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Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6651833
10/29/19 12:40 AM
10/29/19 12:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
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yukonjeff Offline
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yukonjeff  Offline
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Y

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
Sad situation for those of you that had fur and owed checks yet. I parted company with NAFA many years ago. Joe Mattie Predicted this ending for NAFA.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: drasselt] #6651848
10/29/19 01:45 AM
10/29/19 01:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
K
Kobukster1 Offline
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Kobukster1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
Thanks for the reply. I am considering Fur Harvesters. It’s about the only option I am aware of at this point. I was hoping some fellow trappers could provide some input as to where they sell their catch? I realize trappers are a group of people who tend to keep things to themselves and I respect that. I am that way as well. Just looking for any information people can provide.

Having said that; I need to be educated, please, feel free to provide feedback

- why haven’t trappers organized their own wild fur marketing source? It seems there would be benefits to being an organized group in this regard.

- correct me if I am wrong, but the ranchers own the fur market. From pelt to processor. Wild fur is just along for the ride.

- from my view the effect of the tariffs imposed by the US and China are rapidly becoming catastrophic to the fur market. China is one of the largest players in the fur market. Their economy is crippled in large part due to tariffs. With their economy slowed, they don’t buy as many furs. With tariffs imposed on anything producers in China send to the US, cost for fur products in the US nearly doubles and makes many of those product un-marketable. So, because of these tariffs both of the worlds largest economy’s are not buying fur at a level that can sustain the supply that is presently out there. From what I can see, wild fur will be the first to be sidelined ( which it already has been for all practical purposes with certain species). Now with NAFA going belly up and FHA in bed with SAGA, who is a ranch operation, Wild fur is really becoming an afterthought. FHA had lower clearance at lower averages on marten than NAFA last auction season while operating in partnership with SAGA. I only see those numbers getting worse this year with SAGA having all of NAFAs ranch mink to sell.

I will stop there. I have more to say, but I will wait for some feedback. I only see it getting worse if something doesn’t change. Trappers need to unite somehow and market their fur together. I always though the war was against the anti’s. Now, I see the biggest threats to the trapper as the Government and the fur farmers (ranchers).




Last edited by Kobukster1; 10/29/19 08:23 PM.
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6651855
10/29/19 02:32 AM
10/29/19 02:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
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yukonjeff Offline
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yukonjeff  Offline
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Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
Alaska Trappers Association have two auctions a year for members. One during Rondy and one in FBX

FH is worth a shot. Owned by trappers.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6652072
10/29/19 10:40 AM
10/29/19 10:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,184
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Armpit, ak
What do you need to average on marten to make trapping them worth the effort? Depending on color you probably will not average above $50 pre commission at FHA this year; if they can move them. Averages could be as low as $35 depending on the make-up of your harvest.


Who is John Galt?
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6652078
10/29/19 10:51 AM
10/29/19 10:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
$50.After commish.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: yukonjeff] #6652650
10/29/19 10:06 PM
10/29/19 10:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 397
Interior Alaska
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EurekaTrapper Offline
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EurekaTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 397
Interior Alaska
Originally Posted by yukonjeff
Alaska Trappers Association have two auctions a year for members. One during Rondy and one in FBX

FH is worth a shot. Owned by trappers.

I heard they don't get many buyers for Marten at the ATA auctions.


"Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from the wise."
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6652692
10/29/19 11:03 PM
10/29/19 11:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,205
Manitoba
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Northof50 Offline
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Northof50  Offline
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Manitoba
Tariffs have killed the business.
And with counter-importation duties in imposed by China for our goods.
and you are going to stand behind someone in the USA tweeting daily, Make America Great ! the cause of this .

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6652747
10/30/19 01:22 AM
10/30/19 01:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
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yukonjeff Offline
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yukonjeff  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
No Overproduction by mink ranchers was the cause of this. ie NAFA

Orange man Good.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: Dirt] #6652752
10/30/19 02:21 AM
10/30/19 02:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
K
Kobukster1 Offline
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Kobukster1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
For me, At this point, it’s about more about a viable market(s) for my marten. Don’t get me wrong averages matter to me but I can work harder and increase my catch to overcome lower prices.......to a degree. Economy of scale. Clearances matter. Credible cash buyers appeal to me. FHA is gonna struggle on price and clearance from my view.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: yukonjeff] #6652755
10/30/19 02:57 AM
10/30/19 02:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
K
Kobukster1 Offline
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Kobukster1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
I am not sure it’s as much overproduction as it is a business strategy. Scaling. It’s worked well for them. The large fur farmers control the market from pelt to processor to store front.

As far as the orange man goes. Like him, don’t like him, it does t really matter to me. What is undeniable is that tariffs ARE effecting the fur. market. The effects may be irreversible.

