Anyone know much about this type of rattlesnake? They've been documented in my county before. I recently attended a forestry meeting and was surprised to hear that some research has been done and they figured out there's more around than I thought. Fortunately I've never seen 1 (that I know of anyway). I've never heard of anyone in Wi getting bit by this poisonous snake though. I guess they like wet areas, but they like to sun themselves on dikes, too.

Rare and endangered in Mo Last I heard, likely extirpated.

Little, cool coloring, we have a few in southeast areas of our state.
Jim

We have some around lake huron, usually around rocky areas , have never seen one. old243

They are not poisonous. You can eat them. They are venomous though.

There is reportedly quite a population of them over here in the Black River bottoms.

Moosetrot

we have them here

We have them in southern Michigan.I saw a couple while fishing in the Fenton area,thats a few miles outside of Flint.

They are protected hear in PA.

They're also documented in the Chippewa River bottoms downriver of Durand. A buddy and I hunt spring turkeys there sometimes, so we're always looking closely before we snuggle up against a tree or tuck into brush if we have a tom closing in.

We have them here in limited numbers, mean little suckers from what I understand.

We have them here in the Cicero Swamp.

What?

Massasauga Rattlers are found throughout Michigan's Lower Peninsula. I have crossed paths with them a time or three in my day. First time was in the late 1950's. I was with my father, who had gone down the road to visit a neighboring farmer friend. The fellow was back in his woods buzzing up firewood with a buzz rig. As we walked along the trail my father suddenly stopped me, then reached down and tail-grabbed a snake off the ground. A quick snap and he had a dead rattler. The snake had just swallowed something and was apparently unable to strike.....either that or my father was very drunk. Each possible, but the latter much more likely! I have the rattles from that snake yet today, over 60 years later. I have eaten their meat in the past, it was tasty. They are now a protected specie here, tasty or not. My experience would leave one to believe they are a somewhat timid snake, although I did have one coil up and rattle at me when I closed in on it. I mounted one years ago for a guy that found one when it buzzed at he and his wife when they were a good way from it, but nearly all others I know of wouldn't rattle unless they were poked at and bothered. I think they are neat as heck.

There's a big difference between poisonous and venomous.
Poisonous = transmitted by touch.
Venomous = transmitted by bite or sting.

There's a fairly concentrated population right near my office in Windsor, ON and like was said a good amount around the Bruce peninsula and into Parry sound.

never seen one outside of a zoo, even then they tend to hide in the enclosure away from the glass and people most of the time you have to look very hard to find them , they are supposed to be the most shy of all the rattlers.

south west Wisconsin is supposed to have them but I have just never seen one.

Got'em here but I haven't seen one in a while.

I’ve removed a few from my yard and garden over the years. I just take them across the road. I have a good amount of wetlands around me

No big deal. Not deadly

Got bit by one three years ago, had one hit my boot last week, and had more close calls with them than I can count. are literally swimming in them here.

Bite isn't terrible. 24 hrs in intensive care, and that was about it

Seen two at the local state park where I ruck hike. Lots of snakes around here....

We have quite of few of them in central Ohio … Mostly in and around wetlands. I personally seen one at that was when I was about 7 or 8 at the fish hatchery ponds. They tell me the are prevalent in that area.

Garry-

Yup,

I used to live in Bridgeport in Oneida Park in the 1960's and we always found in our back yards.

They got chopped up fairly regularly by my dad's hand pushed rotary lawn mower.

They are an endangered specie now and heavily protected in New York State.

They are also found out in Genesee County in The Bergen Swamp.

I used to go out to the Cicero Swamp Wildlife Management area off Island Road

near Northern Boulevard and find they relatively easily.

This area is now posted against trespassing and is now a rattlesnake sanctuary.

w

Are they fairly large?

No, not big.

Most I've seen were the size of a large garter snake.

They are also known as the pygmy rattle snake.

w

The Masasauga and Pygmy rattlers are related but are not the same species.Pygmy rattlers are found further South.North Carolina is about as far North as Pygmy rattlers occur.

Pygmy Rattlesnake is merely the localized name by which

they are sometimes referred to here in New York State.

Probably because it's easier to pronounce pygmy than Massasauga.

I did not intend to assign any taxonomic value to the local name.

w

Pygmy and Massassauga are the two branches of the Sistrusis genus rattlesnakes in the US. All our other larger rattlesnakes are in the Crotalus genus

I didn't realize the Massasauga has such a big range, geographically in the USA.

24 hours in intensive care would suck! We have them in Indiana, I have never seen one and have looked. They are protected here also. We have timbers and copperheads in southern Indiana and they are protected too.

[quote=walleyed][quote=Taximan]
[quote=walleyed]

]

Pygmy Rattlesnake is merely the localized name by which they sometimes referred here in New York State.

