I think you are right Gary Benson

Good to know the communist manifesto is dead. You tend to view things you don't believe as wild scenarios, without much wiggle room. Perhaps there are differing views on certain subjects, yes?

Looking at the candidates they run, there's not much difference between a democrat and a libertarian. Just less authoritarian. That's why I say there's alot of confused socialists in the libertarian party. About as far into the beliefs of libertarians they get is legalizing drugs

As far as God goes. Yes, I do believe in a Creator, but if we're going to be saved, it will be after death. There's some very bad people doing some very bad things to innocent people, and there's nothing stopping them. Reward after death but things will get worse before things get better.

Of course I think things I don't believe are not real. Same as every one on the planet.

If you take a look at communist countries the leaders are not communists. They live a life far removed from their communist subjects. They have property and wealth. The workers absolutely are exploited while being constantly bombarded with the evils of capitalism.

There are always people who want to be Emperor. They use a different word as their title but it doesn't change what their goals are. Would be Emperor's are not confined to using Marxism to reach their goal either.

If your going to stand up to something you need to see the real picture. Not live in a fantasy world.

Here let me assist your knowledge of world history. You're making me cut and paste what your high school teacher didn't cover in class (or you weren't in class when they did); The communists had already come to this shore - and would infiltrate - as they did in both rising powers (USA and Russia). Great Britain and Germany were the world leaders in the late 1800's. The Bolsheviks would capture Russia in 1917, and would impact American politics more than people realize.

Google search on Europe: "Marxism subsequently gained a widespread following across much of Europe and throughout the late 1800s its militant supporters were instrumental in a number of failed revolutions on that continent. During the same era, there was also a proliferation of communist parties which rejected armed revolution, but embraced the Marxist ideal of collective property and a classless society."

Cato institute on socialism in America;
"One of the pervasive myths about the United States is that it has never had a socialist movement comparable to other industrialized nations. Yet in the early 20th century a vibrant Socialist Party and socialist movement flourished in the United States. Created in 1901, the Socialist Party of America unsurprisingly declared its primary goal to be the collectivization of the means of production. Yet the party’s highly decentralized and democratic structure enabled it to adapt to the needs and cultures of diverse constituencies in different regions of the country. Among those attracted to the movement in its heyday were immigrant and native-born workers and their families, tenant farmers, middle-class intellectuals, socially conscious millionaires, urban reformers, and feminists. Party platforms regularly included the reform interests of these groups as well as the long-term goal of eradicating capitalism. By 1912, the Socialist Party boasted an impressive record of electoral successes at the local, state, and national levels. U.S. Socialists could also point with pride to over three hundred English and foreign-language Socialist periodicals, some with subscription rates that rivaled those of the major urban daily newspapers"

danny, I realize that you like to "see" your knowledge, and yes, I admit, these are but brief clips from historical databases, (you can dive deeper just about anywhere and learn much more). But, here we read, that he bolsheviks realized in the late 1800's that America was growing and needed to have some operatives here asap.

They are still here. I stand by my first comments.

Blessings,
Mark

Well

When the 3 founders Stood up and publicly said "we are marxist" I guess a Guy has to put weight in That.

As far as libertarian beliefs : 3 of those beliefs would preclude my becoming a member.

Hang em' High disbelief is one,

If society can be a crime, it kinda shoots the whole philosophy down the tube

I see bad behavior by cops rising at the same rate as bad behavior by the public. Cops wear the uniform and are held to a higher standard, but they have the same tolerance as everyone else. At some point enough is enough. They're still human.

True

Your apologetic has been fixed. I don't believe as you do, thus it can't be everyone on the planet.

I think the question was.......can society be a victim.

Once there are no more police/justice system the vacuum will be filled by well organized local warlords meting out their own form of justice thru their footsoldiers.
These people already exist underground and will pop up quickly and violently fighting for turf with others of the same ilk.

I guess I need to learn to communicate better.

When someone says they are a Marxist to get people to follow them doesn't mean they themselves are Marxists. WHEN THEY GET CONTROL THEY OBTAIN WEALTH AND PROPERTY. SOMETHING MARXISTS DO NOT DO. They are lying to get people to do their bidding.

Marxists had about as much influence at the end of the 19th century as Libertarians do today.

The U.S. was not seen as a world power till after WWI.

The people burning and stealing and defacing may indeed have Marxists ideologies whether they ever heard of Karl Marx or not.

The people in the background, pulling the strings, want total control of all wealth and property. They have no interest in Karl Marx other than using his ideas to get others to do their bidding. When they say they are Marxists they are lying to get followers.

Yup...just like the good old days. History is fixin to repeat itself.

Ima big time small L libertarian, and that do any sound like any libertarian proposal I've ever heard. I have a general mistrust of police as a whole, but I don't want to defend them.at all. I just think they need to be held accountable when they do something wrong (which is not nearly as often as those on the left would like to think), and i want to see them respect constitutional rights.

I think maybe the guy you were talking to was either yanking your chain or more likely do any really know what a libertarian is. Perhaps he thinks he's a libertarian just because he do any like cops.

Conservativism is much more aligned than with libertarianism than liberalism is.

My statement stands as I wrote it.

You did communicate this better. Marxism is the national control of means of production and wealth, so we may be saying the same thing? You paint the portrait of a string puller than wants power and property, and wealth at a national level, but are you saying that isn't marxism? No interest in Karl Marx?

That is Marxism. So I don't folla? (like that captain from the movie Jaws always said).

Help me understand these string pullers.

Well......


I believe you don't believe anybody.

Doesn't matter what ideology you have, the end result of any such revolutions that the leaders be one the wealthy and the ones with the power. No ideology can overcome human nature. It's why you always hearr the rebuttal to communism/socialism always fails is that it was never done right. It's never done right because it's not possible because of the human element.