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Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6959914
08/10/20 09:47 AM
08/10/20 09:47 AM
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TownsendTraps Offline
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Joe great questions.

1) All of these factors you mentioned are important (along with others such as outside temperature, water temperature, etc.) . And with each one, it can play more of a factor at times than others. Trappers use a variety of methods to reduce the detection of their traps. Magnetic fields can also play a part within your trapping strategy. One example is that the direction of the earth's magnetic field is not quite true north to south but actually a few degrees west of true north (Magnetic North) and if you are able to orient your cage in this direction the fields inside the cage will usually reduce more than an east to west orientation, which in turn further reduces the animals detection . That isn't always practical but you can begin to see that using a magnetic field reduction strategy doesn't have to be a separate strategy but an addition to your existing strategy.
2) Our traps do well in both urban and rural environments. For instance we have caught red fox, coon, and possum right behind our shop and I am in the city. As far as structures go most are grounded by code for one and secondly the fields that radiate from these things like my metal shop only extend a foot or two away and then the readings go back to nominal. So even in an urban environment the magnetic field isn't saturated by buildings.
3) Depending on where you live the magnetic field intensity outside is close to 50 uT. So this is an animals normal. I just went to one of our traps and the intensity reduces through the trap all the way to the wire triggers to about 25 uT. 50% reduction. Once the animal gets to our triggers less than 1.4 seconds later he is trapped. The point is to eliminate any reason for the animal to reject your trap and let the trap do it's job.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6960673
08/11/20 12:57 AM
08/11/20 12:57 AM
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Posts: 209
Lakes Region Indiana
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loosanarrow Offline
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loosanarrow  Offline
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Well this was discussed a while back and at that time I slapped a powerful neodymium magnet (or two) on every single one of my cage traps. Now all of my cages make the iPhone Tesla app go CWAZY!
No change that I notice, other than off the scale readings of the iPhone app. Still catching critters in them same as before. Cameras show no more hesitation or avoidance than before the magnets.
I shared some other observations in that earlier thread, specifically that I tried repelling beaver with BIG magnets at dams and culverts. Camera video showed no difference in beaver activity, one beaver even carried a big magnet on dry land and deposited it on a pile of mud and sticks and rocks on top of a culvert pipe and covered it with more mud like any old rock.
These are just my personal observations, I offer them for consideration and interpretation . They are not controlled experiments, but they have me leaning more and more toward being skeptical of the suggestion that magnetism of trapping devices makes any difference one way or the other. Those who feel it makes a difference, (Or those who don’t) grab some magnets and trail cam shooting video and your iPhone with Tesla app and make some observations. Fair warning though, in the end I found it to be a waste of my time.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6960897
08/11/20 09:51 AM
08/11/20 09:51 AM
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Posts: 22
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TownsendTraps Offline
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Loosanarrow, I'm sorry you wasted your time because your experiment is not at all what we are talking about. Yes your app will go nuts if you put it over a magnet just as it designed to do. We are trying to reduce that intensity not increase it. The trap itself is not magnetized. Again the point it to reduce rejections of your trap which is ONE of the benefits of our traps. The others being carbon steel construction, stainless steel springs and a closure rate of less than 1.4 seconds when tripped, very versatile and is able to be used in many many ways (Even if you don't believe in magnetic fields), you will get your animal.

I would just add that if your beaver took the magnetic and covered it with mud it sounds like it was bothering him and he found a useful way to shield himself from it.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961065
08/11/20 01:46 PM
08/11/20 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 249
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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Jim Comstock  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
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New York
I used to work the carnival. What is being passed off as knowledge is an "alibi" joint, nothing more. The magnets lit up the app, but didn't bother the beaver, simple. It was pointed out that increased magnetics did not result in refusals, which means there would be no reason to decrease it or worry about it in the first place. Both odor and a visuals that are out of the ordinary to the animal, out in the open, are far more detrimental to catching. I would suggest that this "versatile" trap being advertised is far less than what it is. Doors that stick up 3 feet, a trap that can not be put into a 2 foot culvert or even a 30 inch culvert, can't even be hidden in shallow water, like a foot deep and can be readily viewed by both man and beast and are not the hot set up by any stretch in any kind of trapping, ADC or fur trapping. Try a monster trap like that in freezing conditions, nope, frozen solid. I don't want anyone knowing what I am doing when I am trapping, not that there is anything to hide that is inappropriate, but antis are out there everywhere looking for trouble. Don't need the hassle. I like to slip in quietly trap under water and under the radar, out of sight, using traps in an out of the way spot with lure where people can walk by and never have a clue about what is going on right beside them. Additionally, setting a "come steal me" trap with high doors sticking up like a flag in the open with a live beaver is a second no-no. Like a conibear or a foothold on a slide, I want a beaver in a cage that is deceased and out of sight so as not to draw attention, a big plus. Having a large beaver banging around in a cage trap on land or in shallow water making waves for all to see, not good.

