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Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766134
02/11/20 08:14 AM
02/11/20 08:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
southwest Alberta .Canada
RKH Offline
trapper
RKH  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2014
southwest Alberta .Canada
Ive had 3 closed loops on lethal snares this year .pulled tight and no yote ..its mind boggling really ..wonder if maybe they are getting a foot in it ?

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766147
02/11/20 08:35 AM
02/11/20 08:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
I wonder of the coyotes aren't playing with the snares (biting and pawing at them).

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766185
02/11/20 09:52 AM
02/11/20 09:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
NE NE
W
Wife Offline
trapper
Wife  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Aug 2015
NE NE
If the CR was totally pulled closed chances are it was a foot catch especially if it was loaded to spring close. Not a trick for them to back up as far as possible and pull it off with their teeth. They pull burs out of their fur all the time so they know how to use their teeth. They usually struggle a little as the snow will tell you but if they are savy to traps and containment,, they use their brain to escape. I have caught several coyotes through the years by the foot and lost more. Catch a coon like that once in a while but they get out 99 out of 100 times. All this with locking and releasing snares too boot.

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766194
02/11/20 10:02 AM
02/11/20 10:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline OP
trapper
The Beav  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
The more I thought about It the more I figure It was foot caught. The 6 foot CR was stretched out and fully closed. well down to 2 1/2". And It looked like the coyote just sat down since the spot In the snow was about the size of a hip or butt. Not a full body print.

Know If I would have been In entanglement the coyotes head would have been down and In most cases been neck caught. So I figure that out in the open It's head was up and probably got a front foot In the loop.


As to just dropped and closed loops I figure the coyote hit the loop with It's shoulder and the lock dropped and the loop closed and Is just laying there with the whammy still engaged on the support wire.

I have noticed that a lot where your trapping In sparse vegetation.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766242
02/11/20 11:08 AM
02/11/20 11:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
Quote
So today I was checking my few CRs. I can see fresh coyote tracks heading down the fence line head right for my CR. I don't know how that coyote did it but It got out of that CR. I see where he laid down and the CR Is laying there fully closed. There was no tear up just It's tracks a lay down spot and then a single set of tracks leading away. I don't know If It pawed the loop off It's neck or It was jaw caught or maybe foot caught. But It wasn't there.
Then to make matters worse my next CR was approached and the track stopped 5" away from the loop and then the coyote backed up and left. Maybe It was the same coyote or It's running mate there were at least 2 coyotes working that field.

Then I go to the next farm and see fresh coyote tracks heading right down the fence line. The farmer had dumped a dead sheep along the fence line. The coyote went right by It never broke stride and went across the field and turned down the trail where I had caught a coyote last Tuesday . Of coarse I didn't have a snare there . But there Is one there know. LOL
Fresh snow sure does tell the tale.

Frustrated In Oregon WI.


Quote
Ive had 3 closed loops on lethal snares this year .pulled tight and no yote ..its mind boggling really ..wonder if maybe they are getting a foot in it ?


The coyote is probably seeing or sensing the Magnetic field. Probably Both. Same as they would dig up a projected field of a foot hold. It will be more prevalent 5 days before to 5 days after a full moon. The field may not be of high enough intensity for him to sense, until the moon is closest to the earth in its cycle depending on materials used and how the set was made using those materials. If the snare has a high intensity he could feel it, see it, and back out. A projection of low intensity he may just see the outline of the snare more clearly and just paw it.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766294
02/11/20 12:00 PM
02/11/20 12:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline OP
trapper
The Beav  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
ROTFLMAO


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6766578
02/11/20 04:24 PM
02/11/20 04:24 PM
Joined: May 2010
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"
pcr2  Offline
"Twerker"
P

Joined: May 2010
potter co. p.a.
liberty bibberty.









Re: Coyotes [Re: pcr2] #6766760
02/11/20 07:40 PM
02/11/20 07:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Aliceville, Kansas 45
Yukon John Offline
trapper
Yukon John  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2020
Aliceville, Kansas 45
Originally Posted by pcr2
liberty bibberty.


