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Waterbury traps? #7244379
04/15/21 08:48 PM
04/15/21 08:48 PM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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I have 3 Waterbury traps, all no.3's. 2 have pans that are unreadable. The other you can see no.3 in the bottom corners of the pan and it has a forged chain. It could be a patent trap from what I was told. If so, he offered me $40 for that one. (The one pic I have won't upload.) Does this seem fair? I have no clue on the value.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7244574
04/16/21 07:19 AM
04/16/21 07:19 AM
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Posts: 50
Indiana
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bigmac2 Offline
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Indiana
What do you mean by (patent trap) ?

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: bigmac2] #7244701
04/16/21 10:29 AM
04/16/21 10:29 AM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bigmac2
What do you mean by (patent trap) ?

That's what he called it so I don't have a clue. He did say they were the predecessor to the Blake and Lambs.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7244749
04/16/21 11:54 AM
04/16/21 11:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
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S.W. Oregon,USA
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snakecollector Offline
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S.W. Oregon,USA
Waterbury is just an address, Waterbury, Connecticut. That is an early address for Blake & Lamb traps. Some early Blake & Lamb traps have a patent date on the pan, that is likely what he is referring to.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7244752
04/16/21 11:59 AM
04/16/21 11:59 AM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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Is your trap a long spring or an underspring? That will begin to help us. If your trap is a double underspring with the number 3 in both lower corners of the pan(actually stamped in circles) and Waterbury marked on the pan then it is a trap produced late in the 1800s and perhaps into the 1900s. The Patent Traps the person was referring to would likely be the traps marked only Patent April 26 1859(first) or Patent April 26 1859 RI 1878 underspring traps that were produced by Blake Lamb and Co from about 1865 until late in the 1800s that were not marked with a company name or with Waterbury. The long spring traps that were also made by Blake Lamb & Co from about the end of the civil war onward were marked initially with BL&CO Waterbury and later with Blake Lamb Co Waterbury along with size numbers. Good photos of the trap including chain and a close up of the pan would help in determining which trap it might be. Estimating value will be difficult with many variables involved that include scarcity of the particular model and especially condition. As a general rule, the long spring traps are much less common but much more valuable than the underspring traps

added. Dean's post above beat mine and included some of the same information that I posted here.

Last edited by cohunt; 04/16/21 12:10 PM.
Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7244771
04/16/21 12:28 PM
04/16/21 12:28 PM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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They are all undersprings. And I will try and get a few pics later on. But I could not read anything other than no.3 on this particular trap. Plus, it has square pans with no rounding off of the corners, like my other Blake and Lamb undersprings.

Last edited by hogwild; 04/16/21 12:28 PM.
Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7245511
04/17/21 01:48 PM
04/17/21 01:48 PM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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[Linked Image]
This one doesn't have a forged chain but the pan has 2 no.3's on it. And none of my other pics will load.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7245512
04/17/21 01:51 PM
04/17/21 01:51 PM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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The other 2 traps the pans are unreadable and one has a forged chain on it.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7245571
04/17/21 03:47 PM
04/17/21 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,900
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
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Paul Dobbins  Offline
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Goldsboro, North Carolina
You can email the pics to me and I'll post them for you. pdobbins@nc.rr.com



Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7245636
04/17/21 05:26 PM
04/17/21 05:26 PM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
You can email the pics to me and I'll post them for you. pdobbins@nc.rr.com

Thank you!

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7245793
04/17/21 09:14 PM
04/17/21 09:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,900
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7245829
04/17/21 10:28 PM
04/17/21 10:28 PM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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The following comments are my personal opinions and the time estimates especially will be debated by other Blake Lamb collectors. This is about the best I can do in a very brief write up as there is not a lot of documented information on these early Blake Lamb traps.

The trap with the visible 3s on the corners of the pan has a large square pan and is a Blake Lamb & Co double underspring. The trap with the visible 3s was likely manufactured shortly before or after 1900. Slightly earlier versions of the same trap had a narrower pan but had size marks in the corners like the one pictured here. The trap does not have an original chain. The chain appears to be from an Oneida Community underspring trap from the early 1900s. Later traps are marked Blake Lamb & Co Waterbury CT in a single central stamping and were so marked until about 1925. Blake Lamb & Co traps made after 1925 were marked Hawkins Co and had an address of New Britain Conn, had rounder corners on the pan and had the chain attachment point moved from the crosspiece to the end of the trap. All these traps originally had lock link chains. I will attempt to add photos of several examples of the progression of markings in these traps.

The second trap pictured that has the long link chain is also a Blake Lamb & Co double underspring but is an earlier trap and it has the correct chain complete with ring. I compared the photo of the trap with the long link chain with two of my traps from that period and it appears that hogwild's trap is identical to a trap I have that is stamped Pat April 26 1859 RI 1878 in two circles toward the two ends of the pan with No 3 in the center of each circle(RI stands for reissued which signifies that the 1859 patent had expired and was issued again in 1878--this perhaps actually may not have happened but was just an advertising ploy). The trap was likely made in the late 1870s or early 1880s. If the trap was made much later than the early or mid 1880s, it would not still have a long link chain as Blake Lamb & Co began using lock link machine chains well before 1900, especially on smaller traps. The rivets that hold the pan on are at and above center of the pan. An earlier trap in my collection has the rivets equally straddling the centerline of the pan and that trap is stamped just Pat April 26 1859 in arches towards the two ends of the pan with just a 3 stamped above each of those arched markings. This trap is I believe the earliest of the marked Blake Lamb & Co traps as it has a single sided pan post that mounts the pan shank. That post was weak so broke easily and was replaced with the double sided post seen on the later trap. When I have sunlight tomorrow morning I will attempt to get good photos of some early Patent date traps to add to this thread.

