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Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: WiscoNate] #6994709
09/19/20 04:57 PM
09/19/20 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,694
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Offline
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Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by WiscoNate
Seems like some people are a little confused. There's a difference between libertarians and Libertarians. Just like there's a difference between republicans and Republicans. And between democrats and Democrats. Punctuation helps.

If you ask me there is no form of government that works. That's why I'm an anarchist by default. I will be the first to concede that anarchy has it's problems as well, but at least one can try to take care of those problems on one's own, rather than trying to solve problems with heavy-handed government interference.



There is no confusion. There's all kinds of factions within each party. You have in Libertarian the people that just want drugs,the Jefferson classical liberals, etc. Republicans you have conservatives, chamber of commerce , military hawks, teddy roosevelt types,, erc

Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: danny clifton] #6994775
09/19/20 06:43 PM
09/19/20 06:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,518
PA
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PAskinner Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,518
PA
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I guess I need to learn to communicate better.

When someone says they are a Marxist to get people to follow them doesn't mean they themselves are Marxists. WHEN THEY GET CONTROL THEY OBTAIN WEALTH AND PROPERTY. SOMETHING MARXISTS DO NOT DO. They are lying to get people to do their bidding.

Marxists had about as much influence at the end of the 19th century as Libertarians do today.

The U.S. was not seen as a world power till after WWI.

The people burning and stealing and defacing may indeed have Marxists ideologies whether they ever heard of Karl Marx or not.

The people in the background, pulling the strings, want total control of all wealth and property. They have no interest in Karl Marx other than using his ideas to get others to do their bidding. When they say they are Marxists they are lying to get followers.

I agree. But isn't that how it's always worked in Communist countries?


Right now Iím having amnesia and dťjŗ vu at the same time. I think Iíve forgotten this before.
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6994789
09/19/20 07:02 PM
09/19/20 07:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,070
IA
T
teepee2 Offline
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teepee2  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,070
IA
How can one persons ideology, that has been proven to fail in all trials, still get a foot hold so many years later. One more crusade is all we need.

Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6994790
09/19/20 07:04 PM
09/19/20 07:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 34,326
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
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330-Trapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 34,326
Minnesota
No one wants Government
But all seem to enjoy the benefits of our military security in our Great Country!


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: WiscoNate] #6994802
09/19/20 07:12 PM
09/19/20 07:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
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Mark June  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Originally Posted by WiscoNate
Seems like some people are a little confused. There's a difference between libertarians and Libertarians. Just like there's a difference between republicans and Republicans. And between democrats and Democrats. Punctuation helps.

If you ask me there is no form of government that works. That's why I'm an anarchist by default. I will be the first to concede that anarchy has it's problems as well, but at least one can try to take care of those problems on one's own, rather than trying to solve problems with heavy-handed government interference.


I'm curious WiscoNate, what precipitated you to land on anarchist as your philosophy? Is it the tradition of the slogan, "No god. No master?" Or you just "wish" there wasn't any hierarchy in state or religious affairs of any kind?

Marx was a governing board member in his region for the Anarchy Council in the 1860's as I recall. People throughout history have ALWAYS cried out for a ruler, mainly to protect them from the next bunch over the hill, not so much because folks like to be ruled.

Curious as to how you landed on your philosophy?

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host - 2021 is booked



Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: SNIPERB🦝] #6994836
09/19/20 07:31 PM
09/19/20 07:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,125
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
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Mike in A-town  Offline
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Posts: 8,125
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by SNIPERB🦝
Too many libertarians are confused socialists.


That's odd... Most of the libertarians I've spoken to believe that the only way to cure a communist/socialist/Marxist is to throw them out of high flying helicopters... A position I heartily agree with. You don't even have to feel bad because by their own definition they aren't humans... Just a member of the collective. Like an insect.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6994851
09/19/20 07:50 PM
09/19/20 07:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
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Mark June  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
I find most of us hold pretty firm views on societal philosophy, so it's difficult to discuss. Logical fact checkers over here, and emotional moral warriors over there, and so on. One thing is sure. The push to have our next generation of workers trained, like no generation before, almost universally in the university setting, has changed the culture of debate. I don't think they teach critical thinking anymore?

