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Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730528
01/15/20 09:25 PM
01/15/20 09:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Northern MN
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atrapper Offline
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Northern MN
Haha I had to laugh at the 20 year thing too, Jbyrd. No teachers I know are going to be able to retire even after 30 years of teaching. Especially since Rule of 90 is now gone. I highly doubt I'll be able to retire before age 64 based on the current pension we have. That would put me at 41 years of teaching.

To answer your original question Rex, it's quite simple. If you want qualified teachers educating your child for 2,000 hours each year, you need to pay them well enough to stay in the profession. Are you always satisfied with the service and competency of fast food joint employees? Why am I always one fry short and left without ketchup from my Happy Meal? Because this level of employee is the best they can get for the money they pay their employees. If you're dissatisfied with the education system now, go ahead and cut wages, benefits, etc. and see what sort of riffraff teachers you get to take the job. The truth is teachers will spend more time with kids 9 months out of the year than these kids parents will spend with them. What's wrong with compensating teachers to be motivated and appreciated for raising the next generation?

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730533
01/15/20 09:36 PM
01/15/20 09:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Northern MN
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Northern MN
Dirt, you aren't wrong in saying that an education major is one of the easiest to obtain but there is a reason for it. I'm not saying I agree with the reason because it makes a bad name for teachers, especially those who have continued their education and gone above and beyond to be better teachers. However, the reason is that there is a shortage of teachers. Minnesota used to be a destination state for education and the competitiveness for teaching jobs used to reflect that. When I began applying for jobs in 2009, it wasn't uncommon to have over 300 applicants for any given elementary teaching position. One school I received an interview at had nearly 600 applicants. This past year the school that I currently work at had two elementary teacher openings. We had 5 applicants. Imagine the drop in qualification that a school is getting when they go from 600 to 5 applicants.
Heck, not only is education now an easier college pathway but our state even lowered it's standards for qualification and licensure because they couldn't get enough qualified teachers applying for jobs. This is quite a dramatic change from only 10 years ago when education was a competitive field. Any idea why nobody wants to teach anymore?

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730542
01/15/20 09:44 PM
01/15/20 09:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 231
Northern MN
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Northern MN
Also Dirt, the union doesn't negotiate our wages. Teachers vote to form a committee of fellow teachers from the district that negotiate (with district administration and school board) for all teachers in the district. My wife has been a negotiator for the past two negotiation cycles (every 2 years). She was paid $6/hour for this job. Each district negotiates their salary schedule. Some districts are able to negotiate a 4% increase in salary per year, other districts go on a salary freeze for a couple years. So in a sense this is free market. If I don't like my districts salary scale, I can go down the road to the next district that will pay me $10,000/ year more.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730570
01/15/20 10:11 PM
01/15/20 10:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,370
East-Central Wisconsin
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East-Central Wisconsin
I taught at a public tech college for 31 years and was 5.5 years an extension agent. I enjoyed my career greatly. I was able to help hundreds of young people get established in owning farms or agriculture businesses. Yes I heard all those years the same that many on here taut that if you can't do the job, teach as that does not take much skill. I have been surprised at the high level of animosity and resentment many feel about public school teachers but I never let that prevent me from doing the very best I could. There are perks as there are in any job and yes there are many hours worked far past the paid hours, but that is true of almost any responsible management level position. I did not have this cushy job where I just waited to see who showed up to class. I had to recruit students to keep my program going and did all the scheduling, collecting tuition, drafting the class outlines and schedule over 500 business visits per year besides the classes. Things worked out well has I had an over load of students who wanted to courses for 22 of the 23 years I taught the self directed program. After I left that position to do the extension job on a 60% basis the program lasted about 3 years. We had a good run for many years.
Several of the business owners I know are looking for teachers that have 3-10 years experience as they totally understand that if we can find a very successful teacher that can take all the bad mouthing, the negative politics, work with boards and administrations and students they will be very good additions to their staffs and they can and do offer considerably more. When I left extension a masters degree candidate would start at about 42K per year with about 15-20 k per year of bennies depending on if they were single or used family for health insurance. Many of those that worked 2-4 years were getting offers in the industry almost double their starting salaries with only the politics of the firm and not all the other beside.
One of the real things that is hurting our rural smaller schools now that we don't have a more unified salary bargaining process is that the wealthier districts can out pay the smaller districts by thousands more. One of the younger ag teachers that I know went from 37k at one school and two years later got 48K at a larger school and 3 years later took a $15k raise to teach in a wealthy suburban district. He got 25K of raises in 5 years. His father taught for 33 years and never got 25K more than when he started.

Bryce

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730601
01/15/20 10:34 PM
01/15/20 10:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,104
KY.usa
rex123 Offline OP
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I made a mistake it is after 27 years in ky unless you are 55 and have 5 years of service credit. Please jump on it but i also noticed none of you will answer my other questions. And to my fellow KY what was wrong with the 401k statement ? Would not have bothered any teachers working just new hires?

