Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6537112
05/14/19 01:19 AM
05/14/19 01:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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I test all summer in areas I dont intend to trap. Make a set minus the trap but sift a big area around your test site for track verification. Trail cams shine in this situation
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6537321
05/14/19 02:11 PM
05/14/19 02:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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TDHP
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JMO, trial and error, test samples mock sets, punching holes etc all good stuff, actually great stuff, but at the end of the day you need to be able to ask yourself why you're adding X ingredients and be able to answer it. Not because jody the internet expert says you need to bury it for 3 years and add this that and the next. Especially if you're planning on making bait and lure and doing damage on the animals you're after. The magic dust just doesn't exist. I strongly believe that if you can learn the behavior, habits, diets, what drives and keeps the animals you're after ticking. You will find that coming up with a formula will simplify itself and become easier to understand and all the magic verbal judo crap is just that...crap. When it comes to testing I wouldn't test just in one particular season or area either or a couple of months here and there, I trap year round doing adc so I test year round and often. During my travels I'll stop on public land and punch holes and in certain areas drop a cam or two. I check them periodically and I'll leave a cam out for weeks at a time. I test one ingredient at a time, it's time consuming but effective, variety in a bait is key for me and I don't build bait and lure to my nose. The animals build it by their response. The bait and lure should appeal to the animal throughout the year not just a few months here and there. The objective is to call an animal in and then manipulate it into demonstrating a variety of responses which would in theory afford the trapper an edge in a successful catch. Trial and error is ideal, but you need to have an understanding between the ingredient and the interest. Some people just need an animal to walk up or by and can successfully trap their critters, others need them extra responses and movement at the set. I don't test side by side in the beginning stages because it would be virtually impossible to determine which hole got the animals attention. Final product different story, I'll test side by side or a few feet apart like in this picture. I wouldn't waste your time trying to copy a formula either jmo, it's a complete waste of time if you are trying to mimic one. Study the animals you are after and you won't need to to do all the magic dances and dig up grave secrets to attract animals. Cams are a gem and come in handy, bait and lure are the easiest things to put together, but location and population is going to determine the outcome. I would keep it simple and straight forward while placing more emphasis on ones trapping ability along with locating the animals you are looking to trap. I spend lots of time in the woods picking up new things everyday. Books, videos, forum archives etc are great, but you should want to know why you are doing something and not just doing it going through the motions. This is all just JMO and a little bit on how I like to do things. Don't let people dictate your moves, “Welcome the haters and learn to use the criticism as fuel and you will never run out of energy.”
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6537490
05/14/19 08:13 PM
05/14/19 08:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,871 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
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russ carmen wrote you need to get good at trapping before you try to make your own bait and lure. I think he is right
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6537682
05/15/19 03:05 AM
05/15/19 03:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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Danny I agree to that to some extent but what exactly is the definition of good self confidence that you can consistently catch your target spieces? Or is it someone else opinion of your abilitys. I have to face the bitter truth every year my state isn't a high number state. But I feel I do better then average. Other then last season! I truely enjoy making my own stuff. I'll never sell commercially I feel it would take away all the enjoyment. Carmans books are the bomb. I learned a lot from Charles book on evaluating lures and baits as well.
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6537737
05/15/19 07:40 AM
05/15/19 07:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050 Mass
TDHP
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The magic dust just doesn't exist. I strongly believe that if you can learn the behavior, habits, diets, what drives and keeps the animals you're after ticking. You will find that coming up with a formula will simplify itself and become easier to understand and all the magic verbal judo crap is just that...crap. The objective is to call an animal in and then manipulate it into demonstrating a variety of responses which would in theory afford the trapper an edge in a successful catch. Trial and error is ideal, but you need to have an understanding between the ingredient and the interest. JMO, trial and error, test samples mock sets, punching holes etc all good stuff, actually great stuff, but at the end of the day you need to be able to ask yourself why you're adding X ingredients and be able to answer it. Books, videos, forum archives etc are great, but you should want to know why you are doing something and not just doing it going through the motions. I would keep it simple and straight forward while placing more emphasis on ones trapping ability along with locating the animals you are looking to trap. Understanding or coming across an ingredient that does better than another and learning the interest between the two isn't rocket science, nor should one think that. ^^^^^^ is easy to do. Never seen so many people jump through hoops to do something so basic. Bait is the easiest part of the process, getting the animal to commit is a lot harder in some cases if you have a lot going on at a set.