Probably because it's easier to pronounce pygmy than Massasauga

I did not intend to assign any taxonomic value to the local name.


w
[/

Sorry,Walleyed.I should have figured that.

Are they fairly large?

The largest I have seen was 40 inches long. It got ran over by a car on a sandy road.
I have seen several in the lower 30 inch range. A friend of mine had a cigar box with
the bottom covered with rattles from them.

They seem to be common along the Ausable River in Michigan.
In the past I have ran into so many of them that I will not go back to those areas.

Ever eat the head to prove this theory?
(I too, enjoy semantic banter.)

The Eastern massasauga is a small rattlesnake, typically under 30" They've been listed as Threatened under the Endangered Species Act as of this year. They can be found in Wisconsin, but they are habitat specific, and sometimes a group of them can be found in close proximity of their hibernacula. They spend the winter underground in wetlands, and then during summer move out into wooded habitats close to these wetlands. Bites are rare, but they can bite if stepped on, or molested. Normal treatment is Crofab, which is used for other North American Pit Vipers too.

I took these pics of one I found sunning in early spring, a few miles from my house. Got some nice video and audio of it "rattling" (more like buzzing), left it alone and continued shed hunting.....







-NC

I live just south of the MI line in the glacial lakes region in IN.. Wouldn't say they are common here, but our only poisonous snake and in the right areas they can be found.. Neighbor tore down an old chicken house years ago when I was a kid and found somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 of them wintered up underneath..They favor the buck brush/cat tail swamp areas it seems. I've run into them several times over the years, but thankfully no serious interaction.

Thanks for the Photos Northcountry!

In school and throughout wildlife training, we used Peterson Filed Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians along with the other books in this series. Here is the Pages showing rattlesnakes. They list 2 pigmy and 2 Massasauga. They are not the same snake. They do belong to the same Genera, Sistrurus. All of the other Rattles shown are of the Genera Crotalus.

Although, there are two of both the Pigmy and the Massasauga, both of each, are of the same species but of a different sub-species. If you want to get more specific for your own knowledge, I would suggest looking them up on the web. As it states in the book, any of the illustrations shown, may be a slight variation in pattern and color in any given area.

Garry-

The venom of all north american pit vipers is perfectly safe to consume. The venoms are mainly hemotoxic requiring injection into the bloodstream to be effective. They are also broken down in both the cooking process and by the stomachs acids.

Yea,,and its full of muskrats also.

[quote=BigBob]Rare and endangered in Mo Last I heard, likely extirpated.[/quote

I was bit by one near Columbia way back in the 1950's while a student at MU. Spent the night in intensive care, which was not necessary. It was the University clinic's first snake bite and they wanted to make a production out of it.

Jarhead

Protected in Ohio. Never had a problem with them except when trying to catch one. The big ones usually take off at the first sign of intrusion (unless cornered). The small ones have great markings.

My brother and I caught 2 on a weekend Boy Scout camp out back in the late 70’s at the Eldon Hazlet state park on the east side of Carlyle lake in southern Illinois. We took them home and had them in a Habitrail hamster cage on the kitchen table when our mom and little sister came in. Little sis ran up and pecked on the plastic with her finger and one of them snakes hammered it and Mom about had a heart attack! That was one of the worst butt chewins I ever saw my Dad get in my life. My brother and I still laugh our butts off about that one every now and then.

Wisconsin is doing a lot to try to manage & increase the massasaga population. I think there was already enough but they're really trying to increase the population, at least in 8 core geographic areas. Tonight I went to a presentation put on by Rori, the states Massasauga expert. It was interesting but the main reason I went was to learn more about where not to step.

Yeah I was surprised tonight to learn that they aren't as long as I would have thought, though they are fat in the middle. It's scary how well they blend in with their surroundings.

If you get some cool pics- they keep the anti-venom at the Milwaukee County Zoo.

Around here they are mostly in marshy areas that haven’t been developed, drained, sprayed, etc.
Seem to like crayfish holes for getting through winters. Not a very large snake but definitely a wide one relative to their length. The rattle is interesting. Not a constant buzz but more of a flip or flick of that tail I’d call it.
In early warm spring when they come out driving along old gravel roads through habitat in dark you find them once and awhile on the road. They really flatten out to hide, interesting snake.
Jim

There are some at Burchard Lake in SE Nebraska . Some University ppl know where a denning site is and they poke around there in the spring.

So the Wisconsin DNR is trying to increase their population. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I hope some of the wolves get bit.

Massasauga bites are not like cottonmouth snakes, diamond back, prairie or timber rattler bites. More like copperhead bites. Not good, get so sick you wanna die maybe, but rarely cause death.

AJE and everybody that commented -

Thank you for the thread and the education. Excellent topic!

Jack

Loess Hills National wildlife refuge(formerly squaw creek) near Mound City, MO has some, they had to call off some controlled burns there in college due to them being present.