Re: TEACHERS [Re: atrapper] #6730619
01/15/20 10:44 PM
01/15/20 10:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,918
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by atrapper
Also Dirt, the union doesn't negotiate our wages. Teachers vote to form a committee of fellow teachers from the district that negotiate (with district administration and school board) for all teachers in the district. My wife has been a negotiator for the past two negotiation cycles (every 2 years). She was paid $6/hour for this job. Each district negotiates their salary schedule. Some districts are able to negotiate a 4% increase in salary per year, other districts go on a salary freeze for a couple years. So in a sense this is free market. If I don't like my districts salary scale, I can go down the road to the next district that will pay me $10,000/ year more.


You formed a union of teachers to collude to fix the price of labor above what the free market would pay individual contractors. Facts are facts. If they hurt peoples feelings. Too bad!

Thanks for the well reasoned and factual responses.

Last edited by Dirt; 01/15/20 11:37 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730627
01/15/20 10:49 PM
01/15/20 10:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,370
East-Central Wisconsin
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East-Central Wisconsin
First of all from a federal aspect a government employee is not put on a 401K. They are 403Bs which are very similar but not the same. The main reason the established teachers probably wanted the pension system to be maintained as the funds from the teachers also fund the retirees. Pension plans such as teachers have are basically annuity plans and they are not assets that you own. There is a formula that is used to establish a base payment and each state may have different ways that they use for increasing the stipend per year. When you die the payments cease unless you take less money from the get go or sort of buy some insurance if you will so it can continue on to your spouse or designee. I did that. I took less as y wife did not have a high value retirement income and this way she will have the same amount we get today until she passes. It cost me about $109 per month to buy that protection but I felt I could find ways to earn $1500 per year to cover that cost. Women in her family live well into their 90s and hopefully this will help with elder care costs and not be anymore burden to Medicaid etc.

The nursing home where my mother-in-law is now has roughly 20 clients with all but two on medicaid and not one of those in residence were public workers.

Bryce

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730633
01/15/20 10:51 PM
01/15/20 10:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 492
Wisconsin
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 492
Wisconsin
Sorry just got home from school had supper and took a bit of time to look at this post some. I want to go back and respond to Lugnut on page 3 or 4 from my earlier question. My Social Science student's do know my political leanings. I openly discuss and read as much as I can on all side of the issues. I want to create free thinkers not those who spew forth only what they hear or are indoctrinated with. With that said if my students ask me what I think or believe I always share it clarifying it is my position they are asking for. So yes students can know where teachers stand and what they believe. By the way my students all know the constitution, the Bill of Rights, and that the second amendment was created to protect all others from a tyrannical government. So no, students knowing teachers positions on issues or their beliefs is not bad and in fact can be used to have incredible discussions. In fact I had an atheist student recently engage me on how creationism can exist since it cannot be scientifically proven. It was an incredibly deep but risky discussion I will undertake anytime.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730637
01/15/20 10:55 PM
01/15/20 10:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,104
KY.usa
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KY.usa
If the new hires can't be put on a 401k then why was the state ready to do so until the teachers union threw a fit?

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730640
01/15/20 10:57 PM
01/15/20 10:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 489
Ky
W
WHSKR Offline
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WHSKR  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 489
Ky
Some of you ought to crawl your arses in a class room for 30 years before you open your trap. Thank GOD for public education teachers who crawl and grind to educate all those children whose parents are poking meth up their noses and sending their dirty unwashed kids who are hungry and have never been told their loved. They have to get up dress themselves and get to school. How about praying for the teachers who are making the difference every day. Yes there are some lazy ones there and you paint them all with the same brush. Shame on you.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730646
01/15/20 11:02 PM
01/15/20 11:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 489
Ky
W
WHSKR Offline
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Posts: 489
Ky
There are flaws in the bureaucracy we call a state government made by politicians in Frankfort and you want to blame the teachers get your facts right or just say thank you to a teacher who helped teach you to read.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730658
01/15/20 11:11 PM
01/15/20 11:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 492
Wisconsin
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Bear Tracker Offline
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Wisconsin
WHSKR, true words that made me think. I have to deal with my students daily. I have had to deal with:
Students who had no food at home on the weekend
A student who's father beat the mother
A mother cheating on the father
A student who's clothes smell so bad one cannot get within 10 feet of them.
2 students contemplating suicide
3 students who's parents are now divorcing and it is there fault
A student who's school issued computer is being used for porn at home, not the student.
2 Grandparents death
Cancer diagnosis
and others.
I got to help all these kids! Been, great because I make a difference!!! I wish no child had to deal with what they do today. And that is all in a small rural, conservative, community.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730664
01/15/20 11:15 PM
01/15/20 11:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 542
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
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Posts: 542
MN, USA
Teachers work a part time job, and receive full time pay. It is 9 months, with all holidays and weekends off. Insurance and retirement, and the public pays for it all.

