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Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7203025
03/03/21 02:21 PM
03/03/21 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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The Beav  Offline
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Wisconsin
Pretty much during My live market days when you trying to maintain good feet. And not having the right traps at the time.
But no matter what, pull outs are part of the game and you can't completely rule them out. Murphy's law comes In to play here.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7203288
03/03/21 06:25 PM
03/03/21 06:25 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626
Flint, Michigan
bhugo Offline
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bhugo  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626
Flint, Michigan
Originally Posted by Wvpossum
I had some trail cameras on some of my traps this season and definetly realize now how many deer trip a trap. That said, I remember a couple occasions at least where the trap chain was stretched tight out of the bed. I can't 100% tell you I missed coyotes, but possibly believe I had a few misses. So if a person could dial in a set up where they go from catching 4 out 5 coyotes a season to 5 out 5, wouldn't they want to?

What length of chain are you running?


Member MTPCA, FTA and NTA
Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7203340
03/03/21 06:58 PM
03/03/21 06:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 40
WV
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Wvpossum Offline OP
trapper
Wvpossum  Offline OP
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WV
Its the stock chain length that comes with the mb 550s. Not long. Wolfang anchors until it gets the cable buried.

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204156
03/04/21 10:53 AM
03/04/21 10:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
trapper
rpmartin  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302
S/W Wisconsin
The guy in the video had a perfect opportunity to show how to level the jaws on that trap. Maybe ha has it on another video??

Imo the best way to level the jaws is with a welder placing a small bead on the levers so it pushes the levers down farther to make the trap level. If the weld is too high file or grind it off till your level. [Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Second best is to bend the levers. The problem with twisting the lvers is over time and use the levers can spring back to a point you may have to do it again.


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Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204220
03/04/21 11:53 AM
03/04/21 11:53 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626
Flint, Michigan
bhugo Offline
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bhugo  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626
Flint, Michigan
Originally Posted by Wvpossum
Its the stock chain length that comes with the mb 550s. Not long. Wolfang anchors until it gets the cable buried.

I have not heard anyone say they had to modify stock 550’s besides adjusting pan tension. Maybe adding a shock spring in the chain. I talked to a guy that used to do trap research for the government trappers recently. He mentioned that the spring gave a tiny amount of extra time for the traps to close when a coyote jumps after setting off the trap on a short chain. It was tiny fractions of a second, but he said it made a difference based on high speed films... I use short chains, but have not tested springs on them. I don’t get many pull outs, but occasionally I get a snapped trap I can’t figure out. Maybe I should try inline springs. Mine are usually deer though.

Four coiling and waxing them will also speed them up slightly, but if they are already stiff with 2 coils, id save 4 coiling till last... I don’t use the mb traps, so I do not know how stout they are 2 coiled. I trap in freezing temps so I 4 coil most of my coyote traps that are not already super stout.

You will always have some mysteriously snapped traps. Weird things happen when you set enough traps.


Member MTPCA, FTA and NTA
Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204280
03/04/21 01:27 PM
03/04/21 01:27 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,861
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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Joined: May 2018
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SW Georgia
Limited experience here, but I get to trap about 7 months out of the year. I run stock 2 coiled MB550’s, both offset and regular jaws, with 12” Super Stakes. I’m getting away from the offsets due to foot damage and even trying out some regular jaw 450’s this year.
I don’t trap in snow or even dirt most of the time so tracks are hard to distinguish unless it’s deer.
Yes deer trip traps, and for the fun of it it seems!
I can’t recall but one where I was positive it was a coyote on a pullout. With that being said, are you sure you’re getting pullouts or chew outs? Greys and coons will chew out and you’ll think it’s a pullout, one of the reasons I’m trying the 450’s.
I have held a coyote by one toe before in an offset. Held a bobcat by two toes before. Generally with the 550’s any bigger predator that we have is always there.
While we don’t deal with snow or freezing temps, we do deal with clay. Clay isn’t bad, until it heats up. Those times aren’t pullouts, it’s flat out misses because the trap never fired!! I’ve had to chisel and trap out before. The pan would depress, but the jaws were basically welded open.
What I’ve learned down here is our caught critters will fight a trap when caught, but quickly settle down...until it get daylight. Once that sun comes up and they ain’t home or where they’re supposed to be, then they are heck bent on getting out of the predicament they’re in. I tried checking traps later in the mornings or around lunchtime, but that was resulting in chew outs, but not from coyotes or cats. Those critters would turn to buzzard bait if never checked.
Be sure of what your missing and if it is actually a pullout. A test you can do is snap two fingers in that 550 and see if you can pull them out. I’m betting the trap holds.

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204281
03/04/21 01:29 PM
03/04/21 01:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
Yep a coyotes comes into your set on the crawl and you catch It by leg and you have pull out. You may even have a catch circle But for the most part you won't know what happened.
Just a small chunk of hard dirt or a small pebble caught between the jaw hinges Is going to leave those jaws open a bit. And that for sure Is going to cause a pull out. And that little bit of debris may fall out once the coyote makes it's escape. But you won't know what has happened. And when using offsets you could have a 1" offset and your not going to catch many coyotes If that's the case.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204287
03/04/21 01:33 PM
03/04/21 01:33 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,861
SW Georgia
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SW Georgia
Here’s the one toe catch...
[Linked Image]

Re: Pull Outs [Re: The Beav] #7204290
03/04/21 01:36 PM
03/04/21 01:36 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,861
SW Georgia
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SW Georgia
Originally Posted by The Beav
Yep a coyotes comes into your set on the crawl and you catch It by leg and you have pull out. You may even have a catch circle But for the most part you won't know what happened.
Just a small chunk of hard dirt or a small pebble caught between the jaw hinges Is going to leave those jaws open a bit. And that for sure Is going to cause a pull out. And that little bit of debris may fall out once the coyote makes it's escape. But you won't know what has happened. And when using offsets you could have a 1" offset and your not going to catch many coyotes If that's the case.