Last edited by Jim Comstock; 08/11/20 03:30 PM. Reason: mistakes, needed to add a little
Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961148
08/11/20 03:52 PM
08/11/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,017
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Well said Mr. Comstock.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961276
08/11/20 05:40 PM
08/11/20 05:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 419
Schenectady, NY
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EatenByLimestone Offline
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Schenectady, NY
1.4 seconds is a long close time.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961330
08/11/20 06:40 PM
08/11/20 06:40 PM
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TownsendTraps Offline
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EatenByLimestone you can see the video on our website on how quick our trap is. It is better than 1.4 seconds but I am a little gun shy at Comstock stoking lies about our product and then having his chorus of "yes Jim" follow up. Jim you must not have read loosanarrow post, the magnetic bothered the beaver so much he buried it.

Jim our trap has as much a chance of freezing solid as yours, heck you haven't even seen or touched our trap.

Check out these videos put out by people that are reviewing HECS suits with similar technology to see how animals react. https://shootingmystery.com/hecs-hunting-suit-really-work/. https://www.outdoorapprentice.com/hecs-suit-review/

Jim we get you don't like Kirk and have no understanding of science so please stop talking about our product. The comment about you being professional about made me snort coffee through my nose. All you have done through this entire thread is bash our product and business without providing one shred of intellectual evidence about what we are doing. If you wanted a real conversation (to which i am not convinced you did), then it could have gone in an entirely different direction. You began with character defamation alluding to us selling untruths (without providing any evidence) and attacking our motives (You don't know me from Adam). I'm not sure how I could have taken you any different. If you don't believe or don't care, why are you bothering. The truth lies somewhere around you don't like competition and for some reason it bothers you for Kirk to be in business.

We make a very versitle (our trap can work on land and doesn't have to be underneath the water), robust, quick trap (with reduced magnetic field) that are very successful in catching animals. PERIOD!

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961378
08/11/20 07:24 PM
08/11/20 07:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 249
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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Jim Comstock  Offline
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Posts: 249
New York
I have seen the traps in question or close facsimiles thereof, all the same except for extra parts, for the better part of ten years, very limited in scope and function, the reason I do build them or use them in any of my ADC work. I rarely if ever have requests for them. When I explain the limited nature of a device, not the limited nature of an individual or company, I am just stating fact about the mechanics, period. Chop a hole in the ice and place a tall g door trap, like the one in question, in 16 inches of water for beaver, FROZEN SOLID. What is so darned difficult to understand about a tall trap that is 3 feet tall freezing in shallow water? We have ice here, you don't. I know ice very well. A 12 inch tall trap will work in 16 inches of water under ice. I do it all the time. A tall trap won't. This is not personal, just factual. There are more versatile traps that will work right side up and upside down as well as sideways. Fact. A g door trap will not. A powered door trap made as a rectangle then becomes a trap of two sizes to work in both wide and narrow runs. A g door trap will not. Maybe someone could supply a photo of a 3 foot tall trap in a 2 foot high tube. Under brush a g door trap can get hung up and foul in sticks and leaves. What I point out are merely comparisons between devices that allow everyone to understand obvious differences. I did build one g door trap a number of years ago that is unique, but to date I have not used it or seen the need for it.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961439
08/11/20 08:15 PM
08/11/20 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,491
WA
Vinke Offline
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Vinke  Offline
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I never got a response.....

1 can alignment of a trap within the polarity create a lower reading?
2 is density a factor in mitigation?
3 are we only worried about natural accruing EMF?
4 how is you trap CONSTRUCTION mitigating this?


Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: loosanarrow] #6961585
08/11/20 10:05 PM
08/11/20 10:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 171
Canada
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Urbancoon Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted by loosanarrow
...one beaver even carried a big magnet on dry land and deposited it on a pile of mud and sticks and rocks on top of a culvert pipe and covered it with more mud like any old rock....


