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Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6784694
02/27/20 09:08 AM
02/27/20 09:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,751
Wi.
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Diggerman Offline
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If correct, Why hasn't cattle and sheep ranchers put electronic howlers every 5 miles or so, Play them at night Jan.1st through April 1st. Couple- three years the coyote population should be in check.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: Nick C] #6784752
02/27/20 09:52 AM
02/27/20 09:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,750
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Boone Liane Offline
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Originally Posted by Nick C
There was a biologist (I forgot his name) on Predator Masters years ago that explained the more you kill the bigger the litter size is not some miracle from mother nature. It has everything to do with population dynamics of the female. Howling or lack thereof would have no affect on litter size either.

The jist of his explanation is that a heavy harvest on a population of coyotes in an “area” would typically kill more younger female coyotes, thus leaving more older females than younger females to be bred. Older females on average have less pup mortality than young of year female coyotes, so it would appear that the litter size increases when you kill off a lot of coyotes, when in reality the female coyotes that survived the harvest were actually just better at raising/keeping pups alive. In the circumstance that there isn’t a heavy harvest, more young of the year female coyotes would get bred and have litters, but due to their inexperience/ability to mother it would appear the overall average litter size in that area decreased. When you just have more younger female coyotes having pups and not being able to raise them like an older experienced adult coyote.

I hope that explanation makes sense, it does to me. I can relate it to my experience raising ranch fox. If I had an option to have 20 female fox, Id much rather have 3-4 year old females who have all raised a litter every year, than to have 20 young of the year 1st time females. I’d bet a lot on the older female group weaning a larger average litter size than the pup female group. Just my 2 cents.


Bingo.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6784755
02/27/20 09:58 AM
02/27/20 09:58 AM
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Posts: 18,146
N.W. Iowa
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Tactical.20 Offline
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I agree

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6784815
02/27/20 10:45 AM
02/27/20 10:45 AM
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Posts: 293
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bbasher Offline
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From what I've seen of the collared coyote studies, the young of the year coyotes will travel a surprising distance to find new stomping grounds. One of the collared pups travelled up and over the mountains in Kalispell to Browning. I thought I remember seeing a link on here where a coyote in SC travelled 100 miles before it was killed. Like most people have said litter size has to relate to coyote density and food availability.

I wouldn't believe what I hear on Joe Rogan's podcast from the self proclaimed "wildlife biologists". Most of them are reality TV type people.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6785004
02/27/20 01:32 PM
02/27/20 01:32 PM
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Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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Champaign County, Ohio.
Originally Posted by danny clifton
they must have different coyotes than we do if those pups stay gentle


Danny was not your coyote really well behaved until one time, when in it was older, it badly bit your wife, when it was startled with a garden hose? How old was your coyote when it bit her.

People keep all sorts of fairly to very dangerous animals as pets. There originally were no domesticated animals.

There is probably a tremendous amount of different genetics in coyotes. I heard Embark is doing free DNA tests on captive coyotes. If so, I am going to get Katie DNA tested. I suspect most Eastern coyotes have a fair amount to high amount of domestic dog DNA.

I am especially curious about the DNA of the coyotes that are living in cities right now.

Keith


Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: Nick C] #6785523
02/27/20 10:00 PM
02/27/20 10:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 68
Pennsylvania
PARick Offline OP
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PARick  Offline OP
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Pennsylvania
This makes perfect sense.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: Diggerman] #6785557
02/27/20 10:22 PM
02/27/20 10:22 PM
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Posts: 2,717
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DWC Offline
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Originally Posted by Diggerman
If correct, Why hasn't cattle and sheep ranchers put electronic howlers every 5 miles or so, Play them at night Jan.1st through April 1st. Couple- three years the coyote population should be in check.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6785909
02/28/20 08:30 AM
02/28/20 08:30 AM
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central Missouri
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Bigfoot Offline
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central Missouri
The theory would be easy to test with automatic howlers around an area . Im not willing to say total BS but am skeptical .
The amount of anxiety that females of all species feel have an effect on fertility , successfull gestation to term ,
And raising their young to weaning . What may cause anxiety varies from one species to the next . As much anxiety as coyotes express could lead sombody to theorize that coyotes might be susceptible to these stresses .
Myself I think it would take more than howling . I think most coyotes would get used to the constant howling without olfactory confirmation and possibly conflict much as they get used to a dog on a chain jut staying out of their reach.
Another thought is how successfully will female coyotes settle if they dont have a home territory established at time of their heat cycle

Last edited by Bigfoot; 02/28/20 08:30 AM.
Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6785914
02/28/20 08:33 AM
02/28/20 08:33 AM
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Posts: 2,363
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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litter size or weaned litter size? two very different things.......there is a ton of research done on this if someone just wants to read

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6786296
02/28/20 02:01 PM
02/28/20 02:01 PM
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St. Croix County, Wisconsin
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ToTheWoods Offline
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I have read something similar just not with the vocalization part but I'm sure that this would be a part of the que. Other animals have similar reactions to population. A whitetail doe will continue to fawn more does when the buck v doe ratio is out of whack in favor of does.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: TreedaBlackdog] #6786972
02/28/20 09:52 PM
02/28/20 09:52 PM
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central Missouri
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Bigfoot Offline
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central Missouri
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
litter size or weaned litter size? two very different things.......there is a ton of research done on this if someone just wants to read

I dont think anybody is doubting that litters are bigger when there are fewer coyotes what people are doubting is that this is due to vocal cues instead of other more obvious factors . Has anybody seen the studies where this theory comes from . I wonder if its rooted in them studies where they took census of the population by counting the answers to a siren at different stations at set times . It sure makes for a good story . I heard a radio comercial today for an MDC blog talking about the SENSATIONAL adaptability of the coyote

Last edited by Bigfoot; 02/28/20 09:58 PM.
Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6787067
02/28/20 11:14 PM
02/28/20 11:14 PM
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SW Pa
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wr otis Offline
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Coyotes at the farm here are exceptionally quiet this fall and winter. Still numbers of them but real quiet bunch. Last three or four years just the opposite.

Re: Coyote vocals=litter size [Re: PARick] #6787477
02/29/20 11:35 AM
02/29/20 11:35 AM
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N.W. Iowa
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Tactical.20 Offline
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More calling pressure this year?

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