I was looking through the manual for the PA pellet rifle by traditions. it might be an affordable serviceable flinter.

anyway in the question is . I thought I recall hearing that PA prohibited the use of sabots for the Flinter season.

which I found it odd that the Flinter bearing the name PA pellet rifle supposedly a flinter that can take pyrodex pellets which I due understand use a kicker charge of black powder to get them lie the irony of that , well.

the manual does not mention a single load not using a sabot and also mentions nothing about real black powder only black powder substitutes like pyrodex and 777.

it's no wonder people new to muzzle loading are so confused the manual actually feeds dis-information

Cleaning your muzzleloader is one of the most important details of
muzzleloading. This step is crucial to maintaining proper function and
a lasting life of your muzzleloader. Black powder is highly corrosive
material and can rust or ruin a muzzleloader as quick as overnight so
you must clean it after each use. Pyrodex powder has been designed to
be less corrosive than Black powder and has been proven to need less
cleaning between shots than black powder. You must swab the bore
between each shot when using Black powder.

Pyrodex is no less corrosive many see it as more corrosive , I think just today I heard it called rust in a can

from the poor grammer of the Traditions manual and that claim it makes me wonder if the author actually have ever used pyrodex or was just buying marketing hype.

Pyrodex fouls less than black powder, so you can get a couple more shots between swabbing, but like you mentioned it definitely is not less corrosive.

Haven't flintlock hunted in decades. I know sabots used to be illegal but I don't know about now. I have a story about this one. There was an EX-Steeler that turned game officer. I think it was Jack Lambert? Anyway, he was supposedly a real piece of work and the badge went straight to his head. He would walk around the woods in flintlock season with a 5 gallon bucket of sand and make you fire into it. (Because most would carry balls but load a sabot.) If he dug out a sabot, you were in big trouble. I don't know if the story is true, I never ran into the guy, but it's interesting and seems like it would be an odd one to dream up.

I'm not sure what your exact question is, but if your asking if sabots are legal in flint lock season, yes.

never under-estimate the ability of PennsylTuckians to invent stories out of whole cloth about the EEEEEVil Game Commission.

personally, I love the one about the PGC stocking rattlesnakes from the air, to lower turkey populations...

For awhile the law was patched round ball. People were having maxi-balls move off the load resulting in the barrel exploding. The law changed back to any around 2000 if I remember right. I know a fella who lost his hand this way.

Flintlock Season - Flintlock-ignition, single-barrel long guns manufactured prior to 1800, or a similar reproduction of an original muzzleloading single-barrel long gun 44 caliber or larger, or 50 caliber or larger handgun, using a single projectile. It is unlawful to use telescopic sights. Late-season flintlock hunters are permitted to take an antlered deer or an antlerless deer anywhere in the state with their unused antlered deer tag.


You can use sabots.

I knew it used to be a round ball only back when I flinted but never knew why. I just figured that they wanted to keep it primitive. I never heard about the exploding barrel thing. Doesn't seem like the charge would be able to do that with a thick flintlock barrel but if you know of someone I guess it's true.

Yep, ya wouldn't think so.

He was a really good dirt track driver, that pretty much ended that but he did drive some after the accident.

I regularly shoot 30 or more shots from my .50 cal flintlock during local club matches using BP and don't clean or swab until after the match. One factor affecting how many shots can be taken without swabbing is what you allow to happen to the fouling in the barrel. The key is to prevent the fouling from being exposed to ambient air by either loading immediately after a shot or by blocking the muzzle with a rag or tompion until you can load. BP fouling when created is soft but not wet and generally will not create a problem. If exposed to humid air it will pick up moisture and turn to sludge, which creates a problem. If exposed to very dry air it will dry out, become very hard (and turn white), which creates a problem. Any experienced flint shooter has seen these effects on the BP residue in the lock area. The same thing happens in the barrel unless you prevent air exposure.

Sure he didn't maybe use smokeless powder instead and just didn't tell anyone of a stupid mistake? Does he seem to be that type of guy?

Oh it’s not just the PGC. Haven’t you heard of all the coyotes with Allstate and Nationwide collars running around eating up the fawns?

Fin, I was checked by him in Armstrong.
He could have had me on something stupid,
instead he "reminded" me.
Gained my respect.
They've all improved IMO.

Yea, I'm not bashing. I'm just repeating a story I heard years ago. In fact, I may have still been in high school. So that would have been the early to mid 80's. I don't really have too many problems with the game commission as far as enforcement. Never have really. Most are pretty good at their jobs. Now, the fish commission is a different story. By the way, was that right? Was it Jack Lambert? I'm sure he is long retired now.

I'm not really buying hippies story though. I'm sure he is not lying and that's the story he was told but it just doesn't add up. Something else went on I think and the guy was maybe to embarrassed to say he did something stupid. Yes, a void between the ball and charge (black powder) will be dangerous and increase pressure. It may even burst the barrel (on a very bad day) but I can't see it blowing the gun up enough that you would lose a hand over it. Anything is possible I suppose but that is not very probable in my view. However, I will admit that I'm far from an authority on the matter.

Yeah that was him in the 80s.
There were stories from the saloon too.
I wasn't present but was told big fun.

I think when we were pups they leaned on us more, we needed that lol.
For some "odd" lol reason my generation was tagged.

Ned Weston was the all time best in my zone.
I learned a ton from him in a time when trapping knowledge was unavailable.
He wanted us to do good.
Could have had me multiple times as a kid, instead, he taught.

I knew you weren't bashing.

yes the question was are sabots now allowed

it sounds like they are now allowed

I use mostly 3Fg and have little issue with the fowling in the barrel , I also wipe between shots so that each is the same.

I really didn't use much Pyrodex before I decided it wasn't for me . and it was years ago so as to the exact amount of fowling I will take your word that it is slightly less

I used 777 more and it may have also been less but not enough less for me that it didn't need the bore swabbed by the 3rd round so if I have to swab any way why not black became my answer..

thanks I am researching for a muzzle loading guide I am writing and thought that the info in the Traditions manual was interesting I had recalled hearing that PA prohibited anything but patched round ball or full bore conical for the flinter season , that obviously changed.

Early on, TC had concerns for plastic sabot usage in their barrels. They did not recommend them. The maxiball concern came from the PGC due to separation issues some were reporting. They were never made illegal due to that reason. The patched roundball requirement came out of the concern that flintlocks were killing too many antlerless deer. "Unregulated doe season". The PRB, and the requirement that anyone purchasing a Flintlock stamp had to turn in their antlerless application came about the same year IIRC.

That is old history and has changed since,

When it was patch and ball, flint, and after Christmas only, it was a blast.
Everyone at once, deer were moving, big fun tradition.
When the changes started, many stopped.
Much like fragmenting all the deer seasons.
Also archery was much less participated then vs now.

When everyone is afield at the same time, deer move.
Fragmented seasons causes nocturnal mature deer.

An observation of experience.
Now for the science of shooting the big and letting runts walk.
And "more opportunity".