Lol, Liberty Buchimo!


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Coyotes [Re: Yukon John] #6767005
02/11/20 11:22 PM
02/11/20 11:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Arkansas
A
Artrapper16 Offline
trapper
Artrapper16  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jun 2019
Arkansas
Originally Posted by Yukon John
Originally Posted by pcr2
liberty bibberty.


Lol, Liberty Buchimo!

Am I allowed to riff lol

Re: Coyotes [Re: Kirk De] #6767082
02/12/20 12:48 AM
02/12/20 12:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Central MN
MNCedar Offline
trapper
MNCedar  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Central MN
Originally Posted by Kirk De
The coyote is probably seeing or sensing the Magnetic field. Probably Both. Same as they would dig up a projected field of a foot hold. It will be more prevalent 5 days before to 5 days after a full moon. The field may not be of high enough intensity for him to sense, until the moon is closest to the earth in its cycle depending on materials used and how the set was made using those materials. If the snare has a high intensity he could feel it, see it, and back out. A projection of low intensity he may just see the outline of the snare more clearly and just paw it.


This makes a lot more sense than people saying full moon catch rates drop off because animals "can see better". Animals see just fine without the moon too, which is why the world comes alive at night.

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767366
02/12/20 10:17 AM
02/12/20 10:17 AM
Joined: May 2018
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
SW Georgia
Could of swore I read a study that said the moon had more to do with prey movement rather than predator movement. If the prey holes up do to the brightness of the moon the predators don’t move as much...no sense in wasting energy hunting when the prey just isn’t out like they are on a darker night.

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767382
02/12/20 10:32 AM
02/12/20 10:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
East Central Wi.
coyote addict Offline
trapper
coyote addict  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
East Central Wi.
This is how my two self released restraints looked [Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Member -W.T.A. N.T.A. - N.R. A.
A Shotgun. A Rifle and a 4 Wheel Drive.. A Country Boy. Will Survive
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767391
02/12/20 10:40 AM
02/12/20 10:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
Quote
Quote
So today I was checking my few CRs. I can see fresh coyote tracks heading down the fence line head right for my CR. I don't know how that coyote did it but It got out of that CR. I see where he laid down and the CR Is laying there fully closed. There was no tear up just It's tracks a lay down spot and then a single set of tracks leading away. I don't know If It pawed the loop off It's neck or It was jaw caught or maybe foot caught. But It wasn't there.
Then to make matters worse my next CR was approached and the track stopped 5" away from the loop and then the coyote backed up and left. Maybe It was the same coyote or It's running mate there were at least 2 coyotes working that field.

Then I go to the next farm and see fresh coyote tracks heading right down the fence line. The farmer had dumped a dead sheep along the fence line. The coyote went right by It never broke stride and went across the field and turned down the trail where I had caught a coyote last Tuesday . Of coarse I didn't have a snare there . But there Is one there know. LOL
Fresh snow sure does tell the tale.

Frustrated In Oregon WI.


Quote
Ive had 3 closed loops on lethal snares this year .pulled tight and no yote ..its mind boggling really ..wonder if maybe they are getting a foot in it ?


The coyote is probably seeing or sensing the Magnetic field. Probably Both. Same as they would dig up a projected field of a foot hold. It will be more prevalent 5 days before to 5 days after a full moon. The field may not be of high enough intensity for him to sense, until the moon is closest to the earth in its cycle depending on materials used and how the set was made using those materials. If the snare has a high intensity he could feel it, see it, and back out. A projection of low intensity he may just see the outline of the snare more clearly and just paw it.


Quote
This makes a lot more sense than people saying full moon catch rates drop off because animals "can see better". Animals see just fine without the moon too, which is why the world comes alive at night.



Notice in the first post The Beav made he referenced cable restraints.

Notice in the second quote Explained the trapper as using lethal snares.

Their is a big difference. When cable restraints are used in Wisconsin they have to swivel up to allow the animal to move without entanglement. Their also cannot be objects for entanglement.

