not consider the populations sustainable or huntable.

Pheasants need nesting cover ,brood cover and winter cover to get through each year .Nesting cover is grass that is not rough fields with goldenrod ,briars and reverting pasture and early reverting woodland . Brood cover is area that the young chicks can catch and eat bugs .This is where the pesticides can play a role .Those pesticides are poison . I do not think any of us would say it is OK to use it as a salad dressing . And winter cover is areas where they can avoid the worst of the cold and still find food to eat .Pheasants are territorial so having good cover does not make it possible to raise dozens of birds on that area .So much of the cover today is of no value to pheasants .When we had lots of birds we had marginal ,fair ,good and excellent cover everywhere .If it happens today it is the exception .

Don't forget the weather while nesting. Farmer spray to kill bugs, Pheasants eat bugs also. JMO

wasn't the muslims was it?

Very true Getting There, those are factors as well, I shouldn't have rounded up. I'm gonna break away here now. I want to die a freer man, than the day I was brought into this world. I wanted better for my babies in all ways, including the experiences of our outdoors. We all know there are issues, pesticides, herbicides, habitat, food sources etc. Are the DNR's creating habitat on public ground for pheasants, grouse, quail, rabbits? Not here. I haven't seen any small game in years on public ground except coon and groundhogs, possum and the occasional squirrel. And I'm out there in the woods, fields and river banks. Don't even get me started on our fisheries. We have to band together to figure a way to hold those in charge accountable because they do not have OUR way of life at interest. Mother Nature loves her own and will prosper them, we have to get back to her, jmo.