Seen a few in my lifetime. Have a few timbers around as well

From the various comments they sound to be similar to their pygmy cousins down here in being somewhat localized in their distribution.

While range maps show pygmies ranging statewide in Georgia you won't easily find them just anywhere. Or at least I've never found one in Central GA. But I'm told by those in the know that when found they can be locally common in those locations. I do know from experience that are more common in south Georgia and Alabama. I can only guess though as to habitat specifics.

They're here in Michigan too. I am kind of disappointed that I've never seen one. May have to make a trip south and do some wandering, I think there are more in southern MI

All over southwest Kansas. Find a prairie dog hole and you’ll find them. Multiple thems.

Yes, they sure are. Unreal, I know.

Coyote Clayton , you sure your not seeing prairie rattlers? Prairie rattlers get 2 1/2 - 3 feet long. i caught one once that was 4. A Massasauga rarely gets over 2.

My family had a farm that was infected with them. When we bailed hay we turned each each bail over before picking it up.
They would get picked up buy the baler and would be half in the bail and half out.

Prairie rattler bite is bad news for humans. Need to get to a hospital. Dogs hogs and horses usually take it pretty good. They den in old Prairie dog holes a lot. They can den in any suitable hole but they are common around dog towns. See them out in the day a lot in spring and fall. Go underground when it gets cold at night then lay out in front of a hole in the sun during the day. Just the opposite in the heat of summer. In summer they often just shade up someplace. Traveling away from the dog town. Prairie dogs are known to bury them. Snakes can not dig a hole. They dont eat adult prairie dogs as they are too big.

Gary there are pockets east of Lincoln too along the old salt marsh areas. The more the land gets developed though the more they disappear.

Pretty common northwest of Topeka. I never saw one over about 18-20”. This one was next to the foundation of my house. Kinda hard to tell the scale but those are just normal blades of fescue lawn grass.

Interesting. I’ve never seen one nor did I know we even had them here. I figured they were all in North Ga. I will say over the last 10 years or so I see fewer rattlesnakes than in my entire lifetime before that. That’s all I used to see were Diamondbacks, Canebrakes, a few copperheads, and even fewer cottonmouths.
I’ll now see maybe 1-2 Diamondbacks or Canebrakes crossing the roads alive, but see many many cottonmouths and hardly any copperheads anymore. That includes private and public lands.

Saw a roadkill copperhead about a month ago. Had my grandkids with me. County road no traffic so stopped and let them get out and have a good look so they can avoid any live ones they see.

Looking at pic I may have seen one before. But mistook it for a milk snake ??

Common practice for most all DNR agencies is to promote something that most people don't want.

Does Wolves come to mind? Or Mountain Lions in Michigan and Wisconsin!

Exactly my thought and concern. I was surprised how much WDNR is trying to increase their population. Yet there are so many other DNR divisions that are underfunded due to budget crunches.

Hmmm. Map says they are in western kansas. Maybe the map is mistaken.



Maybe Fort Hays State is mistaken too?
https://webapps.fhsu.edu/ksherp/account.aspx?o=33&t=105

Had a cat bitten by one and the fur fell off around the fang marks Lots of swelling ,seen the snake /s swimming along the bank a few times a gray and white pattern .The bridge has rocks from a quarry under and on both sides . This is head waters of the upper Iowa river .

Also known as pygmy rattler

Ive had a few I remember seeing around here. trap on a gals ranch that got bit a few yrs ago in her rock garden

That range map is for the "western massasauga". I believe the OP is referring to the eastern variety

There have been sightings in Butler County PA

I lived in PA most of my life and never seen one. I believe, although rare, they are only found in Butler and maybe some adjoining counties in Western PA.

As stated earlier .
Winter in the bottom lands and move up into the woods for the summers.
Not uncommon here .
Protected by the state.
Early 70's I would find 3-4 every year in my yard.
I see a few on the roads dead.
I used to save the tails in a kitchen matchstick box.
Probably run across it someday.

Read the response’s about none being in western Kansas.

I'd hate to step on 1. Unfortunately WDNR is doing ~everything they can to increase the population around here

https://www.ksn.com/news/state-regi...e-the-most-timber-rattlesnake-sightings/


"The Western Massasauga has 1,182 confirmed sightings all across the state, except for northwest Kansas."

I have still never seen one , but there was a guy bit by a timber rattler at Devils lake climbing the rocks several years ago , so the risk in WI is usually timber rattlers.

mostly that range follows the Mississippi and Wisconsin in the driftless area

I have hunted Kanoplis a lot there are prairie dog towns there thus rattle snakes..in central Kansas..

They're found mainly in the prairie part of The Jennings Environmental Center, which a right next to Moraine S.P. and Lake Arthur. We'd go down the for a lab on the acid mine drainage studies going on as part of a wildlife class. While there we'd go to the prairie section and look for them. If I remember correctly they lived mainly in old mole and chipmunk holes.