The more swivels added to the snare the greater the intensity that is projected allowing for the coyote to sense or see. Also notice that the second quote described all catches pointed to a foot catch and loss, which would indicate a lower intensity causing the coyote to be curious and paw. The Beav using a CR describe what appeared to him as a back out probably caused by a strong intensity projected in the snares center. He also described how his CR's were avoided completely which describes a possible educated coyote. Note that he said painting didn't seem to make a difference in a earlier post to wolfdog.

This would all make since that a magnetic field detection was probable. Especially when all is considered including MNCedar's post.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767634
02/12/20 12:26 PM
02/12/20 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline OP
trapper
The Beav  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
I'm not buying It.

I figure a foot caught coyote Is just walking right through the snare with It's head up. WI rules tell us the loop can be no bigger then 12" and can't be more then 12" off any packed surface. So In a non entanglement situation and the coyote Isn't hunting just traveling from point A to point B it's head is probably up and above the 24" height. But It's feet are In the zone.

So this magnetic field thing must not effect the catching of 1000s and 1000s of coyotes that are killed on a annual basis. Just think If Robert would have de magnetized all his foot holds he might have caught 2000 coyotes on the Quest.

The other thing Is a coyote lives by It's wits and when you go stomping around driving stakes and hanging cable In that trail that animal knows something Is a miss.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767678
02/12/20 01:14 PM
02/12/20 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
Keep in mind not all coyotes are the same. Some are more cautious than others. I started a little test to see if coyotes can detect foot holds to some degree. I do have an app on my phone that measures magnetic field and I wouldn't completely rule out that if my phone can measure it that a coyote might be able to sense it enough to cause them to be a little more cautious. It's fun to play around anyway, I'm sure if my tests aren't conclusive I'll learn over valuable information playing with coyotes.

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767776
02/12/20 02:47 PM
02/12/20 02:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
Quote
So this magnetic field thing must not effect the catching of 1000s and 1000s of coyotes that are killed on a annual basis. Just think If Robert would have de magnetized all his foot holds he might have caught 2000 coyotes on the Quest.


Just the opposite if Robert had not been using points stated, now known, he might not have caught 1000 coyotes. The best trappers learn what works best for them and stick to what they have learned. That is Robert. Say the top 10 %. To be at that level they must be doing things that correspond to best address the magnetic field of the area trapped, including weather and conditions, methods , and devices (equipment used). Whether they realize what they are doing reduces the magnetic field or not. They just know it works. An example is the strong emphasis on firmly bedding the trap. It is very important that the trap not move. To do that the trap, being firmly in contact with its surroundings, dissipates the projected field the trap produces. Even the soil type and moisture level makes a difference.

I just discovered a better understanding as to why the best trappers have found that what they have been doing works best.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767791
02/12/20 03:00 PM
02/12/20 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline OP
trapper
The Beav  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Wisconsin
No It's all about work ethics.
Getting out before the season and gaining permission and pre scouting. Then getting out of the sack at 3:30 In the morning and working till dark. Then doing It every day for months In 3 different states. And running 160 some sets and keeping them operational In all kinds of weather.
It sure as heck has nothing to do with how a critter senses some magnetic hockis pockis.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Coyotes [Re: Wanna Be] #6767883
02/12/20 04:10 PM
02/12/20 04:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Central MN
MNCedar Offline
trapper
MNCedar  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Central MN
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Could of swore I read a study that said the moon had more to do with prey movement rather than predator movement. If the prey holes up do to the brightness of the moon the predators don’t move as much...no sense in wasting energy hunting when the prey just isn’t out like they are on a darker night.


At least here, this is not true.

Full moon sees plenty of activity for all furbearers, from raccoons to coyotes to everything in between. Full moon nights are great for calling coyotes, for example. There were animals everywhere this past weekend. Catches by trappers, however, usually drop. It's almost a guarantee that coon catches will drop considerably during a full moon, regardless of whether the food source is corn or fish or something else.

Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767885
02/12/20 04:11 PM
02/12/20 04:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Georgia
Quote
No It's all about work ethics.
Getting out before the season and gaining permission and pre scouting. Then getting out of the sack at 3:30 In the morning and working till dark. Then doing It every day for months In 3 different states. And running 160 some sets and keeping them operational In all kinds of weather.
It sure as heck has nothing to do with how a critter senses some magnetic hockis pockis.


It is not just about work ethics.
For at least twelve years I got out before the season and gained permission to trap on hundreds of landowners property in each of at least 6 counties. Over 340 Land owners in my county alone. Encompassing hundreds of thousands acres, going to over 400 locations each year.Not taking a day off even for Christmas for 3 and one half months in those years. Traveled 300 miles a day running about 150 sets a day, or more, taking up sets and going to new sets every day. Working from an hour before daylight to 9 to ten at night. Even have professional video showing.

I sure as heck would not have caught the thousands upon thousands of animals had I set my traps that exposed the magnetic field. I didn't realize until a little over a year ago that the ways I had learned were ways to hide the field intensity of the trapping devices. I doubt I would have figured it out if I had not gotten my two patents I have. It is very much about magnetic hockis pockis.

Beav I really believe in the experiences too much to believe otherwise. Have proven to myself without doubt. Not trying to be difficult, just trying to share what I have discovered before this old man goes.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
Re: Coyotes [Re: The Beav] #6767900
02/12/20 04:26 PM
02/12/20 04:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Central MN
MNCedar Offline
trapper
MNCedar  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Central MN
Originally Posted by The Beav
I'm not buying It.

I figure a foot caught coyote Is just walking right through the snare with It's head up. WI rules tell us the loop can be no bigger then 12" and can't be more then 12" off any packed surface. So In a non entanglement situation and the coyote Isn't hunting just traveling from point A to point B it's head is probably up and above the 24" height. But It's feet are In the zone.

So this magnetic field thing must not effect the catching of 1000s and 1000s of coyotes that are killed on a annual basis. Just think If Robert would have de magnetized all his foot holds he might have caught 2000 coyotes on the Quest.

The other thing Is a coyote lives by It's wits and when you go stomping around driving stakes and hanging cable In that trail that animal knows something Is a miss.


These three points do not support each other. They also do not work on their own.

If you are snaring coyote by the feet, your loops are too big and too low. We have loop restrictions here (I believe more than yours) and the best way I have found to fix this is to run tighter loops. Better off catching a coyote right around the face or missing it completely, and either catching it next time or catching the next one. I can't count how many times an avoided snare will catch the next time around. Constantly messing with snares is a rookie mistake. If you can legally run 12 and 12 loops then that is not the reason for any issue. Even when walking, a coyote's head and neck are not straight up. It's comical to even try and picture that.

I don't believe the magnetic field explanation suggests that every animal senses every trap every time. I do see that Kirk has already explained that putting up high numbers means that particular trapper's system is the best fit for his conditions...including magnetically. It is a pretty bold statement for you to say that animals do not perceive the world in ways we may not yet fully understand. It seems as if science makes new discoveries all the time.

If a coyote was alerted that a trapper had disturbed the area that much, it would not be sticking its foot in snares or bumping them down. It would avoid the area completely.


Originally Posted by The Beav
No It's all about work ethics.
Getting out before the season and gaining permission and pre scouting. Then getting out of the sack at 3:30 In the morning and working till dark. Then doing It every day for months In 3 different states. And running 160 some sets and keeping them operational In all kinds of weather.
It sure as heck has nothing to do with how a critter senses some magnetic hockis pockis.


Ironic.....considering this is coming from the guy posting about how much trouble his is having. If it's so easy then just do as you mentioned. As far as refusals and avoidances during a full moon, I would certainly not discount the magnetic field idea just yet.

I'm not trying to be a jerk by calling you out.....but you're definitely acting like one. I don't understand why you feel the need to talk to people on here the way you do.

Happy Trapping

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