Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: Artrapper16]
#6856273
04/26/20 11:23 PM
04/26/20 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,446 Houghton Lake, MI
strike2x
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,446
Houghton Lake, MI
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I would think that if it were not an audio books or video the average trapper would make page 3 or less before going into a coma. That is unless you have lots of pictures. Just sounds a little dry for me.
Wish I had more time to trap....
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: MNCedar]
#6856293
04/26/20 11:52 PM
04/26/20 11:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 948 Indiana
Huntall76
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 948
Indiana
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This is an off the topic post. The kiss mindset is very important as long as the person understands it. A new trappers' understanding of KISS is a lot different than someone who has been catching for 50 years. When we all start off we start off at the same place, we Know-nothing, and it is ALL Rocket SCIENCE. As we learn rocket science isn't as hard as it once was, so our KISS changes. The more we know the more we do things without thinking about it. and many times we do not even realize we are doing it, both negative and positive. There are two mindsets, both work, JUST DO IT or UNDERSTAND WHY TO DO IT. Most folks are just do it. The problem is and this is more important in the ADC where I have to catch them all causing the problem yet not waste time and effort on catching the ones not causing the problem. and the problem is just doing it can come to a standstill when the animal doesn't want you doing it. LOL And at that point understanding the 4 W's, what, when, where, and why has to be understood. Human nature is I don't want to have to think about it, but until we learned it, we had to, and every GOOD trapper out there has thought about it to learn it, we just do not think about it after we learn it.LOL
I have Kirk's book and have read it. I do believe it has merit but I think a lot of people are misunderstanding where the field really becomes a factor. He has said many times that there are only a few animals that can detect it, not all animals. Mainly K9's, beaver, and otter I believe. Also it becomes a learned trait so it's the older, mature animals that it really helps you out with. So you will be able to take many coyotes or the other animals that can sense this field, since they haven't had or learned a bad experience yet. Young and inexperienced so to speak.
Both of these quotes do an excellent job summing up the way I understand the book so far. I don't ever want to think in absolutes, I always want to keep learning. This is especially true with wildlife. That's how I can get better. So far I feel that the magnetic field concept is not saying that you either will or won't catch all the animals that sense it, but it will definitely come in to play with some of them. It is something that, over time, will show me how and when I can use it. It definitely provides much better explanations for refusals in certain instances. I think like Jonesie said, that then becomes wanting to understand why doing things a certain way can be successful. Animals process their environment so much differently than humans. I know metal is made from elements found in the earth. But with that being said, is it fair to say that metal made by humans (fences, posts, gates, cages, traps) is extremely foreign to an animals environment? So foreign they can feel it. I think of it as....They grow up around it, learn to live with it, grow used to going under fences/through culverts/ etc...but that doesn't mean that it never stops being recognized as foreign. An animal senses metal, for it is not natural (just like asphalt roads and building foundations), yet learns to live with it. An adult animal or one that becomes aware of trapping pressure, might then draw on that. Meaning that although he has sensed and perceived that metal his entire life, if he is put on edge or wary, he'll pull from his ability to sense that metal the same way he smells the air. It's how he perceives the world....through a combination of sensory feedback. That is just something I thought about when I started reading the book. If a animal grows up around fences, culverts and roads it is natural to them they don't have human intelligence to comprehend where they come from .
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: Artrapper16]
#6856312
04/27/20 12:43 AM
04/27/20 12:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 948 Indiana
Huntall76
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 948
Indiana
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for·eign /ˈfôrən/ adjective 1. of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own. "a foreign language" (2.) ((((((strange and unfamiliar.)))))) "I suppose this all feels pretty foreign to you"
If something has been there for the hole life of an animal or in most cases several generations of animals ancestors it cannot be by definition foreign
Last edited by Huntall76; 04/27/20 12:44 AM.
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: Artrapper16]
#6856469
04/27/20 08:59 AM
04/27/20 08:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447 Monroeville NJ
Jonesie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447
Monroeville NJ
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I believe that IF an animal reacts negatively to a magnetic field it is learned by some negative experience that animal has. A trap pinching or going off in its face (beaver and killers) And most of those would be older animals. Older is anything over a year as most animals die with in the first 1.5 years of age when mortality rates are 40 to 60%. Again I am trying to prove Kirk correct, simply because if I try to prove it right, then I know yes or no based on facts, not bias. Why? Because it will answer why I get some animals that just for no apparent reason will not enter a cage trap. Most times I can see the reason, and most times it is an animal that has been caught and released somewhere else or where a young animal has been rehabbed and turned loose. These animals just plain are cage shy or cage smart. CAGE SHY they flat take off, CAGE SMART they work the cage from the side never going in or going into the trap up to the pan and not going any further. One of the tricks of many I use on smart animals working the outside is simply Flip the trap around 180 degrees so the open door is where the back was. Most times the animal is caught the next time they come to the trap. working on behavior rather than methods. ( working damage gives me the advantage of seeing what one animal is doing, where fur trapping I see many and can't tell what each one is doing) Every trap I have tested has had high readings, so in theory by flipping the trap around and the field is the issue, then the same behavior should be seen just on the other side. So I believe that on cage smart animals the field is not the issue. With that being said, I still have to answer the TRAP SHY question, why do a few animals take off as soon as the trap is set there set or closed????? or why do they eat the little bean size baits outside the trap yet never enter the trap?????? Up until now, I have always believed it is catch and release and still believe it as a rule. But maybe just maybe on some, it could be the field. I do a lot of beaver control work, why do most beaver go right into that killer, yet that one beaver sprung the trap? Does chance or hesitation cause the miss????? If hesitation why did it hesitate when the rest didn't????? I know and I agree that when I am fur trapping I am thinking too much and yes when I am fur trapping that is my time to get away from the stress and pressures of my business. So who cares, leave for seed. But in my business, IF I CANT CATCH THAT CRITTER OR MAKE IT LEAVE I don't get paid and MRS Jones reminds me the bills have to be paid LOL
I am also going to do some testing with buried springs for the coyotes and fox. (I can't possess foot traps in NJ or I would use a welded open trap) Springs seem to have a high reading, so these springs or any metal that has a higher reading than the surrounding area placed in front of a dirt hole or flat set should give me the same as a trap.