We don't know if the beaver was collecting rocks or the magnet was bothering him. To suggest that it was the magnetism, is misleading. And this is also the reason properly conducted experiments need to be done, otherwise non-related events can easily be called evidence.

No one is doubting that the traps catch animals. Obviously they are. How much better, is the question.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: Urbancoon] #6961718
08/12/20 01:39 AM
08/12/20 01:39 AM
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Posts: 209
Lakes Region Indiana
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loosanarrow Offline
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Lakes Region Indiana
[/quote]

We don't know if the beaver was collecting rocks or the magnet was bothering him. To suggest that it was the magnetism, is misleading. And this is also the reason properly conducted experiments need to be done, otherwise non-related events can easily be called evidence.

No one is doubting that the traps catch animals. Obviously they are. How much better, is the question.[/quote]

Wait, did I suggest that it was the magnetism “bothering” the beaver? If I did, let me clarify.

The beaver was clearly bothered by water leaking through the customers culvert pipe. The beaver plugged that culvert. The magnet was beside the culvert (one of several I placed under video surveillance). After the beaver plugged the culvert, it apparently decided to drag sticks, mud, and rocks on top of the culvert to further bury the offending pipe. One of the items the beaver carried up and deposited was a several pound neodymium magnet that the beaver carried up, placed on the mound, and then the beaver went down and gathered more sticks, rocks, and mud, dragged it all up and continued to bury the pipe. It did not treat the magnet any different than any of the rocks it brought up. It appeared to be just another rock to the beaver. The magnetic field of the magnet did not seem to affect the beaver at all.

All of that said, I do agree that to settle the matter would take carefully designed and executed blind observations with controls. But all of THAT said, I’m not doing them. I’ve seen enough. Strong magnetic fields have failed to have an observable effect on beaver activity in my limited, simple observations. Take that or leave it, I don’t really care. I’m just sharing some of my observations. They may mean nothing relevant to trapping, you decide.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961752
08/12/20 06:38 AM
08/12/20 06:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 178
Ontario
K
Kermit Offline
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Kermit  Offline
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Posts: 178
Ontario
I have advanced traps. Good traps. If Kirk can make them better, he will. He is intense. You cannot see hydro, but you do not stick a knife in a wall outlet

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: Vinke] #6961757
08/12/20 06:45 AM
08/12/20 06:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 166
Wisconsin
Cysquatch Offline
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Cysquatch  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 166
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Vinke
I never got a response.....

1 can alignment of a trap within the polarity create a lower reading?
2 is density a factor in mitigation?
3 are we only worried about natural accruing EMF?
4 how is you trap CONSTRUCTION mitigating this?


I asked plenty of questions, and it all lead to "you can buy my book" its just a sales pitch

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: Jim Comstock] #6961885
08/12/20 09:07 AM
08/12/20 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 723
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
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AirportTrapper  Offline
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Posts: 723
Louisiana
Originally Posted by Jim Comstock
I have seen the traps in question or close facsimiles thereof, all the same except for extra parts, for the better part of ten years, very limited in scope and function, the reason I do build them or use them in any of my ADC work. I rarely if ever have requests for them. When I explain the limited nature of a device, not the limited nature of an individual or company, I am just stating fact about the mechanics, period. Chop a hole in the ice and place a tall g door trap, like the one in question, in 16 inches of water for beaver, FROZEN SOLID. What is so darned difficult to understand about a tall trap that is 3 feet tall freezing in shallow water? We have ice here, you don't. I know ice very well. A 12 inch tall trap will work in 16 inches of water under ice. I do it all the time. A tall trap won't. This is not personal, just factual. There are more versatile traps that will work right side up and upside down as well as sideways. Fact. A g door trap will not. A powered door trap made as a rectangle then becomes a trap of two sizes to work in both wide and narrow runs. A g door trap will not. Maybe someone could supply a photo of a 3 foot tall trap in a 2 foot high tube. Under brush a g door trap can get hung up and foul in sticks and leaves. What I point out are merely comparisons between devices that allow everyone to understand obvious differences. I did build one g door trap a number of years ago that is unique, but to date I have not used it or seen the need for it.



I use my g door trap in every way you mention. His trap on its side is the almost the same size as your beaver trap . Not all of Kirk's traps are g doors anyway. Its like you are just grasping at straws trying to knock the traps that are better than yours. I have run them both, side by side in an unbiased setting to get an idea of which one to purchase.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: Cysquatch] #6961906
08/12/20 09:42 AM
08/12/20 09:42 AM
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Posts: 22
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TownsendTraps Offline
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Vinke,
I replied with plenty of information to this.
Alignment of a trap along the lines on the earth's magnetic field (Mag N to Mag S) will result in lower readings. We are not talking about EMF. Look up faraday cage.

