Re: How is this racist?
[Re: trapdog1]
#6786074
02/28/20 10:52 AM
02/28/20 10:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,552 Tug Hill, NY
Squash
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,552
Tug Hill, NY
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You know you are getting to them when they call you racist. When they add homophone and bigot you know you have won the argument. X2, when they resort to name calling, you have won the debate.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: MNCedar]
#6786082
02/28/20 11:01 AM
02/28/20 11:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 74 Minnesota
scotts
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 74
Minnesota
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Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....
A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.
Just my initial thoughts. Notice I quoted myself...….apparently I'm the only one who can do so without altering my words. Also note that I did not mention the hat. While noting things, please also note that the bold sentence was omitted by everyone who continues to misquote me. When I used the word academically, I meant for me. EXPLAIN to me why it is not. I thought my question was polite. The hat being a hat is not the issue for those who oppose it. The MAGA slogan is. I'm not asking to prove a negative. The red hat/MAGA slogan IS already deemed racist by some (refer to the bold sentence in my original quote.) I used the word academic to suggest crafting an intellectual argument. Make a few points, use logic, etc. It was a response to the title of this thread and the first post on the page. Essentially, I meant use some words to explain yourself. I politely asked a question about my INITIAL THOUGHTS and as a result have been misquoted and taken out of context for pages now. Why is everybody so mad? . Strange how you focus only on the responses that say an inanimate object cannot be racist while completely ignoring the responses that directly address the challenge you issued. At the top of page 4 KenaiKid gives an excellent response, yet you ignore it. There are also a couple of strong points on page 2 such as Mike in a Town's comment about a KC Royals hat. Again, crickets. So, how about a response to these comments that "Make a few points, use logic, etc." I too have long wondered how the MAGA slogan is racist. Some posters on this thread have done a very good job explaining how it could be construed that way. This thread is also full of reasons why it is not. This whole thing boils down to whether or not you believe the following statement: One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Sprung & Rusty]
#6786110
02/28/20 11:35 AM
02/28/20 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,929 KY.usa
rex123
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,929
KY.usa
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Just read this post.You have to be kidding me . People are wearing a hat that says make my country great again .And some one comes along attacking that ? Why? I think besides being a liberal dem. he is better at doing what James does than James is . Also here comes Boco who sees yet another chance to once again knock America . Have you read your own countries news lately? Oh by the way as you like to say these are just my initial thoughts. lol
Last edited by rex123; 02/28/20 11:36 AM.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: walleye101]
#6786113
02/28/20 11:42 AM
02/28/20 11:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292 SE Iowa
seiowatrapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292
SE Iowa
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Huh?
Explain how the hat is not racist. That is exactly what I said above except this time I did not use a contraction A hat is not racist because it is a hat. Hats don't think so they can't have racist thoughts. They can't speak so cannot say racist things. The only message on the hat, Make America Great Again, makes no reference to racism. How's that? Exactly. ^^ Due primarily to their hatred of all things Trump, the haters are trying to associate a symbol(red MAGA hats) with something bad(racism) so as to influence public opinion in a negative way towards their enemy. There is no actual connection, just one that some people try to conjure up to besmirch someone that they don't like.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Boco]
#6786128
02/28/20 11:54 AM
02/28/20 11:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292 SE Iowa
seiowatrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292
SE Iowa
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Not to you only to those who suffered racism.Its like a slap in the face to them. Wearing a hat that says the past was great (but the past was racist)-no way will they want to go back to that.They see people who want to make america the way it was in the past as wanting to return to racism. Very easy to see their take on it, whether it means that or not to you, that is what it means to them. Illogic on display. ^^ Seeing a red hat with the MAGA phrase on it and then deselecting ALL OTHER possible meanings and choosing to focus only on one potential meaning(racism), which has never been officially associated with that subject, is a giveaway as to one's true motivations. When all you have is a hammer, everything then looks like a nail. For one thing, even in the past, not everyone was racist. Just a few other things from "in the past" that many would identify with and may associate with a phrase that harks back to a previous "time": 1. Kids showing respect to their elders/parents. 2. People working hard and being on time, etc. 3. Respect for the flag and patriotism. Etc, etc, etc, That some would take the phrase MAGA and then go straight to racism is their problem...until and unless there is any real connection established between racism and MAGA...and so far, there isn't one.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: KenaiKid]
#6786140
02/28/20 11:59 AM
02/28/20 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292 SE Iowa
seiowatrapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292
SE Iowa
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The absurdity of this argument and the entire premise behind us is mind-numbing.