But, we live in the best time by any major measure, in human history.
Thank you Lord.
We pray it continues.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host - 2021 is booked



Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6994854
09/19/20 07:58 PM
09/19/20 07:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Defund the police? The 300 are ready.

[Linked Image]


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host - 2021 is booked



Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6995158
09/20/20 06:52 AM
09/20/20 06:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 75
Pa.
MadTrapper375 Offline
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MadTrapper375  Offline
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Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Youíre delusional.

Prove me wrong.

Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: MadTrapper375] #6995164
09/20/20 07:03 AM
09/20/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,120
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,120
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by MadTrapper375
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Youíre delusional.

Prove me wrong.


You want the official list of former police officers in currently in jail or the list of dead ones that werenít paranoid enough?

Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 09/20/20 07:05 AM.


-Goofy-
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6995168
09/20/20 07:12 AM
09/20/20 07:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,120
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,120
Eastern Shore of Maryland
The police arenít called for cake and ice cream at birthday parties. They are called when there is a conflict. To train them to not be suspicious will put a lot more in body bags. Defunding wonít be an issue then because there wonít be anybody that will want to be one.



-Goofy-
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6995170
09/20/20 07:15 AM
09/20/20 07:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,120
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,120
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Donít think so? How many women have been killed because they allowed themselves to be in a bad situation because they were taught to be suspicious is makes you a bad person.



-Goofy-
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6995202
09/20/20 07:58 AM
09/20/20 07:58 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,567
michigan,USA
S
seniortrap Offline
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michigan,USA
Unfortunately a few Republicans/Democrats see the monetary benefit of becoming a government for the government by way of the people!


Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6995350
09/20/20 11:46 AM
09/20/20 11:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 75
Pa.
MadTrapper375 Offline
trapper
MadTrapper375  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 75
Pa.
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
The police arenít called for cake and ice cream at birthday parties. They are called when there is a conflict. To train them to not be suspicious will put a lot more in body bags. Defunding wonít be an issue then because there wonít be anybody that will want to be one.

I think you may want to read my original post that said cops need to be held responsible if they break the law like the rest of the citizens. And I stand by that. And as far as the cops having such a dangerous job, maybe you need to look up the numbers. Cops are not even in the top 10. As for defunding, read my original post.

Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Mark June] #6995408
09/20/20 01:04 PM
09/20/20 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 151
Nekoosa, WI
W
WiscoNate Offline
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WiscoNate  Offline
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 151
Nekoosa, WI
Originally Posted by Mark June
Originally Posted by WiscoNate
Seems like some people are a little confused. There's a difference between libertarians and Libertarians. Just like there's a difference between republicans and Republicans. And between democrats and Democrats. Punctuation helps.

If you ask me there is no form of government that works. That's why I'm an anarchist by default. I will be the first to concede that anarchy has it's problems as well, but at least one can try to take care of those problems on one's own, rather than trying to solve problems with heavy-handed government interference.


I'm curious WiscoNate, what precipitated you to land on anarchist as your philosophy? Is it the tradition of the slogan, "No god. No master?" Or you just "wish" there wasn't any hierarchy in state or religious affairs of any kind?

Marx was a governing board member in his region for the Anarchy Council in the 1860's as I recall. People throughout history have ALWAYS cried out for a ruler, mainly to protect them from the next bunch over the hill, not so much because folks like to be ruled.

Curious as to how you landed on your philosophy?

Blessings,
Mark


Pretty simple, Mark. I've watched a constitutional republic crumbling my entire life. It doesn't work. I don't believe there is a better government system out there than a constitutional republic, and since it's a failure I find government might as well not exist at all. I don't believe that any form of government would work under the immoral population of the U.S. today.

I do have a master, but no man is my master. We are all born with the free will to embrace that or not, and accept the consequences of our decisions.

