Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7203030
03/03/21 02:27 PM
03/03/21 02:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,178 Coldspring Texas
Savell
"Wilbur"
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"Wilbur"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,178
Coldspring Texas
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I read the entire writeup. And offer my opinions from the GW side....
The OP violated two wildlife laws...by his own admission...and is now angry because a game warden did his job and discovered the violations. How do you think a game warden can see if your traps are marked/tagged without disturbing the set? He is allowed by law to do this and to seize traps set in violation. Dont have to return them either as illegally set traps are contraband, not just evidence. But, the OP said the NY GW did return them,and the OP is still unhappy.
The OP also ALLOWED the GW to conduct a consent search at his home and then got irritated because the GW didnt apologize for not finding any more violations. Seriously? THE OP made the choice to allow the warrantless search. The GW did his job by asking for consent. If refused that would have ended that.
The OP also states over and over that his trapping area is the most rural area in half the country then is puzzled why the GW found him and looked at him closer. The OP's sign was the ONLY sign there. It's easy to follow the only sign found. The GW kept looking closer because he found violations the first time he checked the OP. Would any of you do any different if you were a GW? Im gonna check you out if I'm not sure you are legal. Its the job!
All of us, as sportsmen and women, have an obligation to comply with wildlife laws and regs. The courts have ruled time and again that it is in the best interest of wildlife conservation to accept field compliance checks that are slightly more intrusive than what would be allowed at say a traffic stop for traffic violations. Research it if you think Im wrong. Take a look at the open fields doctrine too.
The OP is recreating on public land, but his story reads like he is inside his home. GW dont need probable cause to inspect/enforce wildlife laws in the outdoors, especially on public land. Even on private land reasonable suspicion will start the legal ball rolling. The GWs dont make any laws or set any regs. We do try to use common sense when we can but I see no harrassment here. Just a guy that caught standing a bit short and is irritated that he got caught.
... I wouldn’t plan on moving to Georgia either Joe lol .. the proper thing to say when a Warden ask you what you are doing is “ minding my own business “ then you’ll want point down and say you have a scuff on your boot... when he drops his head to look.... bust him with a lonestar longneck ( hard enough to induce amnesia of course) ... then get on out of there before he comes to... anything less will likely result in a citation for a violation nobody’s ever heard of ... like “looking with the intent to trap” or “unlawful possession of a butterfly”...that’s stuck your truck grill lol ...just kiddin.....lol
Insert profound nonsense here
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7203040
03/03/21 02:32 PM
03/03/21 02:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,979 rogers city mi.
jeff karsten
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,979
rogers city mi.
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No trap tags no gripes Had a CO tear my truck apart when i wasn't around legally parked talkd to him before i seen my truck and a guy with a scanner told me that CO called in my plates even though he knew me and my vehicle he lived next to my FIL and I talked to him several times But he was 1 in about a dozen CO's i've known personally that were fine Men and Ladies and did their Jobs well
olden tyred
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7203041
03/03/21 02:33 PM
03/03/21 02:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498
South Ga - Almost Florida
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A GW inspecting the legality of any trap is not considered "tampering."
I would think a trapper understood this.
But I see that's not the case. Could someone explain how a trap can be inspected for legal requirements (tag/name/lic #/jaw spread/etc without the set being disturbed?
I would like to know this because I can use the info to teach the next class of Ga game wardens in May 2021 how to do it.
Btw, Had to correct a new GW years ago that issued a trapper a written warning for having an untagged trap in his truck. Its not illegal to transport an untagged trap...its illegal to trap with an untagged trap...in Ga anyway. Yep, its a great idea to know the laws no matter which side you're on.
Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 03/03/21 02:43 PM.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7203046
03/03/21 02:37 PM
03/03/21 02:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Savell, Im trying to get a ride-along with TX game wardens in the Coldsprings area. Sorta a state to state familiarity thing..
I'll watch out for the dude holding the beer bottle like a club. He'll get the first one..
Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 03/03/21 02:39 PM.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7203048
03/03/21 02:40 PM
03/03/21 02:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,178 Coldspring Texas
Savell
"Wilbur"
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"Wilbur"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,178
Coldspring Texas
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A GW inspecting the legality of any trap is not considered "tampering."
I would think a trapper understood this.
But I see that's not the case. Could someone explain how a trap can be inspected for legal requirements (tag/name/lic #/jaw spread/etc without the set being disturbed?
I would like to know this because I can use the info to teach the next class of Ga game wardens in May 2021 how to do it.