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: TONY.F]
#6537738
05/15/19 07:41 AM
05/15/19 07:41 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Danny I agree to that to some extent but what exactly is the definition of good self confidence that you can consistently catch your target spieces? Or is it someone else opinion of your abilitys. I have to face the bitter truth every year my state isn't a high number state. But I feel I do better then average. Other then last season! I truely enjoy making my own stuff. I'll never sell commercially I feel it would take away all the enjoyment. Carmans books are the bomb. I learned a lot from Charles book on evaluating lures and baits as well. Why care what others think? You filling your traps year after year? You happy with the results of what you're doing?
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: Jonesie]
#6537936
05/15/19 01:38 PM
05/15/19 01:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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The right location and a good trapper can make an OK bait /lure look great. A bad location and bad trapper can make a great lure or bait look bad. Same with testing Care to elaborate? In theory due to the high quality of "great authentic ingredients" used in "expert" formulas that claim to call animals in from miles, I'm purdy sure location and numbers shouldn't even be a factor based off of the claims from a lot of products out there. If these formulas are so "great" why are so many changing them up? What's the difference between a great trapper that has better success using an OK bait or lure... and that is all opinion..than a product that is supposed to be a "great" bait and lure but doesn't have the notoriety as the "great" product but also doesn't have the success rate in catches using the "great" product? Also what is a great bait and lure? The bait and lure I use makes me money on every job I do and helps to put fur in the traps that are put out during the trapping season with the kids. That's like a ford and chevy argument. Bait and lure are preference, verbal judo works good on some folks who believe it.
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6538156
05/15/19 06:54 PM
05/15/19 06:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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My question is can you expand on that a little bit? All kidding aside, you're better off putting traps out there and testing your product. Test test test, and when you think you're done testing, test some more. Them animals will let you now what they like. I'm not a fan of dry baits. Moisture retaining bait has a few more benefits to it. I'm not an expert nor do I believe in experts when it comes to bait and lure, but I trap the heck out of raccoons with this bait year round. IMO, that's what a good, great or whatever else you want to call it bait should do. It should appeal to the animal throughout the year.
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: tbn]
#6538163
05/15/19 07:02 PM
05/15/19 07:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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I thought it was will catch every animal that walks by,lol. That's catchy!
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: Jonesie]
#6538429
05/16/19 04:27 AM
05/16/19 04:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,084 WI - Wisconsin
AJE
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trapper
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The right location and a good trapper can make an OK bait /lure look great. A bad location and bad trapper can make a great lure or bait look bad. Same with testing Makes sense.
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: AJE]
#6538463
05/16/19 07:21 AM
05/16/19 07:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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The right location and a good trapper can make an OK bait /lure look great. A bad location and bad trapper can make a great lure or bait look bad. Same with testing Makes sense. It does? It looks good on a thread until you have to explain it, which is why I'm looking for someone with the "expertise" to explain it. Care to take a stab at it due to it making sense to you? Example...I don't know what you target for animals but lets say you are a "great" trapper and I believe you probably are. You purchase "great" bait that everyone is raving about, but you are having little to no success with it. How "great" is that bait to you? On the other hand you are very successful with OK bait....what's the determining factor between a good bait and an OK bait? It's been stated on this forum and many alike that some of the "greats" didn't do well at all using "great" bait that many talk about. We know animals are unpredictable and not all animals will take to particular odors, that's an easy out. Can you elaborate on the difference?
