And it's so original. Just had to come from a great mind. Somebody must have started to melt down. Sounds like something that would happen to a snowflake.

I am not knocking trades, but I do think we are foolish to suggest that all our problems are solved if 95% of our young folks went off to trade school and abandoned the college system entirely. Trade jobs like anything else ebb and flow. Also, I can't help but wonder what automation will do to some of these trade jobs in the future?

It really comes down to drive. I know successful people with liberal arts degrees, just as I know successful ones in blue collar trade jobs. It all depends on the person. Hard to stand in the way of someone driven to succeed.

Personally, I would like to see schools do a better job of having real world discussions with students about their future. Some are a better fit for college, while others should explore trades. I am not confident all schools systems fully discuss these options with students, and help them to make the right choices. Someone that clearly likes working with their hands should probably be steered towards trade jobs, especially if they aren't the best classroom student. On the flip side, kids doing well in the traditional classroom with little interest in trades should probably be prepped for college. It's good to have both. But, this seems to be another issue some (on both sides) seem to want to make an us versus them thing for no reason. There is room for both blue and white collar workers in this country.

Additionally, I would like to see schools (and many parents) put forth more education on financial management and debt responsibility. Many of these trade workers may not have student loans to worry about, but how many have maxed credit cards, bought more house than they could really afford, drive a fully loaded new truck, have new UTVs, ATVs, boats, etc? Great if one can afford that stuff, but the reality is the amount of debt taken on by many in our society is sad. No one saves for anything anymore, they simply find another loan or credit card to take advantage of, knocking them further into debt.
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When I was in school in the 90s they didnt push it, because they didnt have it, I learned from my grandfather and father because thats what they did for a living with farming. Now ICCC has a diesel tech program again same as what dad went through in the early 70s so there is a push back to it here in north central Iowa.

I never suggested anything close to that 95% of young people should abandon college and go off to trade school. We obviously need young people to do both.

Keith

And there are those who do well in both worlds.

I managed to squeak out of the California University system with a summa cum laude diploma. BUT I got a lot more more pleasure and money using my hands AND brain in the construction consulting industry.

The problem that I see first hand is that high schools try to shove kids through a funnel and send them on to college where they immediately flunk out. This IS NOT their fault. They are completely unprepared for a college curriculum and they have no one to blame but those hacks in the high school administration who pushed them somewhere they didn't belong.

Some kids belong in college and some don't . It's that simple. We do a great disservice to those who DON'T belong there, by trying to make them fit the mold

Some times both dovetail together very well. In my case I grew up milking cows, feeding youngstock, handling machinery, planting and harvesting crops and yes cleaning a lot of pens. That hands on background fit with my dairy science and ecology classes and I was able to become an instructor teaching dairy management, farm and financial management and becoming a agriculture agent, counselor etc. I found the mesh of both very rewarding physically, emotionally, mentally and yes financially. Not bad to retire and walk away from work that one loved to do and start something new.

Bryce

This sums it up perfectly. This is why I have a great deal of respect for Mike Rowe, he really gets it and is trying to right that wrong. He's helping not only a lot of kids but also filling those gaps in the service industry that need filling.

Through unearned financial aid and socialist programs , universities have cranked out countless proffesional morons.

Its all about a piece of paper at the end of the day

Like you I guess I am pretty good in both worlds. I grew up doing blue collar farm work, and joined the service right out of high school. Plenty of hands on work. After a few years I realized the advantages of an education and started taking classes when I could. I now have a BA and an MA, all accomplished while on active duty. I am also happy to say I don't have one dime in student debt. While the degrees were not necessary for me to advance in my military career, I know they didn't hurt me. In fact I am pretty certain it helped put me over the edge when I made E9, as things were very competitive. I am sure it helped in my selection as a Chief Warrant Officer as well. While some may call my degrees worthless pieces of paper, I know they have helped me and I am proud of them.

Sure I can work with my hands pretty well, but for me I am kind of looking forward to using my degrees when I retire from the Navy in a few years. For me at least, this seems like a road I want to take. I also understand my interests and career path is not for everyone. That's the beauty of this country...we are all free to pursue what makes us happy.

What kind of started me off on this sidebar is that it seems every direction I turn I am seeing and hearing the chants about trades. I completely get we need some in the trades, but not all. As I said in an earlier post I think some trades will be changed, if not phased out with coming technologies. Of course the technologies themselves should bring about jobs, albeit ones of a different flavor. But regardless, there remains many good jobs today that are only available to those with a degree.

I do think schools are getting a little better about not pushing everyone to college. I see more technical high schools popping up. I actually think in many cases the parents are the biggest factor in children attending college. Whether we like it or not, there remains a stigma about many blue collar jobs in this country. Many parents simply don't want their children to do anything but attend the "finest" of universities and so the children are shoved off to college. For them it's all about their own ego having their kid(s) attend these colleges. These are the people that feel their status in their little social clique would be damaged if their child was off getting their hands dirty in a trade. Not saying I agree with them, but we all know this is sadly still reality. Many politicians have been on the trade school kick as of late as well, yet the majority of those same politicians are still sending their own children off to four year colleges. Interesting isn't it.