... what surprised me most about the whole deal was a Game Warden actually got out of the truck and walked more than ten feet from it lol
Insert profound nonsense here
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7203049
03/03/21 02:41 PM
03/03/21 02:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,850 Nevada
nvwrangler
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,850
Nevada
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Swamp , based on my conversation with a local warden they must think that it falls under the reasonable articulate suspension needed prior to disturbing the set. So why do you assume that something is wrong and needs to be inspected not that its correct and there are no violations?
I also believe that someone participating in a legal activity that said activity can't be grounds of suspicion.
Last edited by nvwrangler; 03/03/21 02:43 PM.
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7203050
03/03/21 02:42 PM
03/03/21 02:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,331 Maine, Aroostook
Posco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,331
Maine, Aroostook
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A GW inspecting the legality of any trap is not considered "tampering."
I would think a trapper understood this.
But I see that's not the case. Could someone explain how a trap can be inspected for legal requirements (tag/name/lic #/jaw spread/etc without the set being disturbed?
I would like to know this because I can use the info to teach the next class of Ga game wardens in May 2021 how to do it.
If we tag the poles on our under ice beaver sets the warden doesn't have to disturb the trap to find out who he's dealing with. He's still legally allowed to dig the traps out if he is so inclined. Might be worth asking your warden if a tag displayed above your set would suffice.
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7203053
03/03/21 02:43 PM
03/03/21 02:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,178 Coldspring Texas
Savell
"Wilbur"
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"Wilbur"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,178
Coldspring Texas
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Savell, Im trying to get a ride-along with TX game wardens in the Coldsprings area. Sorta a state to state familiarity thing..
I'll watch out for the dude holding the beer bottle like a club. He'll get the first one.. ... a man already has to carry 2 longnecks down here... the wardens run in male breeding pairs ... I don’t know what they’d think about a third wheel lol
Insert profound nonsense here
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: nvwrangler]
#7203057
03/03/21 02:51 PM
03/03/21 02:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp , based on my conversation with a local warden they must think that it falls under the reasonable articulate suspension needed prior to disturbing the set. So why do you assume that something is wrong and needs to be inspected not that its correct and there are no violations?
I also believe that someone participating in a legal activity that said activity can't be grounds of suspicion. Here in Ga, trapping is considered a commercial activity, requiring a commercial license. Therefore, inspections involving closer scrutiny is permitted. Some states may not be like Ga.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Mike Cope]
#7203058
03/03/21 02:51 PM
03/03/21 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,405 Iowa
~ADC~
The Count
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The Count
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,405
Iowa
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If Tags are a Legal Requirement and You chose not to have them on your set traps you have no defense or excuse for not having them on your trap. You earned that Ticket. Your past experiences/feelings have no impact on the Law.
If it is against the law to set baited body Grip traps and your weasel traps meet the definition of a body grip trap. Which by your description they do....You earned that ticket too...
As far as the harassment part, (Which it sounds like he is doing to me) His defense will be I am checking on a trapper with multiple violations.
You should have made him get a Warrant to look at your stuff. Anything he finds will not help you and can only hurt you. x2
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Savell]
#7203062
03/03/21 02:54 PM
03/03/21 02:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154 Tug Hill, NY
Redknot
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
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A GW inspecting the legality of any trap is not considered "tampering."
I would think a trapper understood this.
But I see that's not the case. Could someone explain how a trap can be inspected for legal requirements (tag/name/lic #/jaw spread/etc without the set being disturbed?
I would like to know this because I can use the info to teach the next class of Ga game wardens in May 2021 how to do it.
... what surprised me most about the whole deal was a Game Warden actually got out of the truck and walked more than ten feet from it lol With the vehicle milage restrictions the Gov has placed on all DEC staff, there is a lot of walking in their futures!!!
Last edited by Redknot; 03/03/21 02:56 PM.
~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Canvasback2]
#7203063
03/03/21 02:55 PM
03/03/21 02:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,850 Nevada
nvwrangler
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,850
Nevada
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Swamp , based on my conversation with a local warden they must think that it falls under the reasonable articulate suspension needed prior to disturbing the set. So why do you assume that something is wrong and needs to be inspected not that its correct and there are no violations?
I also believe that someone participating in a legal activity that said activity can't be grounds of suspicion. Here in Ga, trapping is considered a commercial activity, requiring a commercial license. Therefore, inspections involving closer scrutiny is permitted. Some states may not be like Ga. I understand that point, part of buying the license is that agreement to be inspected. Which is fair . If a Trapper sets out 50 traps for Red Fox, the Game Warden has the right to dig up all 50 traps; to see if they are all legal? Does the Game Warden reset all those traps that they dug up ? How about this question at what point does it cross that line? When done once / or once a week?