Cedarblock starts off with “Academically speaking, explain why a hat is NOT racist.” As said, that’s asking to prove a negative, which is about the most un-academic request one can make. It’s like “explain why that tree isn’t racist.” The premise is both counter-academic and illogical.
Then we have Boco reminding us 4 or 5 times that the issue is other people’s “historical reality,” as if we’re going to magically see the liberal light if he says it enough times. What does that have to do with someone’s choice of hat? Every single person has different history, and every demographic- race, sex, nationality, religion, occupation, and creed— has historical ups and downs. What Boco (and the liberal race-bating dividers) are proposing is that if someone makes a positive reference to the past, and that past includes hardship for any person or demographic, then that statement is thereby racist, along with the person making it.
So let’s put this principal to the test:
I got married in 2013. It’s a happy memory for me. Can I publicly celebrate that? Well let’s see. Alberta flooded that year, and Lac-Megantic blew up. Wouldn’t want to remind any Canadians of that trauma. Also a hurricane hit the Philippines and killed 5000 people. Let’s not forget the Boston Marathon Bomber. Way too much risk of flashbacks for too many people. Let’s not talk positively about 2013.
How about a bigger scale? What about a year like 1945, the end of WWII? Surely that’s something we could all celebrate right? The year we liberated Europe from Nazism, Asia from Japanese imperialism, freed hundreds of thousands from concentration camps, millions of soldiers came home, and the Allied nations were the most united in history? Well many of us could celebrate that, but what if you’re Japanese and your family was interned or bombed? What if your ancestors didn’t make it home? What if you’re Jewish and lost your family in the camps? Or what if you’re black and remember that the military was still segregated then? Can any of us celebrate?
We celebrate the 4th of July, our Independence Day. Is that racist? Since there was slavery then? That a group of white men dared to revolt against tyranny and forge a new nation unprecedented in model? Is the Constitution racist if there weren’t any minority signers?
Is there any period of history that doesn’t include hardship for someone? Is it ok to celebrate it anyway? Has the lie of political correctness become so pervasive that a positive reference to history can be seen as “racist” simply because history includes racism?
Is America’s whole history racist because it includes racism? Is it really unacceptable call a nation “great” if it’s history includes some ugliness? What is the definition of “great,” historical perfection?
Here’s the thing- if someone says something about a period of history that brings back trauma for me, that doesn’t make them a racist or mean they hate me. Maybe they had a good run and I had a bad run back then. Maybe I still am. Maybe my ancestors were treated wrong. It doesn’t mean it’s their fault. It’s not wrong for them to talk about it. They can celebrate something that I don’t. It doesn’t have to be fair; life isn’t fair. All it is is me choosing a victim identity.
Here’s what I think: my father isn’t perfect, but he’s great. My grandfather and my ancestors weren’t perfect, but they were great. The tough, salty folks who came home from “the war”, and every war, certainly aren’t perfect, but they are great, and the world is greater for for them. The folks who fought to end slavery, segregation and discrimination are great. And you know what, I dare to say we even had some racist slave owners who did some greatness in other ways, once upon a time. It doesn’t excuse their sin, but it also doesn’t negate their good.
This country of ours isn’t perfect. It never has been and never will be. We’ve treated people wrongly, and sometimes still do. But, God bless her, she’s also done a heck of a lot of greatness for the world. She was great, she is great, and we WILL continue to make her great. God Bless the USA, and keep making her great.
There’s my essay for the week. Nailed it! ^^ Well said.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: ]
#6786144
02/28/20 12:01 PM
02/28/20 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292 SE Iowa
seiowatrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292
SE Iowa
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If someone wants to hate another people who treated them and theirs unjustly, history is plum full of examples to draw from. Pick one. If you know history.
My wife is polish heritage and as such she is a "slav".... the medieval Latin word for "slave." The Greeks had a similar term. Today we call these nation groups Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. = a bunch of "Slavic" people groups. But they hadn't carved out nations much at that time period so there were just kingdoms more or less throughout the land. Why'd they call a vast region of people slavs or slaves?
Because starting around the 6th century, a couple centuries after Rome is sacked by the Visigoths and the Roman Empire implodes after a millennium of power the world had never seen before that, chaos now rules over the lands for centuries - and these groups of "slavs," existed in Eurasia, a bad spot as it turned out geographically.