BTW. Just because I seem to have taken the college side in this debate, I certainly see the beauty of the other side as well. My step-son, who just graduated high school this past spring, is about to start work as a machinist. He received training for this in a vocational technical high school he attended for a few years. He likes that kind of work, and my wife and I are happy he has found something he likes to do. We are both proud of him. As I said before, find whatever it is that makes you happy and give it your all.

I can't argue with any of that !

One thing I have found is that even if you are working with your hands...the fact that you have that 'piece of paper' means a lot more money for the same amount of work.

Ken/Cameron although it's hard to argue with many of your points I do agree that college is being over sold,

There are too many variables and the price of college is becoming insane. My son started college this fall, he is only a few credits short of his two year degree thanks to a program that MN has that allows kids to take online college accredited courses in high school. Even so if it wasn't for his epilepsy I may have likely encouraged him to come to work with me

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" why would one go into debt for a PhD in lesbian dance theory when they could learn a trade that will pay them well for their life time ?"

Maybe because she loves and lives for lesbian dance theory. With the PhD, she might make a living teaching lesbian dance theory, of maybe just practicing at it will enrich her life.

Size of a paycheck isn't everything. Both of my kids graduated college with liberal arts degrees, and both still practice their chosen art, music--and both are self-supporting. Our son has his own business teaching guitar, and does well for his family.

So I'll make the case for defense of a liberal arts degree. It will enrich your life if nothing else, and will not hurt your chances of finding a job.

Jim

After all, you’ll need a good one to pay back those student loans. lol

My oldest son finished his masters last May. He is now working as a Physician's Assistant earning very near 100K as a starting base salary.
He also plays piano, guitar, saxophone very well and even plays a cello fairly well.
He just turned 23 last month and is earning a pretty good living doing something he finds challenging and rewarding, both personally and financially. One of the things he hoped his major would allow is the chance to live in an area where he could hunt, fish, and do all the other outdoor hobbies he has grown up doing. He was recruited by a hospital that was the perfect fit.

In his teen years he helped me often when I was doing a lot of remodeling and building cabinets. For a while, he talked about doing such work for a living. I did not discourage him, but I made sure he took college prep and advanced placement courses in high school "just in case" he changed his mind. I'm glad he did and so is he.

College is not for everyone. But, for some, it is exactly what suits them best.

Nothing wrong with that James as long as it pays enough to support ones chosen lifestyle and the individual doesn't expect the taxpayer to subsidize those choices.

There's definately a different view point when it comes to the younger folks [late 20s early 30s] vs folks my age [mid 50s] and in a way, I envy the younger folks because they tend to live in the present moment, they are not constantly thinking 20 years out like I always have.

Of interest, the major corporations have taken notice of this, and have responded accordingly by providing lower wages and less benefits, and the younger folks are perfectly fine with that.
They are also perfectly fine with living together - splitting the rent and chores numerous ways, in some cases even mortgages... and they are very happy living their lives together.

In the end, that is what matters.

Being able to live a life where one is happy, and being able to live that life on their terms.

I look at many of my co-workers at the plant, who with endless overtime and no vacations make well over $150k so they can afford their surburban mcmansions and live lives of misery.
I on the other hand chose to live in a more poorer section of town, working class... and I never work any OT and take off as much time as possible to the point where I am almost considered a part time worker, and in the end I ask who's better than me in that plant....

Not too many, that's for sure.

Then, the endless discussions on retirement - and how the majority wants to work well into their 70s so they can maximize their benefits [if they live long enough, which I am never at a loss to remind them of...] and you should see the looks on their faces when I tell them I'm out at 55, I'll start collecting my pension and get a job at the garden center either at Lowes or Home Depot simply because I can since my mortgage on my little home is paid off now.

So, as James mentioned alternative careers are the wave of the future.
Out here in CT, if don't think outside the box today - you can forget about ever getting ahead with all the corporations moving up to Mass, where oddly enough they pay higher taxes than here in CT but reap the benefits of a more talented work force that is younger, smarter, and has no interest in leaving metropolitian areas such as Boston, and in fact they don't even want to own or drive a car !!

Nothing wrong with that, in retrospect I do miss living in NYC for that reason alone, but NYC has become completely unaffordable for someone like me.

When I was younger, living in NYC my plan was to major in Photography and be a photo journalist.
That was in 1982, but things changed... and I shifted gears and went to school to learn about aviation.

In retrospect this was a very smart move because I've had a very successful career, which in turn allows me to do the things i really want to do.

So, many good points made in this comment here, and I am proud of your son.

I think public financial aid distribution should be based on job placment and the percentage of students working in the field studied ,and the percentage of successful repayment of student loans by the past graduates of each program

I agree, Bigfoot. There should also be something done to lower the interest rates on school loans.

Why?