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Canvasback2]
#7203065
03/03/21 02:57 PM
03/03/21 02:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498
South Ga - Almost Florida
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If a Trapper sets out 50 traps for Red Fox, the Game Warden has the right to dig up all 50 traps; to see if they are all legal? Does the Game Warden reset all those traps that they dug up ? It is rare that a GW will locate all traps that a trapper has set on a property. We actually do not even attempt to. I usually take a look at one or two. If legal, I'm gone. If not, I tear up a catch circle and conduct surveillance. Once the encounter is made I ask the trapper if others are tagged/legal. There is no need to try and find every trap.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Posco]
#7203068
03/03/21 03:00 PM
03/03/21 03:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498
South Ga - Almost Florida
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A GW inspecting the legality of any trap is not considered "tampering."
I would think a trapper understood this.
But I see that's not the case. Could someone explain how a trap can be inspected for legal requirements (tag/name/lic #/jaw spread/etc without the set being disturbed?
I would like to know this because I can use the info to teach the next class of Ga game wardens in May 2021 how to do it.
If we tag the poles on our under ice beaver sets the warden doesn't have to disturb the trap to find out who he's dealing with. He's still legally allowed to dig the traps out if he is so inclined. Might be worth asking your warden if a tag displayed above your set would suffice. Yes^^^ I see some trappers put tags on the attachment end of extensions cables on body grips, snares and long chain drags, me included. This is perfect. This dont work on staked dirt sets.
Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 03/03/21 03:02 PM.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Savell]
#7203070
03/03/21 03:02 PM
03/03/21 03:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,498
South Ga - Almost Florida
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A GW inspecting the legality of any trap is not considered "tampering."
I would think a trapper understood this.
But I see that's not the case. Could someone explain how a trap can be inspected for legal requirements (tag/name/lic #/jaw spread/etc without the set being disturbed?
I would like to know this because I can use the info to teach the next class of Ga game wardens in May 2021 how to do it.
... what surprised me most about the whole deal was a Game Warden actually got out of the truck and walked more than ten feet from it lol You should stay in Tx. Ga GWs will walk 5 miles to catch outlaws.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7203072
03/03/21 03:02 PM
03/03/21 03:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,600 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,600
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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No question Joe was in violation of the trap tagging requirement in this case.
He should have had two tags on each trap stamped with his NY. State I.D. #
On the body gripping trap violation, with an opening of 3.5" inches, this Ouell trap is obviously a rodent trap with a smaller opening than a marten could concievably be able to enter.
The fact that the trap was baited, and untagged probably contributed to the eliminated any discretion the ENCON officer might have employed in not issuing these citations.
This has a lot to do with DEC Bureau of Wildlife's over jealous protection of the fragmented American Marten population in the central Adirondacks where any trapper who is tagged out on Marten but continues to trap is automatically under suspicion of being a Marten poacher trying to circumvent the marten trapping regulations.
I'm sure that for ENCON officers patrolling in prime marten habitat, this is a point of emphasis with trappers.
The officer in question could have displayed better tact & people management skills with this situation.
I know ENCON officers in my area would have deployed a lot more discretion and tact.
When Trappers are automatically assumed to be guilty by law enforcement, then mistrust by trappers in cooperating with wildlife management agencies is irreparably damaged for good.
The greater good was not served in this case.
Joe Pennati had a target tattooed on his back from the moment he tagged his 6th Adirondack marten and then continued to trap.
All in my opinion.
walleyed
Last edited by walleyed; 03/03/21 03:19 PM.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7203073
03/03/21 03:03 PM
03/03/21 03:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,946 E central Il
Golf ball
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,946
E central Il
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Ok ok wait a minute, did the op state that his traps were un tagged or that they were only numbered ?
Swamp Wolf if you was to pull a trap that I set on private property just to see if I might be illegal I would probably take that personally. If you look in the back of my truck and find all of my unused traps tagged wouldn’t that be a pretty good indication that you don’t need to disturb my set to see if it might be legal ? I mean how hard would it be to figure out when I check my sets and ask to look at the traps I have with me ? You asked for a way to tell if a trap was tagged or not without disturbing the set . What I just said does not do that explicitly, but would give you a pretty good reason to leave or not leave the set alone .
Last edited by Golf ball; 03/03/21 03:04 PM. Reason: Punctuation
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7203074
03/03/21 03:04 PM
03/03/21 03:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,956 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,956
Central, SD
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My issue is the fox talk if it was not in the laws is he making up policy on what he wants done his way?
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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