I don't know what an Anarchy Council is, but is sounds oxymoronic. Might it perhaps have been some Orwellian type DoubleSpeak? People who want to bring down the system to create their own are not anarchists. I suspect that would be why Marx would be involved in such things.

You're right about people always wanting a ruler. People like authority in human form. Someone to tell them what to do is all well and good until things go too far south. Even when things are terrible people have a tendency to cling to the shreds of the structure they're a slave to. Israel wanted a king, even though they already had one. Kings in human form only help for a short period of time at best, and are quite often tyrants.

I am trying not to keep my feet in two worlds, and this one isn't all that important to me.

Hope that helps.


Taxation is theft.

Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Trap_Hunt_Fish] #6995470
09/20/20 03:14 PM
09/20/20 03:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 173
Winona MN
B
Birdman382 Offline
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Birdman382  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 173
Winona MN
Yes rioting is not covered as well as terriosim is not covered. Read your policy.

Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Birdman382] #6995475
09/20/20 03:20 PM
09/20/20 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,840
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline OP
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Pike River  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,840
Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Birdman382
Yes rioting is not covered as well as terriosim is not covered. Read your policy.

Those are typically covered but yes.... Please read your policy for the fine print.

Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6995783
09/20/20 10:00 PM
09/20/20 10:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
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Mark June  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,903
La Vernia & Dallas TX
WiscoNate,
Well stated. True, Israel did in fact get their first king of their united Monarchy in Saul, when God instructed Samuel to get on in there and anoint him... for the people grumble. The people's choice award! Never works it seems. So I follow your apologetic.

But here we are in 2020 trying to honor as best we can the instructs that the Son of God gave to his disciples, prayerfully doing our best, with what we have, where we are, with what we've got... as you say, with two feet in two different worlds. But I encourage to not forsake the widows, and orphans, and lesser among us, because hard hearts are not honoring to the One who gave all so that we may have two worlds as a wondrous option.
I know you know that full well. Just being Barnabas with a bit of "encouragement" brother!
Until the trumpets sound.

Thanks for the post!
Blessings,


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host - 2021 is booked



Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Mark June] #6996773
09/21/20 09:32 PM
09/21/20 09:32 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 151
Nekoosa, WI
W
WiscoNate Offline
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 151
Nekoosa, WI
Mark,

Just wanted to say that government is about the last place I would take a widow or orphan to help them! I believe Reagan said that the nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

My heart isn't as hard as you may think, I just believe that government has a tendency to create problems rather than provide solutions. Even their programs to help the needy (I use that term loosely) tend to promote dependency on government, rather than personal responsibility and self-reliance. The problem with government is that it always wants to grow. If people aren't paying attention or are apathetic it gets too big to contain. That's where we are today, and I believe in the near future there will be a global reset.

But that doesn't mean I'm bummed. I enjoy life. I spend a lot of time outdoors. I have a great family. My job is tolerable. From the standpoint of being comfortable and having access to knowledge, my life is better than any king's 200+ years ago. There is much to celebrate, especially when one gets away from the artificial world. So I find myself withdrawing from it. I quit watch sports years ago, and am really glad I did. I pay attention to current events to a lesser degree than I ever have in my adult life, and I'm liking that as well. I'm not ignorant to the political circus, yet I'm not invested in it. Other than pointing out hypocrisy, and sometimes debating philosophical issues.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Thanks for the great conversation, and for seeking understanding rather than immediately condemning my position.


Taxation is theft.

Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
Re: Defund the Police - Libertarian Dream [Re: Pike River] #6996857
09/22/20 01:13 AM
09/22/20 01:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,603
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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williamsburg ks
The way our system is set up widows dont get much help and orphans get tossed into the foster care system if they have no family to take them in.

Protect your wife with some life insurance.

Protect your kids by finding them godparents before a tragedy strikes.

Our welfare system is designed to reward irresponsible behavior.

Ending welfare will not stop people from voluntarily giving aid to widows and orphans.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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