Oh, let me clarify, YES by all means I’ve had that happen!! I’ve even had the pebble/stick still in the jaws, lol. I count that as stupidity on my part, not a pullout. The trap does its job if I don’t screw it up somehow.

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204291
03/04/21 01:40 PM
03/04/21 01:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,830
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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Wisconsin
Good thing that that toe was pulled Into the tightness part of the offset. If It would have been dead center you might not have got that picture.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Pull Outs [Re: The Beav] #7204293
03/04/21 01:52 PM
03/04/21 01:52 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,861
SW Georgia
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SW Georgia
Originally Posted by The Beav
Good thing that that toe was pulled Into the tightness part of the offset. If It would have been dead center you might not have got that picture.

No doubt about that, lol.
I will say this, most all of my toe catches have been after rains and traps buried in the dirt. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204366
03/04/21 03:15 PM
03/04/21 03:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,409
Central/Western Texas
AuthorTrapper Offline
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AuthorTrapper  Offline
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Posts: 1,409
Central/Western Texas
Proper guiding is crucial to getting good pad catches!

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204386
03/04/21 03:50 PM
03/04/21 03:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,872
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Central, SD
I set a trap with a tight pan, to tight for my liking but I already had it anchored with a Wolf fang so l left it in. The issue was not would it fire but the catch it made ended up to be higher then I liked it to be. That trap will get adjusted before it goes out next season.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7204996
03/05/21 06:39 AM
03/05/21 06:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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trappergbus Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
I've ran MB550 4 coiled offsets with 18 inches of chain to the anchor for 7 seasons now. Had one pull his toe off out of 300 plus yotes 2 years ago. 2.5 pan tension on all. Zero pullouts, zero! Zero empty sprung traps too except for deer. Witch is a good thing.. Lost one this year in a 650 tho, reason I think any way is the 1/4 inch offset is to big for yotes and the trap was bedded to deep. There's is a huge mechanical advantage to 4 coiling, more even pressure to both jaws, quicker lock up, just to name a couple. I've held a few by the elbow even.

Remember this, paw can't move , paw can't get cut.... as long as the jaws are thick enough to displace the energy and there's no sharp edges with enough power to support that. Trust me, there's a lot more to trap design than most think..


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7205014
03/05/21 07:41 AM
03/05/21 07:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 40
WV
W
Wvpossum Offline OP
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WV
So four coiling seems like one answer. Is there a place for the 650s , duke or mb?

Re: Pull Outs [Re: The Beav] #7205053
03/05/21 08:15 AM
03/05/21 08:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
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rpmartin  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302
S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted by The Beav
Yep a coyotes comes into your set on the crawl and you catch It by leg and you have pull out. You may even have a catch circle But for the most part you won't know what happened.
Just a small chunk of hard dirt or a small pebble caught between the jaw hinges Is going to leave those jaws open a bit. And that for sure Is going to cause a pull out. And that little bit of debris may fall out once the coyote makes it's escape. But you won't know what has happened. And when using offsets you could have a 1" offset and your not going to catch many coyotes If that's the case.



I'm with wanna be on this, what you explained is a lock up failure not a pull out.

Wv, yes almost any trap will work as long as you take the time to set them up right. Remember, it's not the brand of traps your using as much as it the way you set them up.

Also wv you are smart to use good light soil for bedding and covering your trap even if you have to bring it in to the set. These guys bedding their traps in clay gumbo type of soil is asking for trouble. This is a huge deal that doesn't come up very often. It's very refreshing to see you bring this issue up, you are most definitely on the right track. Good luck and thanks for taking the time and asking the questions to get you on the right path. Oh and take anything beav says with a grain of salt!!

Last edited by rpmartin; 03/05/21 10:04 AM.

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Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7205149
03/05/21 09:54 AM
03/05/21 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,124
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Wvpossum
So four coiling seems like one answer. Is there a place for the 650s , duke or mb?

A lot of guys that catch a lot of coyotes run this size of traps. In fact it seems to me the majority of the guys that catch hundreds of coyotes or make their living catching coyotes run 3 size traps. Especially were they just catch coyotes.

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7205156
03/05/21 09:56 AM
03/05/21 09:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,124
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
I always figure a pullout it usually a toe caught animal or material in jaws. A decent trap will hold a coyote with a full pad catch

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7205570
03/05/21 04:31 PM
03/05/21 04:31 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,861
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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SW Georgia
Not an expert videographer, but here’s a video that shows what may produce a toe catch, pullout, or miss. You figure the dirt hole had 4+” of rain on it and a lot of dirt flowed over the trap itself. The feathers were all on the top side so the entire set had flowing/standing water. The first set was initially a true Pipe Dream set, but buried it after the fox was caught. Already went through 3 screens, lol.
https://youtu.be/RavqBapLg_w

Re: Pull Outs [Re: Wvpossum] #7205848
03/05/21 08:43 PM
03/05/21 08:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,302
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
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S/W Wisconsin
You done good. You done real good. The performance of your traps were fine after that much rain. I hope folks can see how much the rain and wet soil slowed those trap just a little and that was light sandy soil. Those traps would catch and hold.
Now try that in clay gumbo heavy soil, you will find the results are lackluster at best unless you have powered up to meet the conditions if that is even possible.
I always like enough chain so the animal can make the initial jump to get the trap dug in on the paw and lock it in place before they start lunging. And making them step between the jaws insread of over them.


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