I am supposed to be giving a cage trap demo at the PA. convention this June if it is still going to happen. And if I find positive to this theory then I will give Kirk a node, if I am still in the air I won't say anything. I do believe in some situations he may be on to something, but also there are many reasons why animals react negatively and the better we are as trappers and outdoorsmen the more we realize this.
On a side note, I bury DP traps in pockets and dirt holes in my advanced DP systems. I find that just sticking the trap in the ground the standard way (KISS) the fox and coyotes tend not to work at getting the meat or bait out of the trap when exposed (KISS) yet when I bury in a bank or ground they dig the same trap out and try to get the bait out. Just something to think about. By the way, Bob Noonan asked me if I stay up all night thinking about this stuff LOL I laughed and said no just all day every day LOL
Sorry for the book but I needed a reason not to go out in the rain and check jobs yet so I wasted time here LOL
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: Artrapper16]
#6856509
04/27/20 09:48 AM
04/27/20 09:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830 Wisconsin
The Beav
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830
Wisconsin
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When It comes to dirt sets I believe that the animal Is SET shy not TRAP shy.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: Artrapper16]
#6856515
04/27/20 09:57 AM
04/27/20 09:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,591 SW Pa
Bob Jameson
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,591
SW Pa
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MnCedar has summed up my thoughts and opinion fairly well. There is no doubt regarding some animals abilities under certain circumstances to avoid and sense certain things that may be seen and unseen. Whether it is thru smell and or a magnetic field detection of an object. These circumstances do occur and I have seen it in varying degrees over the years. For as long as I have been trapping I have seen and experienced my share of situations. For the most part there aren't many animals that cant be caught one way or another in time. Being an intelligent species as we are that gives us the ability to over come most any circumstance we are presented with in time. It becomes a situation that we learn from when we do succeed. That's what makes trapping so rewarding for those of us that have been at it for the long haul. If it was all so easy most would loose interest pretty quick I would reason. It presents constant challenges and keeps us thinking as to how we can improve our skills. I have found several ways in dealing with what I perceived is an animal smelling or detecting my trap at a particular set or location. It definitely was smelling or sensing something it couldn't see since the trap was buried in most cases. One situation was remedied by grating a piece of dry cow dung chip over the set area which in my mind disrupted its ability to determine the exact position of the bedded trap. In a couple days I had caught the fox doing the frequent digging at the set. I never had a problem in the area again with diggers. I have caught many fox in that pasture over the years. Red and Grey fox. After that experience I have always carried a bucket of shredded dry cow chips for blending into my set dirt at times to give me what I had learned was a valuable tool to use when I felt it was needed. The next situation was another fox set sitting in a harvested corn field with some still standing corn in an area that was somehow missed during the harvest. These types of locations provided interest for hunting fox so they always got a couple sets back in those days. Had one trap that was set off every few days and some bait pulled out of the hole and wasn't sure what was firing it. I hadn't caught anything there for a while and it had been very wet and rainy during this time frame. I couldn't see the set from the road due to the standing corn which is why I chose the location. I didn't carry any equipment or dirt into the location for this check. Once again the trap was fired and the bait pulled out. I did reset the trap back as best I could under the muddy conditions and it certainly wasn't what I would call a good finished set. With no dry dirt, only mud and clay chunks lying around I pondered what to cover the trap with. I looked around and found a few leaves blown in the area of the set and found some weedy grass growing sparsely close by and pulled it up for trap cover. I torn the grass and leaves apart and blended the trap as best I could with the cover available. Not having high expectations for this set I returned the next day to find a grey fox jumping at that set. Who would have figured that would produce. A set made like a first time trapper had set it. The trap was somewhat visible after my feeble attempt to cover it but it was left as good enough. I will continue to catch animals with the equipment I have and make the adjustments as needed to continue to be successful. Understanding animal behavior and using the many tools that we have will give us many options to match wits with the most seasoned animals out there. Interesting information has been discussed and somewhat evaluated now it is up to each of us to decide how and if it will be utilized in a productive manner along the way.
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: Artrapper16]
#6856595
04/27/20 11:56 AM
04/27/20 11:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302 S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302
S/W Wisconsin
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From what I have seen I'm certain that coyotes get location shy when they see another that's caught and are in distress. I think you can place the exact same set some distance away and start making catches again. I think other animals react the same way.
Life member, NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever. WTA,TTA,FTA,SA,GOA, member
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: rpmartin]
#6856613
04/27/20 12:09 PM
04/27/20 12:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,785 Georgia
Kirk De
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,785
Georgia
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From what I have seen I'm certain that coyotes get location shy when they see another that's caught and are in distress. I think you can place the exact same set some distance away and start making catches again. I think other animals react the same way. I thought the same for many years. Then I tested as explained in the previous threads several times.
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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps
[Re: rpmartin]
#6856620
04/27/20 12:14 PM
04/27/20 12:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,785 Georgia
Kirk De
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,785
Georgia
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From what I have seen I'm certain that coyotes get location shy when they see another that's caught and are in distress. I think you can place the exact same set some distance away and start making catches again. I think other animals react the same way. You’re right it does exist. It’s just another way to determine what you need to do and to eliminate more questions.
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