In return, America has some of the most uneducated children in the world, on the world's most expensive price tag.

I had 3 good teachers in 13 years of public school. The rest were sadists who were receiving pay to exercise their psychosis for inflicting upon children. They have a leftist union and are leftists who have brought ruin to America.
My sister was a teacher, who said she could discern what politicians like Al Franken and Amy Klobachar really would vote like, so she could vote for them, as they voted for every anti Christian policy in they could. It was all cover for her union pay. Here is the kicker though, in her and her husband, used to hate on South Dakota as hicks, but when it came to retire, all their discerning voting was robbing them of their retirement in Minnesota, so they now moved to South Dakota where they have no income tax, but will no doubt they will continue to vote for democrats to ruin that state too.

To put it bluntly, the United States has the technology to be rid of teachers and the billions it costs taxpayers. America could provide every child with a laptop, a subsidy to Christian churches for supervisors and just like home schoolers, America would turn out educated minds again.

Lastly, my sister taught first grade. I marveled how hard she worked, including homework. I marveled how an adult could not be more intelligent than 6 year olds, after college. Let these liberal teachers get out in the real world and fight these foreign slave workers for jobs, like Americans do of Indian tech jobs or Americans do for roofing contracts, as they voted for this, as they voted to protect themselves at our expense.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730674
01/15/20 11:23 PM
01/15/20 11:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,104
KY.usa
rex123 Offline OP
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I will open my trap anytime I want to . And back in the day when I went to school teachers REALLY cared.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730677
01/15/20 11:26 PM
01/15/20 11:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,849
Iowa
~ADC~ Online content
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Iowa
It's clear to see even on this post why kids are the way they are today.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730680
01/15/20 11:27 PM
01/15/20 11:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 489
Ky
W
WHSKR Offline
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WHSKR  Offline
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Ky
Bear Tracker thank you for teaching and caring for our youth. May God bless you many times over. There are radical opinions in this country too far left and too far right. Many blinded by their own discernment that can not be explained. I pray for them and theirs that some how God places love in their hearts before anger, disgust, envy, or jealousy or discontent.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730686
01/15/20 11:30 PM
01/15/20 11:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,104
KY.usa
rex123 Offline OP
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You guys are funny someone doesn't agree with you and that's what is wrong with the youth of today. And the other starts out shut your trap then starts praying for you? What ever happened to 2 sides to a coin?

Re: TEACHERS [Re: rex123] #6730690
01/15/20 11:34 PM
01/15/20 11:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,612
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Ky
Dirt did you wear a helmet in the class down the hall. I already said she taught for 29 years at the high school level. She would ace it easier than you would her algebra I bet.

Re: TEACHERS [Re: jbyrd63] #6730697
01/15/20 11:40 PM
01/15/20 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,918
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Dirt did you wear a helmet in the class down the hall. I already said she taught for 29 years at the high school level. She would ace it easier than you would her algebra I bet.


Since I had algebra in the 8th grade, you probably should make that bet.

Last edited by Dirt; 01/15/20 11:42 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: TEACHERS [Re: star flakes] #6730699
01/15/20 11:40 PM
01/15/20 11:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,612
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Originally Posted by star flakes
Teachers work a part time job, and receive full time pay. It is 9 months, with all holidays and weekends off. Insurance and retirement, and the public pays for it all.

In return, America has some of the most uneducated children in the world, on the world's most expensive price tag.

I had 3 good teachers in 13 years of public school. The rest were sadists who were receiving pay to exercise their psychosis for inflicting upon children. They have a leftist union and are leftists who have brought ruin to America.
My sister was a teacher, who said she could discern what politicians like Al Franken and Amy Klobachar really would vote like, so she could vote for them, as they voted for every anti Christian policy in they could. It was all cover for her union pay. Here is the kicker though, in her and her husband, used to hate on South Dakota as hicks, but when it came to retire, all their discerning voting was robbing them of their retirement in Minnesota, so they now moved to South Dakota where they have no income tax, but will no doubt they will continue to vote for democrats to ruin that state too.

To put it bluntly, the United States has the technology to be rid of teachers and the billions it costs taxpayers. America could provide every child with a laptop, a subsidy to Christian churches for supervisors and just like home schoolers, America would turn out educated minds again.

Lastly, my sister taught first grade. I marveled how hard she worked, including homework. I marveled how an adult could not be more intelligent than 6 year olds, after college. Let these liberal teachers get out in the real world and fight these foreign slave workers for jobs, like Americans do of Indian tech jobs or Americans do for roofing contracts, as they voted for this, as they voted to protect themselves at our expense.


What about parents that work? Who does the home schooling!!!
Yea but who would baby sit the kids all day. Someone once figured up what it would cost the parents if they didn't have the teachers to look after the kids and they had to pay child care.
On the elemen level most teachers average around here 30 kids in room. 6 grades per school. 3 classrooms of each grade. Add it up . At 40 bucks a day ( 200 per week) child care locally.

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