Here is an article that may explain a few things:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/F1B60ABA-C74A-11E8-B749-3B074E7D01E0

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6652986
10/30/19 10:38 AM
10/30/19 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,184
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Posts: 11,184
Armpit, ak
If you want cash up front and don't care about selling $30 marten check with Alaska Raw Fur ( Joe Mattie ) was a buyer/ agent last I knew and possibly Arctic Raw Fur ( Bill Wivoda) since he was a buyer before NAFA turned him into an agent. I think he is no longer a NAFA agent.


BTW I think your business model may be flawed. Last time marten prices were this poor, I found that the marten easily accessible with little expense and effort may well be profitable, but the ones far away that required more work and expense were not profitable. That was in year 2000 dollars with year 2000 expenses.

Last edited by Dirt; 10/30/19 12:52 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: Boco] #6653040
10/30/19 11:43 AM
10/30/19 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,203
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by Boco
$50.After commish.

You must be referring to Canadian pesos.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: Northof50] #6653192
10/30/19 02:50 PM
10/30/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,237
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
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wy.wolfer Offline
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Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by Northof50
Tariffs have killed the business.
And with counter-importation duties in imposed by China for our goods.
and you are going to stand behind someone in the USA tweeting daily, Make America Great ! the cause of this .
China had tariff's on U.S. produced goods that averaged over 6 times what the U.S. charged Them for the tariffs on Chinese produced goods. This is what the new tariff's imposed by the U.S. are about, FAIR TRADE! This is what the trade war is about, China does not want to have fees imposed on their producers that are equivalent to what U.S. producers have to pay to bring their goods into China. That and intellectual property theft. It's a fight to see who gives in first. China is suffering more than the U.S. is by a significant amount. This is about making trade between countries equal.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6653361
10/30/19 06:44 PM
10/30/19 06:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Nope American pesos.
Fur sells in American pesos.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6653372
10/30/19 07:00 PM
10/30/19 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,997
Kelowna BC Canada
trapper ron Offline
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trapper ron  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,997
Kelowna BC Canada
I am just waiting final word. My latest information is they may have filed for receivership. All of the depots are closed including Winnipeg and Stoughton wild fur operations. As soon as I receive final information I will post. At the moment Fur Harvesters is the only International Wild Fur Auction house.


Member BCTA
Trapping Instructor

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: Boco] #6653520
10/30/19 09:49 PM
10/30/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,203
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by Boco
Nope American pesos.
Fur sells in American pesos.

$50 USD average for marten this year? I hope so, sounds optimistic.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: Dirt] #6653545
10/30/19 10:34 PM
10/30/19 10:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
K
Kobukster1 Offline
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Kobukster1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16
Alaska
Originally Posted by Dirt
If you want cash up front and don't care about selling $30 marten check with Alaska Raw Fur ( Joe Mattie ) was a buyer/ agent last I knew and possibly Arctic Raw Fur ( Bill Wivoda) since he was a buyer before NAFA turned him into an agent. I think he is no longer a NAFA agent.


BTW I think your business model may be flawed. Last time marten prices were this poor, I found that the marten easily accessible with little expense and effort may well be profitable, but the ones far away that required more work and expense were not profitable. That was in year 2000 dollars with year 2000 expenses.


I don’t have easily accessible marten. 45 miles via snowmachine one way to get to the start of marten lines. My point was I can increase volume of catch while limiting my additional expenses by adding spurs lines. This increase in volume at a lower cost allows me to offset lower prices because it increases my revenue relative to costs.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6653613
10/31/19 12:02 AM
10/31/19 12:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
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yukonjeff Offline
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yukonjeff  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,796
M.T.V. Alaska
You know, the mink ranchers going bankrupt could be a good thing for the wild fur market. Instead of having a PT sale for wild fur. FHA could lock the door on the PT room and tell the buyers to bid or go with out. See what happens. I think NAFA has been suppressing prices by giving sweet heart deals of our wild fur to their ranch mink customers.

Oh, and all you die hard NAFA shippers should thank us FHA shippers for supporting a trapper owned auction house, and keeping the wild fur trade alive in North America, over the competition ,that was trying to stamp them out at every chance they got.

Without FHA it would be almost a total loss. We will see if they can make it now.

Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: EurekaTrapper] #6653615
10/31/19 12:04 AM
10/31/19 12:04 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,686
Alaska
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drasselt Offline
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Alaska
Originally Posted by EurekaTrapper

I heard they don't get many buyers for Marten at the ATA auctions.


That has been true at the Anchorage sale not sure about Fairbanks.


you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
Re: NAFA done with wild fur? [Re: fishermann222] #6653631
10/31/19 12:37 AM
10/31/19 12:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
I don't predict that for Marten this year Waggler.That is what I need out of them in order to run my traplines to the maximum harvest level,at a profit,if the populations allow it.
I can make money on $35 dollar marten on some lines,like the ones close to home but not on the more remote ones.
I think marten will be in the $25 dollar range this year,but that is just my opinion.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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