Cysquatch,
I guess you give away all of your work for free, don't charge any customers?

Loosanarrow,
I agree with your experiment you cannot say one way or the other. So it was misleading to say for sure that magnet didn't affect the beaver.

Jim,
First it was magic, then elixir, then is wasn't altruism, then snake oil. I call it slander. Even in a passive aggressive way. I guess you just forgot all of those posts.

If you want to use our traps good (you'll be glad you did). I know that when some trappers start using them they will be their trap of choice.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961908
08/12/20 09:43 AM
08/12/20 09:43 AM
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TownsendTraps Offline
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Thanks AirportTrapper! Well said.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961915
08/12/20 09:52 AM
08/12/20 09:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 249
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
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Posts: 249
New York
Urbancoon and loosanarrow are on target. Noteworthy, not only is the new team in this thread selling a book promoting the idea that magnetism is something of a real and major concern for cage trappers, but conveniently they are also selling a cage trap to go along with the book that solves a problem of their creation that appears at this point to be non existent or is of little consequence, like loosanarrow and others have said. Interesting, the book sellers in a recent post omitted what was at the heart of loosanarrow's post, leaving out what was most important. (just watching a doe and fawn in the front yard, hope they stay out of the garden) loosanarrow clearly stated, with regard to the increased magnetism created from the addition of neodymium magnets to his cage traps, which were recorded on his phone, in his limited testing, "No change that I notice...Still catching critters in them same as before," which flies in the face of what is being advanced as indisputable science. When an animal is faced with a decision to enter a large, an out of place, foreign, metal box, i.e. a cage trap, and does not, I guess you'd have to be an animal mind reader to know if it was stale bait, bait the animal didn't like, the idea of seeing and entering something unnatural or some sort of invisible, odorless, magnetic field that was the primary deterrent. From loosanarrow's brief experiment it looks like the latter was not the issue. Additionally, we have found over the years that most people looking at new products are persuaded most by third parties, independent people who use new products, like the products and share their experiences. Sure, I'm more than a little passionate about anything to do with trapping and happy to share my own experiences with what I have created or how we use our cage traps, but I often say, "don't listen to me, listen to those who are using the products to see what they say," which takes a lot of time to establish.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961943
08/12/20 10:43 AM
08/12/20 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 178
Ontario
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Kermit Offline
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Ontario
I listen to and pay attention to less than 5 % of posters on here. Those posters have given me years of experience,and shortened my learning curve. Airport trapper is one I listen to. Tks to them for their contribution.

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: WileyKiller] #6961962
08/12/20 11:14 AM
08/12/20 11:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,330
mequon, wisconsin
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Paul Winkelmann Offline
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I agree Kermit. This is not my first choice in sites for picking up new and helpful information. And I don't think we have to worry about Mr. Comstock selling his product. We have 50 or more Comstock double doors and they always seem to be set some place when you need one!

Re: Magnetic field in cage traps help me Kirk [Re: loosanarrow] #6962099
08/12/20 02:24 PM
08/12/20 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 171
Canada
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Urbancoon Offline
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Originally Posted by urbancoon


We don't know if the beaver was collecting rocks or the magnet was bothering him. To suggest that it was the magnetism, is misleading. And this is also the reason properly conducted experiments need to be done, otherwise non-related events can easily be called evidence.

No one is doubting that the traps catch animals. Obviously they are. How much better, is the question.


Originally Posted by loosanarrow
Wait, did I suggest that it was the magnetism “bothering” the beaver? If I did, let me clarify.


My apologies for not being clear, loosanarrow. I should have included TownsendTraps message where he suggested that the beaver was bothered by the magnet, and therefore buried it. I was just pointing out that the beaver deposited it onto a pile of rocks, which doesn't mean the beaver was bothered by the magnet as the beaver was already creating a pile.

I was not implying that you were suggesting that the beaver was bothered by it.

What I was trying to demonstrate is how bias works: It is easy to see evidence for things where no real evidence exists. You mentioned that the beaver buried the magnet, and someone tries to make it evidence that the beaver was bothered by the magnetism when it could have been something completely different.

Again, apologies for being unclear.

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