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: Jonesie]
#6538643
05/16/19 01:02 PM
05/16/19 01:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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The right location and a good trapper can make an OK bait /lure look great. A bad location and bad trapper can make a great lure or bait look bad. Same with testing Theres the magic in a bottle right there! Why build a mall were no one goes?I wasn't trying to rile anyone up I just think a lot of guys sell themselves and there skill short ! I do what I do and it works for me and the few others I help .Learned along time ago there is no one thing that works 100 % 100% of the time.
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6538728
05/16/19 03:23 PM
05/16/19 03:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,892 NNY
080808
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NNY
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: danny clifton]
#6538888
05/16/19 09:41 PM
05/16/19 09:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 649 tennessee
clintp1971
OP
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OP
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tennessee
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russ carmen wrote you need to get good at trapping before you try to make your own bait and lure. I think he is right How will I know when I’m good enough to try, can I count on you guys to tell me??????
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539002
05/17/19 05:24 AM
05/17/19 05:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,871 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,871
williamsburg ks
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What I think, and I believe what Carmen meant was confidence.
If you set a trap and your confident that a coyote will find it, and if your confident its much more likely than not it will get caught, you are at a place to trust the results of your coyote attractants effectiveness testing.
Last edited by danny clifton; 05/17/19 05:26 AM.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539177
05/17/19 12:29 PM
05/17/19 12:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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TDHP
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How will I know when I’m good enough to try, can I count on you guys to tell me?????? When it's all said and done it doesn't matter what any personality on an internet forum says, if what you are doing makes sense to you, and is putting fur in the traps. Then you don't need anyone's approval. jmo Believe in what you're doing and have enough confidence in your ability to effectively put together a bait and lure without doubting its capabilities to attract the target animal. No doubt you will have some fails, but coming back from a fail being able to stand on your own two feet and accepting it will make room for success. Come back with an update, hopefully it isn't 3 + years from now. Being able to pick up and use anything you make and know it will do what it was intended to do is a beautiful thing.
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539232
05/17/19 02:33 PM
05/17/19 02:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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clint your already good enough as long as you have the desire and burning curiosity you will figure it out! As long as your not scared of failure you should be fine. Me personally I welcome failure that is one of the major hitters in figuring out stuff. Nothing ventured nothing gained!
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539236
05/17/19 02:49 PM
05/17/19 02:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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trapper
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Some failures will also be wins! I made a mouse bait 10 years ago I thought was mediocre it failed for me gave it to a friend that trapped totally different then my style and he cleaned up! to this day he still begs for more. Come to find out it shined in timber Which I try and avoid
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539247
05/17/19 03:11 PM
05/17/19 03:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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Yes sir I felt exactly the same way when I first started making my own. I always backed mine up with a proven formula double mouse hole set then the process of elimination started/ Remove the proven to see if it was mine or the combo of the two. Some times the combo proved more deadly then either one as a stand alone. With that said I it only proved complex formulas were a necessary evil
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539541
05/17/19 11:12 PM
05/17/19 11:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
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TONY.F
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I used proven baits till it was sink or swim time ! Now ive got plenty of confidence in my abilitys and what I make. But if you test as much as you say you should no interest and energy they exert to get it are totally different. So in my learning stages I wanted to assure my self that I would be looking at bare dirt on a daily basis. The fastest way to lose confidence is checking empty sets every time. Sure they are curious by nature but they don't just give up there hides with one tiny appealing smell
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539827
05/18/19 01:36 PM
05/18/19 01:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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I don't think its one bit silly! saying that is putting all your faith in one product alone! Never believed in the all the eggs in one basket concept And yes it is rather easy to get a yote to investigate, ive seen in the snow were they sniffed a cigarette butt! But that don't mean I will start putting pall malls in my dirt holes.