After hogwild corrected me that the first several photos are all from a single trap I modified my comments to make them less confusing.

Last edited by cohunt; 04/18/21 11:27 AM.
Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7245890
04/18/21 03:53 AM
04/18/21 03:53 AM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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Cohunt,
Only 2 traps are pictured. One has the the no.3's on it, the other has the forged chain. What about the value of both? And thanks for all of your info. Never would have thought they were possibly this old.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246011
04/18/21 09:48 AM
04/18/21 09:48 AM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


This first set of 5 photos show a trap that is very similar to hogwild's first trap where one can read the 3s. These traps were made similarily in sizes 2, 3 and 4 with only the size number changing. Early 2 size traps were first marked 2 1/2 and that was changed to 2 when the 1 1/2 size was added in the late 1800s.The trap I picture is a 2 size that was marked 2 1/2 and then had the 1/2 removed at the factory. This version is the first of the Blake Lamb & Co traps to have the company name and manufacture location marked on the pan.

The second trap pictured is the next version which has just a single central stamping rather than at the two ends of the pan and the last two photos are of later traps that illustrate the Hawkins traps made after about 1925.

Last edited by cohunt; 04/18/21 10:30 AM.
Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246022
04/18/21 10:08 AM
04/18/21 10:08 AM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

This set of pictures shows a trap that I think is the same as hogwild's trap with the long link chain. The markings on the pan have just patent information. The last photo shows the revised two sided pan post.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246032
04/18/21 10:34 AM
04/18/21 10:34 AM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

These two photos are of a very early Blake Lamb Co N0 3 size trap that has the arched Pat 1859 and the size number stamped near each end of the pan and also shows the first one sided pan post that was later revised.

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246053
04/18/21 11:09 AM
04/18/21 11:09 AM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

These six photos are of size 2(marked 2 1/2), 3 and 4 very early Blake Lamb & Co double underspring traps that have arched Pat April 26 1859 markings and one sided pan posts. I think that these are examples of the earliest marked undersprings made by Blake Lamb & Co that follow the 1859 patent and date to perhaps 1865 or very shortly thereafter. Blake DID make some VERY rare traps earlier but those traps were different from the 1859 traps. Smaller traps marked 0, 1 and 2 were made that have just a single underspring and the progression of markings of those traps was the same as the larger sized traps shown in the three sets of photos above. The smaller traps generally have the same types of chains as do the larger traps although my personal collection would indicate that chain on the smaller traps was converted to lock link machine chain earlier than occurred on the larger traps.

Last edited by cohunt; 04/18/21 11:54 AM.
Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246104
04/18/21 12:18 PM
04/18/21 12:18 PM
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Waldo, OH
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hogwild Offline OP
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Very interesting info Cohunt. You have some really nice collectors there. What are yours worth? And, also, what value do mine have?

Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246119
04/18/21 12:56 PM
04/18/21 12:56 PM
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revillo, sd
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cohunt Offline
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Really hard to put values on these traps. They have fewer collectors than Newhouse traps and thus have lower values as well. I have paid hundreds of dollars each for many of my nicer examples. I have a 2 1/4 size single spring trap with heavy cast jaws that probably would exceed 500 dollars by quite a lot and the extra nice very early 1859 patent traps should be quite valuable as well. The problem with most of the earlier Blake traps is that they are in poor condition from long use. Most were used in water sets and they have weathered over their many years of use and those traps have quite small collector value . Some collectors are satisfied to possess an example of a scarce old trap and do not require a high quality example but they generally will only pay a small price for that example.

Now for your traps. Some time ago I estimated a price in response to a question similar to yours and my estimate set off a firestorm of criticism from folks who thought that I was much to low while several others stated with certainty that there was no way to establish a value at all unless the trap could be examined in more detail and that my price was too high from what they could see in the pics available. No way to win that one. For your traps, because the pans cannot be read, the first two traps have minimal or no collector value. Traps of that era need to be in quite good condition with readable pans to bring even 50.00. Your old trap also has been weathered to a point that the pan cannot be read BUT it clearly is a collectible example. I would value the chain as worth 40.00 as a useable part and would think the entire trap is worth about 50.00 TO A COLLECTOR who wanted it. I am quite sure that others will disagree.

Last edited by cohunt; 04/18/21 01:34 PM.
Re: Waterbury traps? [Re: hogwild] #7246134
04/18/21 01:40 PM
04/18/21 01:40 PM
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South Dakota
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Trapper Pete Offline
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Jim, Thanks for the pictures and the knowledge you shared on your Blake & Lambs.

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