Slavs were smaller bands of people, sandwiched between fiercer bigger, stronger, groups. They often lived in inhospitable places, trying not to be taken capture or killed. Mongols, Persians (Turks) and Huns from their east would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, from their west and south would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Men were killed and tortured of course, or made "slavs." Women were often taken back, as spoils of war.... also as "slavs."
You can imagine how wonderful and rosy those days must have been like. "Little house on the eurasian prairie" kind of days no doubt.
There's a reason they don't teach history anymore. History might give someone a bit of perspective. Or you can teach pieces of history, that give your narrative precedence and serves a specific purpose. That's what they do in "American" history classes now.
Sadly, there are some who cloak their righteousness with ignorance. They don't know what they don't know. And sadly, sometimes they don't want to know because they like what they like about what they like and don't know! They may not know that the term ignorant wasn't a derogatory term historically.... until this recent century. It was simply a term meaning; a state of "not knowing." Call someone ignorant today and see what happens. Modernists have now deemed this word offensive, because it may burst a head knowledge bubble.
Simply, all people groups have a heritage of bad, bad stuff and good, good stuff, and we're all sitting here today as that progeny. If we choose to hate, it ain't hard to find a reason.
Thankfully, my wife doesn't hate me - because my Anglo ancestors probably had some of Donna's slav ancestors tending their stock, gardens, homes and more.
Also nailed it! ^^
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: rex123]
#6786153
02/28/20 12:13 PM
02/28/20 12:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,814 Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,814
Kentucky
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Just read this post.You have to be kidding me . People are wearing a hat that says make my country great again .And some one comes along attacking that ? Why? I think besides being a liberal dem. he is better at doing what James does than James is . Also here comes Boco who sees yet another chance to once again knock America . Have you read your own countries news lately? Oh by the way as you like to say these are just my initial thoughts. lol All true, U.S.A. the shining light in a socialist world cesspool...So glad not to live in weak, helpless canada
Member - FTA
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Sprung & Rusty]
#6786166
02/28/20 12:26 PM
02/28/20 12:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 461 Nebraska
Poorcoon
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 461
Nebraska
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You guys are hilarious. Stop trying to rationalize it! It's nothing more than pathetic attempt at name-calling. That's it that's all it is!
"Nothing I like to do pays well." True Grit
"Revenge is in the hands of God, not mine." Revenant.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: ]
#6786241
02/28/20 01:17 PM
02/28/20 01:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 464 N.W. Pennsylvania
JTaddeo
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 464
N.W. Pennsylvania
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If someone wants to hate another people who treated them and theirs unjustly, history is plum full of examples to draw from. Pick one. If you know history.
My wife is polish heritage and as such she is a "slav".... the medieval Latin word for "slave." The Greeks had a similar term. Today we call these nation groups Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. = a bunch of "Slavic" people groups. But they hadn't carved out nations much at that time period so there were just kingdoms more or less throughout the land. Why'd they call a vast region of people slavs or slaves?
Because starting around the 6th century, a couple centuries after Rome is sacked by the Visigoths and the Roman Empire implodes after a millennium of power the world had never seen before that, chaos now rules over the lands for centuries - and these groups of "slavs," existed in Eurasia, a bad spot as it turned out geographically.
Slavs were smaller bands of people, sandwiched between fiercer bigger, stronger, groups. They often lived in inhospitable places, trying not to be taken capture or killed. Mongols, Persians (Turks) and Huns from their east would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, from their west and south would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Men were killed and tortured of course, or made "slavs." Women were often taken back, as spoils of war.... also as "slavs."
You can imagine how wonderful and rosy those days must have been like. "Little house on the eurasian prairie" kind of days no doubt.
There's a reason they don't teach history anymore. History might give someone a bit of perspective. Or you can teach pieces of history, that give your narrative precedence and serves a specific purpose. That's what they do in "American" history classes now.
Sadly, there are some who cloak their righteousness with ignorance. They don't know what they don't know. And sadly, sometimes they don't want to know because they like what they like about what they like and don't know! They may not know that the term ignorant wasn't a derogatory term historically.... until this recent century. It was simply a term meaning; a state of "not knowing." Call someone ignorant today and see what happens. Modernists have now deemed this word offensive, because it may burst a head knowledge bubble.