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539896
05/18/19 04:45 PM
05/18/19 04:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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TDHP
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It’s a good thing bait and lure are supposed to provide variety, and that one product could provide a lot of it aye? Now forgive me for my ignorance but aren’t the ads pertaining to bait and lure from the wizards with all the knowledge that sprinkle magic juju in their bottles geared to animals “investigating” the product? Things like “ cant resist investigating, come to this one, will make your animal stay around the set, will collect animals, can count on any time of year, investigate this invest that”? The list goes on with the “greatness” of ads. Isn’t that the whole purpose of bait and lure, is to get an animal to that location to “investigate” its odor? Digging, rubbing, rolling after it’s dug up? After the animal is there, if the trapper can’t seal the deal, that isn’t a bait and lure problem. I don’t sit in a bait and lure room with a tinfoil hat on, nor do I set jobs up with one on. I’m not in agreeance with the need to use magic or whatever other bs spins that folks need to chalk up when it comes to bait and lure, it’s unnecessary. I simply allow the animal to tell me what interests them by their responses. How many of these “great” bait and lures sit on trappers shelves, to have another purchased product placed in front of it because it isn’t getting the job done for the individual? Comes down to what works for the individual. “Complex” lures imo isn’t the answer. With ADC work the trapper is absolutely certain that his target is present; homeowners are showing contractors exactly where the critters have been seen. Nothing adc about testing bait and lure out in the field, you either attract them or not. ^^^lol Simple concept.... step one. Build a bait or lure based off of responses from the target animal not off your nose. When testing bait and lure...it has nothing to do with ADC or knowing where the animal is. Step 2. Punch holes and place bait in them. Step 3. Trail cam if you want if not check them for activity. I don't test side by side until a final product has been put together. Even then, results speak for themselves Step 4.. Do this on a consistent basis through out the year regardless of season, then repeat process. You can come up with any excuse you want on why one needs magic in a bottle, it's bs. I believe you will get more out of putting in the work than relying on some magic juju. This is just how I like to do things, the "experts" probably have way "cooler" ways.
Last edited by TDHP; 05/18/19 05:00 PM.
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6539907
05/18/19 05:17 PM
05/18/19 05:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
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tdhp I don't buy into the hype! Personally id rather know a little about whats in side the bottle instead of what its supposed to do outside of it. Joe you might be correct! The year I tried that mouse bait our vole population apexed that year. I was trapping open ag ground the other guy was trapping timber and ridges. So id say your assumption was correct they was probably just sick of eating rodents in my area But ill never compare fur trapping to adc trapping! Totally different monster
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6546408
05/30/19 07:30 AM
05/30/19 07:30 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 90 Alaska
DucksandDogs
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2010
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Alaska
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How will I know when I’m good enough to try, can I count on you guys to tell me?????? Who cares? If you’re willing to miss fur in order to give it a try because it’s something that seems interesting to you and you’d like to learn more about it, let her rip. To clarify - I’m not saying you WILL miss fur, I’m just saying you have to be willing to take that risk while you develop your own formulas. If you aren’t making a living off of trapping and you’re doing it for enjoyment, and you think working on your own baits and lures will enhance that enjoyment, get after it. It should always be fun. When rules are applied, fun levels decrease.
Lifetime member - ATA, AFTA
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Re: Question for TDHP about testing lures
[Re: clintp1971]
#6546768
05/30/19 09:34 PM
05/30/19 09:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050 Mass
TDHP
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My question is can you expand on that a little bit? Do you just make mock sets? How close to each othe? What time of year ? Specifically do you test in the summer months? How often do you “ check” them? Thought it was pretty straight forward, no tricks are involved. Baits and lures are a tool to aid the trapper not do a magic trick. I've always typed ^^^and never believed in the magic. I believe if more people would just get out and test they would figure it out as well. I also believe in common sense, which I know is hard to except when so many are lead to believe in wizardry when it comes to bait and lure. If one odor did it all there would be no need for variety, and it would take all the fun out of trying to outsmart the critters when it came to bait&lure while introducing a trap setup.
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