Simply, all people groups have a heritage of bad, bad stuff and good, good stuff, and we're all sitting here today as that progeny. If we choose to hate, it ain't hard to find a reason.
Thankfully, my wife doesn't hate me - because my Anglo ancestors probably had some of Donna's slav ancestors tending their stock, gardens, homes and more.
Great post Mark! That's some serious truth right there. I too am "Slav" and I'm also Italian and that's genetics, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST I am an American. I don't hate Arab's or anyone else for what happened to my ancestors nor do I want reparations or even any apology. In fact the terrible things that have happened also resulted in my ancestors coming HERE to America so, it turned out well for me. So, to whom ever, THANK YOU, I'm now in a very good place. Bigots are bigots and they come in the entire Baskin Robins set of flavors. Every "race" has horrible people and also has great people. The United States of America is a place, an experiment, where we will see if we can all live together OR NOT.....I surely hope so. White Slaves
Last edited by JTaddeo; 02/28/20 01:20 PM.
Keep your boots dry and your powder too.
I remember when a fur check was reality.....now I'm just trapping for the love of it.
Best Regards,
JT
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Flipper]
#6786273
02/28/20 01:48 PM
02/28/20 01:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,345 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,345
Armpit, ak
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Liberals that say black people are showing there own racism. People are people no reason to label them black,Hispanic,Asian, or white a non racist would just call them people. Tell your government that!
Who is John Galt?
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Sprung & Rusty]
#6786281
02/28/20 01:53 PM
02/28/20 01:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 46,398 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 46,398
james bay frontierOnt.
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Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least.
Last edited by Boco; 02/28/20 01:55 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Flipper]
#6786301
02/28/20 02:06 PM
02/28/20 02:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,953 OH
Catch22
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,953
OH
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Liberals that say black people are showing there own racism. People are people no reason to label them black,Hispanic,Asian, or white a non racist would just call them people. That is the best ever truth. It's just like RM's post, he said his kids are biracial and I know he's just saying what is being said if that makes sense, he seems a good ole boy. I'm in my 50's and I don't think even 20% of us consider the term biracial anymore, it's antiquated. They are just wonderful and beautiful kids under the same sky. I think some things are being lost on conservative believes.
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Boco]
#6786310
02/28/20 02:09 PM
02/28/20 02:09 PM
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least. Could we then agree that all peoples have been grieved historically by some other group? By someone who doesn't look or think like them, or maybe even by their own family member. Hating isn't hard. We're born to it. Not hating when we tell ourselves we have every right to..... is hard. Hats have nothing to do with it.
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Boco]
#6786314
02/28/20 02:10 PM
02/28/20 02:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,953 OH
Catch22
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,953
OH
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Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least. Blah Blah Blah lol, they sure do live in a different reality than normal people, they're nutburgers. ![grin grin](/forum/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif)
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: Boco]
#6786319
02/28/20 02:12 PM
02/28/20 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,819 IA
teepee2
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,819
IA
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Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least. Then quit being arrogant!
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Re: How is this racist?
[Re: scotts]
#6786330
02/28/20 02:18 PM
02/28/20 02:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 368 Central MN
MNCedar
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 368
Central MN
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Strange how you focus only on the responses that say an inanimate object cannot be racist while completely ignoring the responses that directly address the challenge you issued. At the top of page 4 KenaiKid gives an excellent response, yet you ignore it. There are also a couple of strong points on page 2 such as Mike in a Town's comment about a KC Royals hat. Again, crickets. So, how about a response to these comments that "Make a few points, use logic, etc."
I too have long wondered how the MAGA slogan is racist. Some posters on this thread have done a very good job explaining how it could be construed that way. This thread is also full of reasons why it is not. This whole thing boils down to whether or not you believe the following statement: One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
KenaiKid addressed me by the wrong name, misquoted me, added a word I did not say, and omitted the rest of my post that gave context. I did respond briefly to that, but I'm not going to reward that behavior with a response. The rest of his post was well thought out. The KC Royals are not the current political administration nor are they campaigning for office. The Royals hat does not represent an ideology that is controversial in current politics. I did not respond to this because I did not see it as a viable comparison. No offense to anyone involved. You stated yourself that the issues with MAGA lie in the way it is construed and there is logical reasoning for both sides. Well said. That was my whole point.
Last edited by MNCedar; 02/28/20 02:18 PM.
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